The fairness of the ticket allocation system

Flukey

It was request that such a thread should be started in the buying and selling thread. It is a couple of years out of date, but here is how the 2011 tickets were allocated. It would not have changed much since. The figures in brackets were the changes from 2010.

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County allocations: 58,401 (-604)
Provinces: 335 (-50)
Overseas: 470 (-29)
Central Council and former Presidents: 798 (-107)

Camogie: 120
Ladies’ football: 150
Rounders and handball: 147 (-15)

Sponsors: 935 (-35)
Press: 254
TV and radio: 74

Schools and educational bodies: 2,229
3rd Level: 240 (-38)

Croke Park residents: 250
Match officials and national referees’ panel: 103 (-5)
Irish Sports Council and health bodies: 60 (-10)
Match day / Vertigo / minor teams: 148 (-52)
GAA staff and sub-committees: 718 (-93)
Jubilee teams: 68 (-69)
Mini-sevens: 244 (-2)

Term tickets: 4,144 (-11)
Season tickets: 1,884 (+1,120)

Total available for distribution: 71,772

Premium and corporate seating*: 10,528

Total capacity (as per planning permission): 82,300

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That is how the tickets are allocated, but tickets normally do filter down to the people who want them. I personally have got tickets from some of the more unusual of the defined categories on occasions. For this year, I am sorted for the Football, being a Parnell Pass holder, but I am still looking for one for tomorrow. My club got 4 tickets. Members will be trying to source others, and I am hoping to get one. If not, I'll head into town in the morning.

Being a Dub, I am not from one of the competing counties, but I still want to be there. It is my passion. Ignoring children, there will be people at the match tomorrow that have been in Croke Park less times in their life than I have been this year. That's 17 times, so far. I am one of those people that goes to any match in Croke Park, no matter who is playing, because I am interested in the matches. So it is not just Dublin game I go to. I also go to other matches around the country when I can. You'll have all seen those two television ads showing matches and saying how good it is to be there. 8 matches are featured, I was at 7 of them, including the 1994 Connacht final that Leitrim won. It was the Munster Hurling one that I missed.

Anyway, fans from competing counties deserve tickets, but for the ones that are only going to their first match of the year in September having had not the slightest bit of interest all year, it does seem a bit unfair. There is 82,300 places in Croke Park, which is less than those that want to go and those that deserve to go. No system is fair. No system will satisfy everyone, no matter how we debate it. The amount of "deserving fans" will always be more than 82,300. So we have to live with the system and as I said earlier, the tickets normally do filter down to people that deserve them and the majority that will be there tomorrow will deserve their ticket. Hopefully I will get mine.

m0ynihan

Personally I'm not a fan of the system, IMO about 10000 tickets should be on general sale for each competing county at the county ground, about this many are given away to people anyway by people who know people in the GAA. Yes people who've been to every match this year should get a ticket, and season ticket holders etc. but if I'm not part of a GAA club why should I be unable to get a ticket and be forced to pay 150 for a ticket off some tout outside the stadium?

nice_guy80

I'm glad you have to be a member of the GAA to get ticket through a club.
GAA members up and down the country have a right to go to finals too.

However, an awful lot of people get tickets through the non county allocations who have never been to a game all year. Which is wrong, but how do you stop it?

StupidLikeAFox

m0ynihan wrote: »

..... but if I'm not part of a GAA club why should I be unable to get a ticket and be forced to pay 150 for a ticket off some tout outside the stadium?

I think the point of it is to reward those who put more time and effort into the GAA - lots of voluntary people working at grassroots level in clubs would be more deserving of it tbh (no offence )

dirkmeister

Generally everyone who wants to go to the games ends up getting a ticket.
It's the same every year.

I think the current system is the best, club members should be looked after first.

mikemac1

What are the vertigo tickets?

That just jumped out to me

I know what vertigo is and I've been to the upper tier of the Cusack.

If you tell a steward you feel dizzy are there seats reserved on the lower level for people like you?

Lumbo

dirkmeister wrote: »

Generally everyone who wants to go to the games ends up getting a ticket.
It's the same every year.

I think the current system is the best, club members should be looked after first.

I didn't in 2011 and this year might end up buying off a tout , in 2011 I refused to pay €120 for a Hill ticket. A lot of my match going friends are in the same situation.

I know a season ticket is a solution but its not suitable for me.

Diabhal Beag

GAA try to look after people who contribute to clubs or regularly go to matches and that's fair. They also have to cover various aspects such as player's tickets, handball, sponsors for example. With that it's probably very tough to add in general sales, which touts would eat up anyways. If you badly want a ticket you have to work hard to get one, and that weeds out a good chunk of sunshine supporters. No matter what system is used though there'll always be complaints.

Always_Running

dirkmeister wrote: »

Generally everyone who wants to go to the games ends up getting a ticket.
It's the same every year.

I think the current system is the best, club members should be looked after first.

Thats a myth.

You really think when looking at above allocations that 60k plus only generally want to go? Croke park would have be to twice the size to cater for that.

ProudDUB

mikemac1 wrote: »

What are the vertigo tickets?

That just jumped out to me

I know what vertigo is and I've been to the upper tier of the Cusack.

If you tell a steward you feel dizzy are there seats reserved on the lower level for people like you?

Yep, there are special seats reserved for vertigo suffers. I don't think they are on the lower level of the Cusack stand. I think that they are just further down in the Upper Cusack from the nose bleed seats. I hear that the view from them is intentionally crap to deter people from trying to pull a fast one. I'd be a fan of not giving those tickets to people in the first place, unless they know ahead of time that they are very high up & they are ok with it. Coz if you just give them out willy nilly & people can't sit in them, and they are then just empty, that is a terrible shame imo.

I'd be a big fan of allocating a small amount of tickets to each participating county that you can queue up for the day before the match. This could take care of die hard fans who go to every single game, but are are not affiliated with a club. There are some people out there who are rabid fans of their county team & who go to all their games. But due to their being born with 2 left feet and having the athletic ability of a potted plant (like me ) they have never played games at any organized level, or belonged to a club. I don't think that they should be left out in the cold.

Put the tickets on sale at the county ground the day before the final. If you have to queue up the entire night before, then so be it. You are a die hard fan so what do you care? Bring in some sort of system whereby you are given a plastic wrist band to wear. If you aren't wearing the wrist band on the day of the final, you don't get in. This would go a long way to stopping the touts from sending in people to queue up for the tickets that they will then sell on to the highest bidder on AI final day.

dirkmeister

Always_Running wrote: »

Thats a myth.

You really think when looking at above allocations that 60k plus only generally want to go? Croke park would have be to twice the size to cater for that.

Yes, I do.
Maybe not for the football but it's definitely the case with the hurling.

There is always a surplus of tickets floating around Dublin on the Sunday.

ProudDUB

Always_Running wrote: »

Thats a myth.

You really think when looking at above allocations that 60k plus only generally want to go? Croke park would have be to twice the size to cater for that.

It really is a myth. Cork has a population of what...500,000 people? Dublin's is 1.25 million. That is nearly 2 million people, nearly half the population of the entire country. Granted there is no way that all of them are die hard GAA fans (especially in Dublin) but even if 10% of them were, that is still way, way, way over anything that Croke Park is able to accommodate, and still keep everyone happy. I know that not every county has as big a population as Cork and Dublin do, but God help us all if Dublin and Cork ever meet in an AI final.

Diabhal Beag

ProudDUB wrote: »

Put the tickets on sale at the county ground the day before the final. If you have to queue up the entire night before, then so be it. You are a die hard fan so what do you care? Bring in some sort of system whereby you are given a plastic wrist band to wear. If you aren't wearing the wrist band on the day of the final, you don't get in. This would go a long way to stopping the touts from sending in people to queue up for the tickets that they will then sell on to the highest bidder on AI final day.

A lot of touts would be willing to camp out overnight for tickets. No way to ensure diehards get them from general sales.

ProudDUB

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

A lot of touts would be willing to camp out overnight for tickets. No way to ensure diehards get them from general sales.

I know. I meant that you are given the plastic wrist band to wear at point of sale. You put it on then. If you aren't wearing it the next day at Croke Park, you don't get in. End of story. Hard to see how a tout could get around that.

ardmacha

More could be done about tickets, although season tickets and the like have improved things.

- restrict finals to GAA members, don't sell membership after July.
- in this day and age iuse IT to record membership numbers against ticket allocations, if you have two contributions (say club member and teacher training team) then you still only get one ticket, but you would get a better seat.

Western Pomise

Surely Central council could cut out touts access to tickets on a no of ways,one bring that if someone buys ticket at over the odds before a game they can go watch game,enjoy it,but be encouraged to contact Croke Pk after and say how much they overpaid for ticket and give seat location
Croke Pk could then trace who sold the ticket to tout and ban them from ever getting a club ticket again etc.

Realt Dearg Sec

Western Pomise wrote: »

Surely Central council could cut out touts access to tickets on a no of ways,one bring that if someone buys ticket at over the odds before a game they can go watch game,enjoy it,but be encouraged to contact Croke Pk after and say how much they overpaid for ticket and give seat location
Croke Pk could then trace who sold the ticket to tout and ban them from ever getting a club ticket again etc.

They already do this, our club rickets have our club name written on them and they have a record of what club got the ticket. If ours are found to gave been touted they can be traced. How vigilant they are is another matter but the system is in place anyway

Ace2007

on the ticket front - I noticed this earlier on

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/63504/win-all-ireland-football-final-tickets-

Basically club in Galway raffling the ticket allocation they got - 30 tickets

Ace2007

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

A lot of touts would be willing to camp out overnight for tickets. No way to ensure diehards get them from general sales.

The Parnell Pass is by far the easies way for touts to get their hands on tickets, I was shocked to see an individual can buy up to 6 tickets on one go.

Rockfish

Western Pomise wrote: »

Surely Central council could cut out touts access to tickets on a no of ways,one bring that if someone buys ticket at over the odds before a game they can go watch game,enjoy it,but be encouraged to contact Croke Pk after and say how much they overpaid for ticket and give seat location
Croke Pk could then trace who sold the ticket to tout and ban them from ever getting a club ticket again etc.

I remember as far back as 1989 someone i knew very well was high up in the co board told me every ticket could be traced to whoever bought it.

I was a block booker with the FAI for a number of years and about ten years ago, i gave a mate my ticket to a match to try and sell in Dublin as i couldn't go. He sold it for face value but about a fortnight later i received a letter from the FAI telling me someone had purchased my ticket from a tout for over the face price and i had to write a letter outlining who i gave my ticket to etc etc or i would lose my block booking status. Thankfully it didnt come to that and they accepted my explanation.

Obviously whoever ended up with my ticket went to the trouble of forwarding details to the FAI and fair play to them for acting on it.

Coillte_Bhoy

Ace2007 wrote: »

on the ticket front - I noticed this earlier on

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/63504/win-all-ireland-football-final-tickets-

Basically club in Galway raffling the ticket allocation they got - 30 tickets

Thats the Galway football board not a club is it not?

Most clubs do something similar

Dirty Dingus McGee

Lumbo wrote: »

I didn't in 2011 and this year might end up buying off a tout , in 2011 I refused to pay €120 for a Hill ticket. A lot of my match going friends are in the same situation.

I know a season ticket is a solution but its not suitable for me.

why is season ticket not suitable.It isn't hugely expensive and guarantees you an all ireland final ticket if your county gets there.Seeing as the teams that were in all ireland finals in 2011 are regulars at that stage of the championship a season ticket seems like a good investment if it guarantees an all ireland final ticket.

Ace2007

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Thats the Galway football board not a club is it not?

Most clubs do something similar

I can understand a club doing it, esp when more people want tickets than available, but sure I could buy a ticket for the raffle above and have no connection with Galway. Not really fair, if no one wants the tickets they should just be sent back or to a county that does?

Fr Tod Umptious

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

why is season ticket not suitable.It isn't hugely expensive and guarantees you an all ireland final ticket if your county gets there.Seeing as you sound like a Dub it seems a fairly sensible investment to make.

You have to attend 60% of games to get a final ticket.

I got to most Mayo championship games but I don't have a season ticket because realistically I can only make it to two or three league games and I don't have a easy way to get the card to someone who may be traveling to all games to scan it for me

Fr Tod Umptious

ProudDUB wrote: »

.........This could take care of die hard fans who go to every single game.......... There are some people out there who are rabid fans of their county team & who go to all their games.

Die hard fans who go to every single games will have a season ticket with 100% attendance, they will be sorted for a final ticket

ProudDUB

Rockfish wrote: »

Obviously whoever ended up with my ticket went to the trouble of forwarding details to the FAI and fair play to them for acting on it.

In fairness, I'd have more respect for him if he just took down the tickets details from the tout & kept on walking. Buying a ticket from the tout at an inflated price, then going in to enjoy the event, only to rat the original tickets owner out to the FAI later on, strikes me as a tad two faced. It also perpetuates the continuation of ongoing business model that the ticket tout is running in the first place.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Die hard fans who go to every single games will have a season ticket with 100% attendance, they will be sorted for a final ticket

Yes, they are, but not everyone is in a position to attend every single game. As much as they may want to, sometimes work, family, lack of money etc gets in the way. I don't think that those people should be completely ignored. Take someone from Tyrone for example. They would have had to do A LOT of very expensive traveling all over the country (including 3 trips to Dublin alone) on their way to an AI final, if they made it that far. There would be plenty of die hard fans in Tyrone who would not have been able to make it to every single game, even if they did have a season ticket. I don't think that putting 1000 tickets on sale at the county ground to cater for people like that would do anyone any harm.

Rockfish

ProudDUB wrote: »

In fairness, I'd have more respect for him if he just took down the tickets details from the tout & kept on walking. Buying a ticket from the tout at an inflated price, then going in to enjoy the event, only to rat the original tickets owner out to the FAI later on, strikes me as a tad two faced. It also perpetuates the continuation of ongoing business model that the ticket tout is running in the first place.

What? So he should have asked the tout to show him the ticket and then write down the details???? Cop on. Obviously what happened was a tout bought the ticket and it was sold on for a profit, lad that bought it obviously was prepared to pay for it and the n reported to the FAI, and rightly so. I dint felel used in any way

Rockfish

[QUOTE=ProudDUB;86428411 I don't think that putting 1000 tickets on sale at the county ground to cater for people like that would do anyone any harm.[/QUOTE]

In principle yes, but in practice how would that work?

Flukey

Ace2007 wrote: »

The Parnell Pass is by far the easies way for touts to get their hands on tickets, I was shocked to see an individual can buy up to 6 tickets on one go.

Not so. A Parnell Pass holder is guaranteed one ticket that they can buy for a championship match. In the ticket office in Dorset Street there is a window for Parnell Pass holders to buy their match tickets and there are other windows for other people. The reverse of what you say is actually the case. The Parnell Pass holder who has proven their commitment by buying the pass (€165 - Stand / €135 - Terrace) can buy just one ticket and can't get any for family or friends to sit with them, whereas a couple of windows down anyone can come in and buy up to 6 tickets. If a Parnell Pass holder wants extra tickets they can't get them through having their pass. They have to queue up at the other windows, like everyone else.

The Parnell Pass is of course useless today, because Dublin are not in the final. However, today is Christmas Day for Hurling fans and I am happy to say that Santa came to me last night and I have a ticket. Being a Parnell Pass holder I know that I will have my present for the Christmas Day that is coming in two weeks time.

Ace2007

Flukey wrote: »

Not so. A Parnell Pass holder is guaranteed one ticket that they can buy for a championship match. In the ticket office in Dorset Street there is a window for Parnell Pass holders to buy their match tickets and there are other windows for other people. The reverse of what you say is actually the case. The Parnell Pass holder who has proven their commitment by buying the pass (€165 - Stand / €135 - Terrace) can buy just one ticket and can't get any for family or friends to sit with them, whereas a couple of windows down anyone can come in and buy up to 6 tickets. If a Parnell Pass holder wants extra tickets they can't get them through having their pass. They have to queue up at the other windows, like everyone else.

The Parnell Pass is of course useless today, because Dublin are not in the final. However, today is Christmas Day for Hurling fans and I am happy to say that Santa came to me last night and I have a ticket. Being a Parnell Pass holder I know that I will have my present for the Christmas Day that is coming in two weeks time.

If I buy 6 Parnell passes I'm entitled to 6 tickets, I could then easily sell then on and make profit - explain to me how that is not easy for a tout????

Also what commitment are you on about, Dublin reach final- touts buy tickets easy - no risk just reward

ProudDUB

Rockfish wrote: »

In principle yes, but in practice how would that work?

Put 1000 tickets for sale the day before the game at the game at the county ground of the two participating finalists. One ticket per person. No exceptions. Give everyone a numbered plastic wrist band to wear. You put it on there and then. If you aren't wearing the wrist band the next day at Croke Park, you don't get in. Publicize the crap out of this policy so that there is no whinging the next day if people can't get in with their 'my dog ate my wrist band' sob stories. It may seem overly complicated & draconian, but once people know about the policy and get used to it, what could go wrong? I've seen something like this work in the US at some concert venues where they wanted to make sure that their high demand tickets ended up in the hands of true fans and not touts. It worked really well.

Rockfish wrote: »

What? So he should have asked the tout to show him the ticket and then write down the details???? Cop on.

No cop on needed at all. Who is going to cough up big bucks for an All Ireland final ticket, without asking to see it first? At the quarter final, I was looking for a ticket for a friend. A man outside the ticket office was offloading a ticket that he didn't need at face value. I was interested in it in case it was better than what I could get inside at the ticket window. He said that it was a great seat in the lower Hogan. I asked to see it for myself to verify that it was as good as he said it was. It wasn't, it was in the nosebleed section in the Upper Hogan, so I thanked him for his time and kept on walking. Don't see how someone couldn't do the same thing with a tout.