C200 Versus E200 Advice

p.sheridan

Advice needed please. I am looking at buying an 2002/03/04 merc. the tax is around 636 on the 03 e200 models. what is the difference in a c200 and e200. i have seen a c200 which has a 1.8 petrol engine and all leather electrics etc so cant figure what extra would be in the e200.
Also any other general advice appreciated. I wont be doing huge milage so fuel economy not a huge issue for me, i want a bit of luxury and reliability. My wife drives the family car(08 Qashqai) and i drive a van for work, so its for drives at the weekends etc. if the c180 and c200 and e200 have the same engine its a bit confusing for me.
Thanks

MuppetCheck

They are two different cars. The C-class is a smaller car than the E-class. It all depends if you want a bit more space or not really.

After that it comes down to spec levels - classic is the most basic, elegance is the highest basic spec and avantgarde is similar to elegance spec but with a few different items. Supposedly a more sporty spec but that term would be used loosely.

p.sheridan

ok cool, so the e class is bigger and has more room. I suppose this makes it a bit harder on juice if the same enging moving a bigger car but I can cope with that a bit more room will suit fine.

ofcork

Keep in mind some are supercharged others are not also mercs of that era have a few quality issues.

p.sheridan

Thanks of Cork. I know there are a few risks and the cost of fixing on a merc will be 3 times that of a corolla or avensis but i will only buy something with a service record. I have a couple of months before i need it. Do you know if there are any particular things that were common things i should look out for ?

coylemj

That vintage (2002/03/04) E200 is known as the 'pre-facelift' model. The W211 as it's known got a facelift in 2006 which involved a lot of changes, the biggest one was that a problematic hybrid braking system (Sensotronic) was replaced with an all hydraulic system. If I was you I'd avoid the E200 from those years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W211#2006.E2.80.932009_.28Mid-generational_refresh.29

Starting in late 2006, the newer (facelift) models can be recognised primarily by the different rear light cluster which has a large white (clear) middle as shown below, the pre-facelift rear cluster had a red strip across the middle.

p.sheridan

07 or later totally out of my price league I'm shopping with about 4k + a bit to do a few jobs. so brakes are the bug

coylemj

p.sheridan wrote: »

07 or later totally out of my price league I'm shopping with about 4k + a bit to do a few jobs. so brakes are the bug

For that money I'd stick to a C180. An E200 for 4K would be a crock just waiting to bite you with expensive repairs. It will either be very old or will have high mileage and probably be due a new timing chain.

lomb

The E is a better car by far. The interior on the E is leagues ahead for a start. Im sure there are very good E200s from say 2004 out there. After all they were 60k cars 9 years ago which isnt that long ago. Youll need to budget for a timing chain and suspension components. If you keep looking you might get a well maintained one with receipts especially a one or two owner car as they were bought by well off types that could afford money no object servicing.

p.sheridan

Thats exactly what I thought Lomb. Some owners would have had no bother maintaining this status of car.
1 question. Are the timing chains only in the diesel ones ?
I' looking at something like this
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-e-200-leather-auto-04-nct-mint/5629631

p.sheridan

This car has a service historl also and looks well looked after. at this money if you had to spend 1500 on it you still have a serious car

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/04-mercedes-benz-e200-elegance-auto/5627161

Dord

p.sheridan wrote: »

Thats exactly what I thought Lomb. Some owners would have had no bother maintaining this status of car.
1 question. Are the timing chains only in the diesel ones ?
I' looking at something like this
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-e-200-leather-auto-04-nct-mint/5629631

All of them have chains.

Max Power1

Plus on that model you will need to look out for sill rust. Not sure if it affected the C but definitely it did affect the E classes

Dord

Max Power1 wrote: »

Plus on that model you will need to look out for sill rust. Not sure if it affected the C but definitely it did affect the E classes

On ALL Mercs you need to look out for rust. It's a standard feature. :pac:

p.sheridan

Thanks Dord...at what mileage are the chains supposed to be done ?I was told that if the cam gears are worn when replacing the chaind that these can be 1500 alone, so this is probably my biggest concern, to know that these and chains are ok. I had also thought that if you had a timing chain and not a timing belt then it never had to be changed. I am completely green when it comes to this stuff. I was thinking that 120k mileage for these engines would be nothing...that they are capable of twice that or was that the ols 90's mercs.

Idbatterim

would you consider a 3 or 5 series op?

Max Power1

Idbatterim wrote: »

would you consider a 3 or 5 series op?

A much better car than the equivalent merc imo, but that's just personal taste.

Dord

p.sheridan wrote: »

Thanks Dord...at what mileage are the chains supposed to be done ?I was told that if the cam gears are worn when replacing the chaind that these can be 1500 alone, so this is probably my biggest concern, to know that these and chains are ok. I had also thought that if you had a timing chain and not a timing belt then it never had to be changed. I am completely green when it comes to this stuff. I was thinking that 120k mileage for these engines would be nothing...that they are capable of twice that or was that the ols 90's mercs.

I haven't seen anything specific on when they should be replaced. However, the chain and tensioner inspection is a regular thing done during one of the services (B service IIRC?). I've got around 120K km on my '02 A-class which just had a service at a Merc specialist recently. According to him it's all good. That said, it depends on the car and how it's been treated and serviced.

In addition to the chain you also have a belt and pulleys for services such as steering pump, alternator, water pump, a/c etc.. This can and does fail. Although I don't believe it costs near as much as a chain.

The older ones are supposed to be a lot better.

p.sheridan

I probably would idbatterim, I'm very indecisive by nature so dont want to baffle myself looking at loads of different ones or i will never make up my mind. a 3 or 5 seris bmw would probably be just as nice as the merc, what would you recommend. I don't want to get into high road tax..some i looked at are 12/1300 euro per year. I wont be doing more than 4000 miles per year, so its just a bit of luxury i'm after. i deive from south munstar to ulster every couple of months and want a bit of room and comfort

Max Power1

p.sheridan wrote: »

I probably would idbatterim, I'm very indecisive by nature so dont want to baffle myself looking at loads of different ones or i will never make up my mind. a 3 or 5 seris bmw would probably be just as nice as the merc, what would you recommend. I don't want to get into high road tax..some i looked at are 12/1300 euro per year. I wont be doing more than 4000 miles per year, so its just a bit of luxury i'm after. i deive from south munstar to ulster every couple of months and want a bit of room and comfort

I see that..... and think this!

ofcork

I think ive seen somewhere the chains should be done around the 80k mark so its a question which would need to be asked also that brake issue sbc should have been done under recall,as you said yourself have some spare cash for issues.

p.sheridan

Max Power1 wrote: »

I see that..... and think this!

LOl That is a beast !!

Annual roat tax on that motoe is €1809. That would put me off i'm afraic

Max Power1

p.sheridan wrote: »

LOl That is a beast !!

Annual roat tax on that motoe is €1809. That would put me off i'm afraic

If you were previously looking at a car with a tax rate of 1300 p/a and found that acceptable, it is only about 1.50 per day more. So just have a medium instead of a large coffee and thats the price difference!


I'm always envious of people that have "what car" threads when they have so small annual mileage. If that were me I would be in the biggest most powerful most polluting car ever that I could find.

p.sheridan

Sorry, I probably typed it incorrectly. The e200 types that I am looking at have road tax of 636/702€ per year. This is fine with me. Probably up to950., Some of the Nice executive type BMW I looked at were 12/1300 which would be a bit too much for me. I know you might say whats the difference, a few hundred in the overall scheme of things, but the way budgets here are going my 636 road tax could be 1000 in 2 years, so its a case of drawing a line above which I dont want to go. I have a quashqai which is our day to day family car that does all the school runs, shopping trips & daily activities. Then I have my work van which I do 1000 miles per week, so this is going to be a little baby for myself & between tax and insurance on it I dont want to spend any more than 1100(in the first year anyhow).
I'm with you on having the biggest monster I can...But on an annual budget.

bazz26

How about an E39 OP:

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-520i-m-sport-automatic/5638704

p.sheridan

Thats a nice motor Bazz, good value at that price

Idbatterim

the below is gorgeous op... max engine size id go up to is 2.5L if I were you, the annual tax on that is E1080...

http://cars.donedeal.co.uk/cars-for-sale/bmw-525-full-m-sport-tax-nct-2014/5635240

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520-I-SE/6113330344382060/advert?channel=CARS

p.sheridan

Idbatterim, that silver one on Carzone is devine...951 tax so thats in budget and full service history. wort enquiring about

L-M

OP having driven a C class a good bit and recently driving an E class for a bit, there really is no comparison what so ever. I can see you have already knocked it off your list but really, get the E class.

As for the 5series vs. the E class, it would be personal taste. A Merc is a Merc a Bmw is a Bmw. Remember though the Bmw is a 6 cylinder 2.2, as opposed to the 1.8 in the Merc.

If I was buying either of the two I would be stretching to the new model (04+) 520i or the E class of the same era.

If you can get an Avantgarde in the Merc (Don't bother with a Classic) it would be worth waiting for. Some serious spec with some lovely features.

p.sheridan

You are correct Limerickman...It will be the E class 04 or newer 05 if i see the right car or a 5 series like the one above. I have slight concerns about a 1.8 shifting such a big car. (My work van is a 3 litre and its easier on juice than the 2.2 I had before + twice the power..it's only ever ticking over on normal driving)
Before today I was not looking at BMW as personally a merc was always Merc. But having seen these 2 above I will have to look seriously at one. according to which the BMW seems to have more goingfor it..

Idbatterim

I see the advantage of the 1.8L supercharged for tax purposes, but the bmw 6 cylinders are gorgeous engines, take a read of below thread, it refers to the 6 pot diesels as opposed petrol though, but same would apply...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057032011

p.sheridan

this is nice

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/-mercedes-e220-cdi-avantgarde-/5476500

MercMad

Arriving late to this but thought I'd add what I know. I work on plenty of both BMW's and Mercs and both cars have their issues. Parts for both are widely available aftermarket at good prices............and your analogy to a Toyota is not really true, the Germans are cheaper to run per annum.

You stated you'd be worried about the 1.8 (Tax €636) but you forget that its supercharged so it produces 163BHP, in the years you mentioned and 240NM@3000RPM. The 2.2(Tax €951) E39 5Series produced 168BHP and 210NM@3500RPM so they are very similar indeed.

My opinion when driving is that you notice that the Merc feels more torquey away from the lights, reacting faster but it does run out of puff at higher RPM's, say over 5500 whereas the BMW has more grunt up at that range, but its noticeably lazier away from the lights.The BMW engine is significantly smoother and sweeter and the Mercedes cannot match this on any level, though its largely unnoticeable inside the cabin.

The E39 is known for giving trouble at certain mileages, Cam sensors, Water pumps, radiators, pcv valves, coil packs, rear control arms to name but a few.

The W211 doesnt have as many mechanical vices, there is no timing chain replacement interval, if it is serviced well and if the chain is noisey then replace it. It does however have some electrical vices but most have been sorted out during the first few years of their lives and the SBC brake issue was the subject of a recall so most/all will have been modified by now. Front ball joints go at high mileage as do brake discs. Door lock can give trouble but can actually be repaired despite what the dealers tell you.

I service a few E39's, one with 175k miles on it and it has given all the above trouble and more besides. I also look after an E-Class with 150k miles and it has given no trouble save for a vacuum pipe (€8.00) Gearbox Connector Plug (€11) and a door lock spring repair (€2). The ball joints were also done.

I think the W211 is a touch more modern/classy inside than the E39 but it would be as its 1/2 a generation newer and I am not a fan of the BMW E60 which is mechanically almost identical.

Best advice is test drive both, drive several examples, get a feel for which you prefer and buy one with a high spec and good service history and that means invoices not merely stamps in a book.

Best of luck !

MercMad

One other thing..........I would avoid the 220CDi's, and scrutinise all NCT reports

jimgoose

The difference between a C-class and an E-class is much like the difference between a Paddy-spec Passat and an Audi A6.

p.sheridan

Thank You guys... Never too late merc Mad...and your knowlege here is really valuable. I have more or less decided to buy a 04 or 05 E200, Avantgarde if i can get it but Elegance will do fine if it has all the service documents.

I am coming up a year or 2(origininally i said 03/04) as I may not gey what i'm after until after christmas de[pending whats out there and as It will be going to last me a long time another grand wont break the bank.

I will never be driving the bejasus out of it so a smooth comfortable ride is all I'm aftyer and when it comes down to it, on personal preference I will always prefer merc over BMW even if the BMW was the better engine.
Thanks Jim Goose...I have scrubbed the c class idea..But I like your comparrison

jimgoose

p.sheridan wrote: »

...Thanks Jim Goose...I have scrubbed the c class idea..But I like your comparrison

You're welcome. I don't want to piss in the cornflakes of any C-class aficionados here - they're a fine car. But as far as I can see there is just no comparison between the interior finish and general sophistication, if you like, between the two. Different job altogether in terms of comfort and the general feeling of being pampered you get when driving the thing, and the difference between the E-class and S-class is much less pronounced.

p.sheridan

& thats exactly what i'm after...Just that little bit extra

p.sheridan

Where are you Based MercMad ?

L-M

MercMad wrote: »

One other thing..........I would avoid the 220CDi's, and scrutinise all NCT reports

Are you saying stay away because most of them are clocked or theyre trouble?

A friend is on his third and all have been bullet proof and done very higj miles.

Also, great to hear about the E200's. Ill be buying an E200 Avant Sport some day!

lomb

I believe that the difference on the 2008 on C class to the E class was much less and the C has been much improved. The W211 looks better inside and out than the latest Merc offering imo.

L-M

And out...

p.sheridan

Agreed Lomb.. The 211 ticks pretty much every box for me looks wise. Its when it comes to all the mechanics and technical stuff I'm lost .

Maybe for another post but is there like an AA inspection you can get done here like in the UK by an independent ?

L-M

There is yeah, not sure if they're worth it unless they're going to give some bit of a guarantee afterwards or they're a Mercedes expert.

AFAIK Motorcheck/Cartell offer the service.

p.sheridan

Thanks...I'd like to get mercmad above on the job !!!

MuppetCheck

p.sheridan wrote: »

Thanks...I'd like to get mercmad above on the job !!!

My uncle got the AA to look at one for him and they were very, very thorough and highlighted a very costly fault with the chain. But it also cost 300 euro. It's not something you would be doing very often, possibly if it gave you peace of mind on a car you were set on but a decent indie would do it a lot cheaper.

merc230ce

Nice thread, OP. Have you taken the plunge yet?
I'm looking for a 7-seat estate atm and an '06 S211 has caught my eye. As far as I can make out (haven't even been to see it yet) it predates the facelift that came in 2006. Obviously I'd prefer to get a facelifted model for the reasons mentioned before, but there don't seem to be any '07 or '08 7-seaters out there.
Are there any clues I could be looking out for in the Service History re issues being ironed out?

p.sheridan

No Not yet. We decided to increase out budget by a few grand and buy in Jan or feb 2014. I am still set on e200. 07 - 08 or later 7 seaters impossible to get. Once money got tight none of these were sold new

Old diesel

MercMad wrote: »

Arriving late to this but thought I'd add what I know. I work on plenty of both BMW's and Mercs and both cars have their issues. Parts for both are widely available aftermarket at good prices............and your analogy to a Toyota is not really true, the Germans are cheaper to run per annum.

You stated you'd be worried about the 1.8 (Tax €636) but you forget that its supercharged so it produces 163BHP, in the years you mentioned and 240NM@3000RPM. The 2.2(Tax €951) E39 5Series produced 168BHP and 210NM@3500RPM so they are very similar indeed.

My opinion when driving is that you notice that the Merc feels more torquey away from the lights, reacting faster but it does run out of puff at higher RPM's, say over 5500 whereas the BMW has more grunt up at that range, but its noticeably lazier away from the lights.The BMW engine is significantly smoother and sweeter and the Mercedes cannot match this on any level, though its largely unnoticeable inside the cabin.

The E39 is known for giving trouble at certain mileages, Cam sensors, Water pumps, radiators, pcv valves, coil packs, rear control arms to name but a few.

The W211 doesnt have as many mechanical vices, there is no timing chain replacement interval, if it is serviced well and if the chain is noisey then replace it. It does however have some electrical vices but most have been sorted out during the first few years of their lives and the SBC brake issue was the subject of a recall so most/all will have been modified by now. Front ball joints go at high mileage as do brake discs. Door lock can give trouble but can actually be repaired despite what the dealers tell you.

I service a few E39's, one with 175k miles on it and it has given all the above trouble and more besides. I also look after an E-Class with 150k miles and it has given no trouble save for a vacuum pipe (€8.00) Gearbox Connector Plug (€11) and a door lock spring repair (€2). The ball joints were also done.

I think the W211 is a touch more modern/classy inside than the E39 but it would be as its 1/2 a generation newer and I am not a fan of the BMW E60 which is mechanically almost identical.

Best advice is test drive both, drive several examples, get a feel for which you prefer and buy one with a high spec and good service history and that means invoices not merely stamps in a book.

Best of luck !

E39s - imo - aren't as bad normally as your making them out to be.

And from what I can see - most W211s don't do 150,000 miles with only the small issues you mention on the specific example you mention.

Yes they (E39s) are bit more sensitive to maintenance - on areas like the cooling system then other cars. But maintain them well - and imo - they needn't be any less reliable then most other cars on the road.

But its still a nicer car then most cars on the road - newer Beemers included.

I wouldn't be turned off the E39 OP - still a very nice car imo

Old diesel

I should add though - that sometimes you can meet a troublesome E39 (brother had one) - but from what ive heard from various owners on forums and in the real world etc - E39s are normally okay reliability wise if you maintain them well.

I shall go back in my box now though - the OP wants a Merc - which is understandable - because they are nice cars.

Still not convinced the 211 is more reliable then an E39 though - but respect Merc Mads expert opinion - as he does seem to know his Mercs

m r c

Hi op, buy the e200k. I had one for 6-7 years a newer shape and it was maybe the best car I've ever owned. I kept it serviced and apart from that all it ever got was tyres. Excellent economy on longer runs I could get over 45 mpg and never got less than 37/38 per tank. Absolutely not underpowered even for a 1.8 either. I changed it last year for a new seat people carrier thing and hated every minute if it. Got rid in less than a year.

Get a clean low mileage model in whatever year you can afford and I guarantee you won't be sorry.