Pipe or no pipe the dilemma

agriman27

I have a sizeable drainage job lined up to do. I think it will be around 700 metres of shores. I am going to buy 3-4inch crushed stone from local quarry. Had intended filling up mostly with the big stone and top up with smaller stone almost to to top. Just wondering what are people's thoughts on pipe is it worth buying any or should I just buy plenty of stone fill them up well. It's not peaty ground.

49801

Persoannely think there is only exceptional situations were pipe is of no benefit.
The black pipe is stronger stuff than the yellow stuff. Worth the extra IMO

grange mac

Someone posted a teagasc supplment on draining here recently. Tagasc basically said smaller sones the better...and pipe if over 30m.

Waiting for my digger man to arrive...about to re do bog that spent alot stone in 3 years ago...pipe sank and came apart i think...so redoing about 100m.

Lining drain with terram and plan break rock(plenty here) into smithereens and put over pipe in wettest part of bog drain...once he arrives!!!

agriman27

There's a good few lads around me think the pipe is a waste of money. They reckon if there is a good fall the water wil flow through the stone. The plastic pipes always block up in my experience anyway

crackcrack30

I'D retink or at least seek good advice on your use of stone......water seems travel easier thru round stone (smooth) 1 think 30mm optium........all you have to do is look at an old farm/ lane/yard road to see how puddles lye after rain........crushed stone can compact overtime....
.if there's a decent fall I would possibly chance leaving out the pipe with the correct stone and soil type.

agriman27

crackcrack30 wrote: »

I'D retink or at least seek good advice on your use of stone......water seems travel easier thru round stone (smooth) 1 think 30mm optium........all you have to do is look at an old farm/ lane/yard road to see how puddles lye after rain........crushed stone can compact overtime....
.if there's a decent fall I would possibly chance leaving out the pipe with the correct stone and soil type.

Ideally I would be buying round stone the same as in the past but the round stone has increased in price so much people can't justify buying it. It's almost twice the price of the crushed stuff which is nice and clean. It's hard to know

Figerty

Take a look a the land improvement thread.

read this, it lacks a bit on the science of soils but it's good.

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/2821/Land%20Drainage%20Manual.pdf

Figerty

agriman27 wrote: »

There's a good few lads around me think the pipe is a waste of money. They reckon if there is a good fall the water wil flow through the stone. The plastic pipes always block up in my experience anyway

Speaking in very general terms pipes block because the particles move through the stones.. if the gap between the stones is smaller than the particles and smaller than in the pipe, then the pipe cannot block, except with poor laying. If the particles fill the pipe it's usually a different problem.

Pipe is only necessary to move the volume of water; if the volume is great enough to overflow the drain then you need pipe.

The question is are you trying take water down or catch water coming up?
Laying pipe in bog is a whole different ball game. it moves.

just do it

Why did your pipe block? Iron ore/ soil particles/ blockage only at outlet or along length?

agriman27

I'd be tryin to catch water moving downwards. The pipes always block up badly with soil particles. People around are starting to think the big stone kinda replicates the old stone shores that were put in sixty years ago and are still running

just do it

agriman27 wrote: »

I'd be tryin to catch water moving downwards. The pipes always block up badly with soil particles. People around are starting to think the big stone kinda replicates the old stone shores that were put in sixty years ago and are still running

I'd say a smooth sided pipe is a closer replica to the old stone shores. There's no doubting they were great drains and still working in parts.

Figerty

agriman27 wrote: »

I'd be tryin to catch water moving downwards. The pipes always block up badly with soil particles. People around are starting to think the big stone kinda replicates the old stone shores that were put in sixty years ago and are still running

The old stone closed drains were flat bottomed to keep a flow going. Filling with stones will only fill the gaps between the stones over time.
It could be a long time but they will fill.

I finished draining a wet part of a field last week. I found an old soaker drain filled with stones heading for an open drain, This could have worked for centuries but, I reckon the big tractors vibrated the earth into the gaps; one way or another its blocked and had to be bypassed.

agriman27

Figerty wrote: »

The old stone closed drains were flat bottomed to keep a flow going. Filling with stones will only fill the gaps between the stones over time.
It could be a long time but they will fill.

I finished draining a wet part of a field last week. I found an old soaker drain filled with stones heading for an open drain, This could have worked for centuries but, I reckon the big tractors vibrated the earth into the gaps; one way or another its blocked and had to be bypassed.

I might get get the pipe for most of them was informed today you can buy a roll of pipe down at the border for €35 cheaper than local co-op at that price it wouldn't be worth taking too much of a chance leaving it out:pac:

Figerty

agriman27 wrote: »

I might get get the pipe for most of them was informed today you can buy a roll of pipe down at the border for €35 cheaper than local co-op at that price it wouldn't be worth taking too much of a chance leaving it out:pac:

That's a serious difference,, can you get the stone there as well?

just do it

Well we'll all be able to report back in 10 years and see then what works then as from what I see no two lads on here has installed identical drains!

agriman27

Don't think he has a quarry:pac: I'm buying the stone for around €7.50 plus vat a tonne

Milton09

My thinking is that at least if you have a pipe you have the option to rod the drain, if no pipe and you get a blockage for whatever reason and you're screwed.