Where have all the butches gone?

baby and crumble

http://www.shewired.com/lifestyle/2013/09/05/op-ed-where-have-all-butches-gone

This is an interesting article on butch and trans identity, if anyone's interested...

In my experience, for as long as I have found myself in intimate circumstances with butches/studs/masculine-identified women — from way back when I was too young to be in the bars where I was meeting and going home with them — a curious thing happens. Once there is enough trust established, I become witness to a moment of confession. The confession goes something like this: "I don’t know how to explain this, but I don’t exactly feel like a woman. I mean, I’m butch, and that’s close, but honestly, I’m not sure what I am."

Don’t get me wrong, there are many, many proud butch women who are exactly that: women. In today’s terminology, their gender expression is masculine, and their gender identity is female. They wear their tool belts proudly, and I am happy to admire the show. For them, a butch identity resolves the issue — if people have a problem with it, it’s their sexism or homophobia rearing its head.

But that experience is not everyone’s, and it never has been. Butches may look a lot alike on the outside, but they aren’t the same on the inside.

Medusa22

Thanks for the article baby and crumble, it was very interesting. I was just having this conversation with my partner yesterday, and to be honest I understand being trans more than I understand being butch. It makes sense to me to dress as a man if you wish to be a man, and I don't mean to be disrespectful but I find it difficult to understand why a woman would want to dress as a man, especially to convey that she is female and able to dress how she wishes. It is not a rejection of femininity, almost saying that it isn't ok to dress as a woman or that it is better to dress in a masculine way? Apologies if you have been having this argument over and over again. I am bi-sexual and have always been femme and I am only attracted to femme lesbians and bi-sexuals because I like a woman to look like a woman, that is what I am attracted to.

Ambersky

Thanks for posting that article baby and crumble it is one of the most interesting articles on an issue I have been thinking about for a long time.
As a Lesbian feminist myself who has been out for a long time and has been an activist involved in all those discussions over the years about social constructs, gender and sexuality, I can relate to much of what the author is saying.

Why can’t they understand that gender is a social construct, and that women don’t have to conform to a feminine ideal? Isn’t that what we were fighting for — a world in which women could wear tool belts and neckties and do anything we damn well please, without the constraints of gender?

At its very core, this was the vision of the feminist movement, and lesbians more than anyone understood how transformative this could be.

The position of the Butch has always been of interest to me, as the lesbians most likely to be recognised and to bear the brunt of social stigma both in mainstream society and in the more conservative or assimilationist sections of the lesbian community are the Butches. I have admired butch women, loved their strength, bravado and gentleness as an equal expression of what it is to be a woman. I have seen all these traits as belonging in the repertoire of being a woman and it made space for me.

One of the mistakes that we made as lesbian feminists is that we combined sexual orientation and gender expression into an androgynous dyke ideal: short hair, no makeup, able to fix a car or bake bread with equal ease, frequently accused of being in the wrong public restroom (much to our outrage).

I was that dyke and I didnt take on that persona because of some feminist ideal, I Was Born That Way. I had never seen any lesbian or gay imagery right up to the time I came out in my early twenties.
But I understand that femmes found it difficult to gain acceptance or to simply be themselves in those early years. In acknowledging that I dont want it to be forgotten that it was always and still is difficult for butches. Sure drag kings can be considered sexy and are often appreciated more than women who dont take the outfit off on the way home. Personal ads regularly say "no butches" or "sorry no butches" but I dont think I have ever seen "no femmes". If someone isnt going to understand lesbians its going to be "I dont understand why those women want to look like men". This is even said about women like Claire Balding and Ellen DeGeneres who clearly dont look like men but dont wear heels and dresses.
You never hear I dont know why women would want to wear heels that limit your ability to run or even walk at times, or short skirts that equally inhibit movement. Why do women want to look vulnerable and inhibited? that question is never asked its "Why dont you want to look feminine?"
I know the debate about the feminine look being one of vulnerability/limitation and the butch one being one of ability and strength can go on forever, at least it used to go on forever. Now I think there seems to be more acceptance of these two polar positions and less questioning.

It seems to me that as misunderstood as it is the Trans position is, it is more understood than the position of questioning of masculinity and femininity by butch women. Some Gay men including Graham Norton if they are going to have a pop at lesbians its going to be by calling some woman they think is butch ugly, it seems it is ok to transition (kind of ) but not ok to question gender roles and remain in the gender assigned at birth.
Thats my take on it.

baby and crumble

Medusa22 wrote: »

Thanks for the article baby and crumble, it was very interesting. I was just having this conversation with my partner yesterday, and to be honest I understand being trans more than I understand being butch. It makes sense to me to dress as a man if you wish to be a man, and I don't mean to be disrespectful but I find it difficult to understand why a woman would want to dress as a man, especially to convey that she is female and able to dress how she wishes.

I personally don't dress the way I do (which is quite butch) because I want to look like a man. I don't bind my breasts or anything like that. I love being a woman, but I am not a feminine woman. I am a masculine woman, just like there can be feminine men. I struggled with it for a long long time- I saw the butch middle aged women in the George when I was starting to come out, and I was afraid of them, and afraid of how I would be percieved if I dressed or acted like them. But I knew I didn't feel comfortable with dressing in feminine clothes or wearing make up, etc. It simply never felt like 'me' when I did that.

Medusa22 wrote: »

It is not a rejection of femininity, almost saying that it isn't ok to dress as a woman or that it is better to dress in a masculine way? Apologies if you have been having this argument over and over again. I am bi-sexual and have always been femme and I am only attracted to femme lesbians and bi-sexuals because I like a woman to look like a woman, that is what I am attracted to.

I don't dress the way I do as a political statement, although I appreciate that by dressing the way I do I do make one. I dress the way I do because I love the accoutrements of mens clothing- bowties, collared shirts, cufflinks, tie-bars... I love how the look, and how the change an outfit. I don't feel like that about typical womens accessories.

I know that for many women, I would not be seen as attractive. Luckily, I don't dress to attract women. I dress to feel comfortable and to express myself. my partner happens to find my attractive as I am, in my butchness (rather than in spite of it), which is enough for me. I hear statements similar to yours so often, and while it used to bother me, it doesn't anymore

Medusa22

Thanks for your reply Baby and Crumble and I am glad that I didn't offend you, because that wasn't my intention.

What you said actually makes a lot of sense to me and I hadn't thought of it in that way before (such as you enjoy wearing accessories such as cufflinks and bow ties etc) and it isn't so much about making a political statement but rather being comfortable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a girl that wears short skirts and six inch heels so I understand your discomfort to a certain extent.

baby and crumble

Medusa22 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a girl that wears short skirts and six inch heels so I understand your discomfort to a certain extent.

When I say comfort though, I don't actually mean physical comfort, although that is an element. I feel 'wrong' in overtly femininely styled clothing. Many of my clothes are from the female section, however I style them differently.

But butch means more than just clothes and appearance for most butch women. It's an attitude too. Although that's a while another kettle of fish.

Ambersky

There is a problem in that mainstream society often describe any woman not looking traditionally feminine enough as butch. Some women on first going to lesbian events say there are too many butch women when those women don't identify as butch at all.

baby and crumble

Ambersky wrote: »

There is a problem in that mainstream society often describe any woman not looking traditionally feminine enough as butch. Some women on first going to lesbian events say there are too many butch women when those women don't identify as butch at all.

There is also an equation that butch= ugly, uncouth, rude etc. And that is a real problem. A lot of the younger butches think you have to be like really rude crass men to be butch. It aggravates me.

There's also an idea that butch women dress the way we do because we don't care about our appearance. I challenge anyone to see my wardrobe/ dressing table/ skin care regime to say that to me with a straight face!!!