Gas Boiler Replacement

mik07

Any recommendations on gas boilers? Am replacing existing Baxi boiler and am trying to decide between Viessman Vitodens & Ariston Clas HE System....any advice?

Dtp79

mik07 wrote: »

Any recommendations on gas boilers? Am replacing existing Baxi boiler and am trying to decide between Viessman Vitodens & Ariston Clas HE System....any advice?

Ariston

shane0007

Ariston all day everyday.

corkgsxr

Love Worcester bosch myself. About to fit a 28 junior combi to my new place.

ChrisPH

Viessmann Vitodens 100 is the best boiler out there, 5 year warranty on parts and labour and 10 year warranty on the stainless steel heat exchanger. Iv had mine for three years and have never had an issue with it even though I havent serviced it (I know I should)! I heard the ideal is an ok boiler too but I firmly believe if you buy for the price you buy twice

sullzz

ChrisPH wrote: »

Viessmann Vitodens 100 is the best boiler out there, 5 year warranty on parts and labour and 10 year warranty on the stainless steel heat exchanger. Iv had mine for three years and have never had an issue with it even though I havent serviced it (I know I should)! I heard the ideal is an ok boiler too but I firmly believe if you buy for the price you buy twice

It's not the only boiler with 5 year warranty
What are you basing your claim about them being the best boiler out there on
How are they better than the ariston or worcester or the vaillant

Egass13

Worcester Bosch all day long . Fitted tons of them , never had an issue or call back , easily installed and maintained . Neat looking and quiet as a mouse . Also 5 yrs in parts and 10 on heatexchanger .

sullzz

Egass13 wrote: »

Worcester Bosch all day long . Fitted tons of them , never had an issue or call back , easily installed and maintained . Neat looking and quiet as a mouse . Also 5 yrs in parts and 10 on heatexchanger .

Yeah I like the worcester myself , but I'm loving the new vaillant , a few of the lads on here are big fans of the ariston , I'm thinking about asking a certain person on here about a course on them

Dtp1979

sullzz wrote: »

Yeah I like the worcester myself , but I'm loving the new vaillant , a few of the lads on here are big fans of the ariston , I'm thinking about asking a certain person on here about a course on them

I might join you on that.

Egass13

I don't know an awful lot about the aristons in fairness . But I'm goin to go out on a limb here and suggest that ChrisPH is Chris from Precision Heating , hence the PH after his name, who just happen to be the Irish agents for viessmann , I could be wrong tho haha

Dtp1979

Egass13 wrote: »

I don't know an awful lot about the aristons in fairness . But I'm goin to go out on a limb here and suggest that ChrisPH is Chris from Precision Heating , hence the PH after his name, who just happen to be the Irish agents for viessmann , I could be wrong tho haha

Well spotted. There still a good boiler though. But in my opinion Ariston is by far the market leader.... And being around 400 cheaper is just the icing on the cake

Egass13

To be honest any boiler that provides technical training and support in Ireland is a thumbs up from me. Avoid ferroli at all costs , opinion based on tempra and tempra 2 models , dirt . Haven't had any issues regarding their HE boilers yet but can't imagine there any better.

ChrisPH

I am a homeowner and my brother is a fitter, he swears by Viessmann and i trust his judgement. He would always tell me he would offer them as a high end boiler or depending on budget he would offer Ideal as a cheaper alternative as he said it is a reliable boiler

Egass13

ChrisPH wrote: »

I am a homeowner and my brother is a fitter, he swears by Viessmann and i trust his judgement. He would always tell me he would offer them as a high end boiler or depending on budget he would offer Ideal as a cheaper alternative as he said it is a reliable boiler

Oh I'm not debating how good they are mate , just thought your name and the fact your pushing the brand so well was a little convenient !

ChrisPH

It was between them or Worcester I'm sure it would have done just as good of a job, I'm only going by my experience.

BlueValkyrie

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but does anyone have any opinions on Ideal boilers?

Airtricity have just quoted me for an Ideal Logic system boiler - looking at the rankings on the SEAI website, they don't seem to be the most efficient by today's standards - 91.1%.

Also, they're recommending a 15kw unit - the house is a small 2-up 2-down terrace - 6 rads. Should I go for a 12kw unit instead?

Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks

Robbie.G

BlueValkyrie wrote: »

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but does anyone have any opinions on Ideal boilers?

Airtricity have just quoted me for an Ideal Logic system boiler - looking at the rankings on the SEAI website, they don't seem to be the most efficient by today's standards - 91.1%.

Also, they're recommending a 15kw unit - the house is a small 2-up 2-down terrace - 6 rads. Should I go for a 12kw unit instead?

Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks

What cost have they quoted as you should get better value by getting a quotes from local Rgi.
The 15kw would be fine.
The ideal is an ok boiler nothing to write home about there are better boilers out there for around the same money

Egass13

Robbie.G wrote: »

What cost have they quoted as you should get better value by getting a quotes from local Rgi.
The 15kw would be fine.
The ideal is an ok boiler nothing to write home about there are better boilers out there for around the same money

Id agree with that , decent boiler , 6 rads u should get away with a 12kw but price wise there isn't a huge difference anyway . But it would be cheaper to have a local rgi do the job, just do your homework on it and don't get anybody with an rgi sticker on there van. Personally I like Bosch boilers

Dtp1979

Egass13 wrote: »

Id agree with that , decent boiler , 6 rads u should get away with a 12kw but price wise there isn't a huge difference anyway . But it would be cheaper to have a local rgi do the job, just do your homework on it and don't get anybody with an rgi sticker on there van. Personally I like Bosch boilers

What u mean don't get anybody with an Rgi sticker on their van?
I'd advise against Bosch seeing as they allow a flue joint in the wall with their telescopic flues

BlueValkyrie

Robbie.G wrote: »

What cost have they quoted as you should get better value by getting a quotes from local Rgi.
The 15kw would be fine.
The ideal is an ok boiler nothing to write home about there are better boilers out there for around the same money

Thanks Robbie.G and Egass13

They have quoted €2450 for the new boiler (same price for either 12kw or 15kw) and new time clock.

They also quoted €3140 (after SEAI grant has been deducted) to include full heating controls and BER as per the SEAI requirements.

Both quotes include replacement of copper cylinder with insulated one with immersion (no immersion at present), complete flush of system and magma (?) filter. 5 year warranty and first annual service included.

I'm getting a couple of quotes from other RGII installers later in the week - I would expect that as both of you say, the local installers may be cheaper (or may be the same price but for a better boiler). Are the above prices in the right ballpark? First quote that I've got (so far) and not really sure what to expect. Any thoughts or advice welcome

BlueValkyrie

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What u mean don't get anybody with an Rgi sticker on their van?
I'd advise against Bosch seeing as they allow a flue joint in the wall with their telescopic flues

I'm guessing the warning about the sticker means to check the RGII register to be sure that they are actually a qualified installer.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the Bosch flue - is it that the flue isn't all one piece, and has a join at some point - probably a stupid question, but I don't know much about all of this

Dtp1979

BlueValkyrie wrote: »

I'm guessing the warning about the sticker means to check the RGII register to be sure that they are actually a qualified installer.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the Bosch flue - is it that the flue isn't all one piece, and has a join at some point - probably a stupid question, but I don't know much about all of this

No such thing as a stupid question. Yes Bosch flues are telescopic therefore a joint will nearly always be inside the wall. Its Against regs....Don't ask!

Egass13

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What u mean don't get anybody with an Rgi sticker on their van?
I'd advise against Bosch seeing as they allow a flue joint in the wall with their telescopic flues

Sorry I meant don't get just anybody based on the sticker alone , do some research .. Have to start reading my posts before sending them !

The flue joint if installed correctly using the foil tape and self taper supplied isn't an issue . I'm sure Bosch thought about this when designing them in fairness

Dtp1979

Egass13 wrote: »

Sorry I meant don't get just anybody based on the sticker alone , do some research .. Have to start reading my posts before sending them !

The flue joint if installed correctly using the foil tape and self taper supplied isn't an issue . I'm sure Bosch thought about this when designing them in fairness

But it's against regs isn't it? Irregardless of what WB say

shane0007

Egass13 wrote: »

The flue joint if installed correctly using the foil tape and self taper supplied isn't an issue . I'm sure Bosch thought about this when designing them in fairness

A joint is a joint is a joint! A joint inside a wall is a concealed joint. ALL concealed joints must be inspectable & therefore must have an access panel to inspect said joint.
Therefore if you conceal that joint inside the cavity when installing said boiler, do you break open the customer's wall, insert re-inforced concrete lintels & install an access hatch to inspect the joint inside said cavity?

or

do you issue your customer with a Notice of Hazard informing them they have a concealed joint in their flue & they should have an RGI call & either change the flue to a continuous flue or have major building works carried out on their home to enable inspection of the joint in the flue?

Egass13

shane0007 wrote: »

A joint is a joint is a joint! A joint inside a wall is a concealed joint. ALL concealed joints must be inspectable & therefore must have an access panel to inspect said joint.
Therefore if you conceal that joint inside the cavity when installing said boiler, do you break open the customer's wall, insert re-inforced concrete lintels & install an access hatch to inspect the joint inside said cavity?

or

do you issue your customer with a Notice of Hazard informing them they have a concealed joint in their flue & they should have an RGI call & either change the flue to a continuous flue or have major building works carried out on their home to enable inspection of the joint in the flue?

I have to say , when you put it like that I agree with you. I've never thought about it like that . I suppose I worked off the assumption that they've had to make sure there was not going to be an issue down the line with something as serious as the flue . But if it is technically against regs then how is it able to be sold at all ? that's the worrying part .

shane0007

Egass13 wrote: »

But if it is technically against regs then how is it able to be sold at all ? that's the worrying part .

Because IMO I think they & other manufacturer's made a cock up. In order to make it easier for installers to install (& that sells boilers), the installer doesn't have to cut the flue to suit the wall thickness if the flue is telescopic.
In the UK, it is allowed inside the cavity if the boiler is mounted on that same external wall but my reading of that ruling is to allow all the existing SE boilers remain compliant.
I got a snotty call from WB when the issue was highlighted before on Boards & when I asked them to clarify the Concealed Flue Joint rules, they just said they would get back to me & scarpered. Never heard a dicky bird from them since. So, I will not install any boiler with a telescopic flue & when I service one, the customer gets a NOH.

Egass13

shane0007 wrote: »

Because IMO I think they & other manufacturer's made a cock up. In order to make it easier for installers to install (& that sells boilers), the installer doesn't have to cut the flue to suit the wall thickness if the flue is telescopic.
In the UK, it is allowed inside the cavity if the boiler is mounted on that same external wall but my reading of that ruling is to allow all the existing SE boilers remain compliant.
I got a snotty call from WB when the issue was highlighted before on Boards & when I asked them to clarify the Concealed Flue Joint rules, they just said they would get back to me & scarpered. Never heard a dicky bird from them since. So, I will not install any boiler with a telescopic flue & when I service one, the customer gets a NOH.

Your dead right in fairness lads . Can't believe I never took that view on it before but you live and learn. I wonder if they have a continuous flue option because I do like them as a boiler , from an installer view and a quality view.

shane0007

Wouldn't it be great if Boards changed this simple safety affected issue with boiler manufacturers. I am sure that it is cheaper to manufacturer a continuous flue than a telescopic flue & I am even more sure that any decent RGI is very capable of cutting that flue to length, even the bird loving RGI's that installed the "winter perch flue" for the tweeties!

Egass13

even the bird loving RGI's that installed the "winter perch flue" for the tweeties![/quote]

I'm regularly in estates full of them , you would think during the boom an apprentice could afford a measuring tape and a hacksaw . Oh and a drill bit for the safety valve pipe !

shane0007

Egass13 wrote: »

Oh and a drill bit for the safety valve pipe !

Give them their dues, I come across the ones with the short drill bits. They just terminate the safety valve pipe in the cavity. Using qualpex lets it bend nicely downwards into it also.

rightjob!

do the alpha boilers have a joint on there flues??
theres nothing more annoying thatn a safety valve not piped out!

shane0007

rightjob! wrote: »

do the alpha boilers have a joint on there flues??

Yes. It seems once one manufacturer comes up with an idea to make an easier installation for the installer, a lot follow to keep up & is sales orientated.

They are now coming up with the self commissioning gas valve & many manufacturers say you don't need to FGA their boilers. Gearing towards the "hang 'em on the wall, if the light comes on, it's a good 'un" brigade. Soon there will be no need for the RGI.
Was it not in the 70's when airplane crashes were very frequent as they said pilots needed less training as auto-pilot was better? They changed that when they realised they were wrong! More pilot training, less dependence on auto features increases safety.

rightjob!

a self commisioning gas valve is a terrible idea!
what do you make of the alpha boilers shane?

shane0007

rightjob! wrote: »

a self commisioning gas valve is a terrible idea!
what do you make of the alpha boilers shane?

Don't know much about them.

Baxi's are self commissioning.
I have yet to hang a boiler that does not need some adjustment. Had one yesterday that low fire was creeping towards 200ppm. After adjustment, 23ppm.

Egass13

rightjob! wrote: »

a self commisioning gas valve is a terrible idea!
what do you make of the alpha boilers shane?

Came across a few combi alphas with diverter valve actuator problems, and plate heat exchangers scaled up . Although why any plumber would fit a combi with a flat plate HE , in the midlands is beyond me .

Shane I had the same issue with the new baxi . Self commissioning my hole

cerastes

Robbie.G wrote: »

What cost have they quoted as you should get better value by getting a quotes from local Rgi.
The 15kw would be fine.
The ideal is an ok boiler nothing to write home about there are better boilers out there for around the same money

Keeping an eye on threads regarding boiler replacemnt, this is the first Ive heard of a new ideal boiler being recommended,
Would they be cheaper than say an Ariston boiler? which models?
when you say nothing to write home about, in what regard?

Ive a few problems with my heating but the boiler which is an ideal (is ok for now) but Im keeping an eye open to see what would be a good replacement.

ChrisPH wrote: »

Viessmann Vitodens 100 is the best boiler out there, 5 year warranty on parts and labour and 10 year warranty on the stainless steel heat exchanger. Iv had mine for three years and have never had an issue with it even though I havent serviced it (I know I should)! I heard the ideal is an ok boiler too but I firmly believe if you buy for the price you buy twice

Egass13 wrote: »

Worcester Bosch all day long . Fitted tons of them , never had an issue or call back , easily installed and maintained . Neat looking and quiet as a mouse . Also 5 yrs in parts and 10 on heatexchanger .

Ive been told of the 5 year warranty on the Ariston (classic?) nothing was mentioned about the heat exchanger? Its something I should have asked as I hear its the heat exchanger or at least the condensing part that gives problems (edit, not specifically on the Ariston, but if not installed/clean correctly? then its the heat exchanger that suffers?) any ideas on the prices of the different makes? WB, Ariston, Viessmans?
edit, (Ive already priced the Ariston, Im wary of the WB now I see mention of an issue of a jointed flue, so all thats left? Viessmann?)

BlueValkyrie wrote: »

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but does anyone have any opinions on Ideal boilers?

Airtricity have just quoted me for an Ideal Logic system boiler - looking at the rankings on the SEAI website, they don't seem to be the most efficient by today's standards - 91.1%.

Also, they're recommending a 15kw unit - the house is a small 2-up 2-down terrace - 6 rads. Should I go for a 12kw unit instead?

Any thoughts much appreciated, thanks

Is the efficiency a critical thing, with similar modern boilers? if each house is different?

Im also wondering, what the advantage of the system boilers are over non system? compactness? cost? ease of fitting? my current boiler is 14kw and I hear people mentioning getting larger, Id want as small as possible as not heating water all the time and then it'd be inefficient (not condensing) heating just the house?

shane0007

Egass13 wrote: »

Shane I had the same issue with the new baxi . Self commissioning my hole

It wasn't a Baxi. I don't fit Baxi's.

shane0007

cerastes wrote: »

Ive been told of the 5 year warranty on the Ariston (classic?) nothing was mentioned about the heat exchanger? Its something I should have asked as I hear its the heat exchanger or at least the condensing part that gives problems, any ideas on the prices of the different makes? WB, Ariston, Viessmans?

Heat exchangers for the Ariston on both E & Clas models have a 10 year warranty. Issues from sludge are not claimable under warranty.
The E has a 2 year parts & labour warranty & the Clas has a 5 year parts & labour warranty.

cerastes

shane0007 wrote: »

Heat exchangers for the Ariston on both E & Clas models have a 10 year warranty. Issues from sludge are not claimable under warranty.
The E has a 2 year parts & labour warranty & the Clas has a 5 year parts & labour warranty.

Ok, thanks
Ive been told about pre cleaning as a requirement of the warranty on an ariston
assuming that and a filter are fitted, surely there isn't a likelyhood of having that problem?
Once a clean is done on a heating system, whats the likelihood of it being needed again? or how often is such a thing recomended?

Egass13

shane0007 wrote: »

It wasn't a Baxi. I don't fit Baxi's.

I don't either , I was only there to service it. Whoever fitted it obviously never checked

shane0007

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, thanks
Ive been told about pre cleaning as a requirement of the warranty on an ariston
assuming that and a filter are fitted, surely there isn't a likelyhood of having that problem?
Once a clean is done on a heating system, whats the likelihood of it being needed again? or how often is such a thing recomended?

If there are no issues with the system such as leaks, etc. & the system has a decent quality inhibitor added, there is no time limit on the flush. Fernox inhibitors do not degrade over time so as long as the system has not been drained or diluted, you don't even have to top up their inhibitor.
If you do drain the system, add the same chemical that was added originally. Do not mix varying brands/types.

shane0007

Egass13 wrote: »

I don't either , I was only there to service it. Whoever fitted it obviously never checked

I just don't trust something I cannot adjust/manipulate.
How does a faulty self regulating valve or PCB knows it's faulty?

JohnnieK

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, thanks
Ive been told about pre cleaning as a requirement of the warranty on an ariston
assuming that and a filter are fitted, surely there isn't a likelyhood of having that problem?
Once a clean is done on a heating system, whats the likelihood of it being needed again? or how often is such a thing recomended?

Providing the system is maintained correctly there would be no need for cleaning again.
Inhibitor levels have to be maintained in the system and I would top this up on an annual service of any new boilers I put in.
When you get your car serviced the oil would be changed (I Hope), The same with your heating.
What's the point in spending your hard earned money on a new boiler, flush and filter and then not maintain it.

cerastes

JohnnieK wrote: »

Providing the system is maintained correctly there would be no need for cleaning again.
Inhibitor levels have to be maintained in the system and I would top this up on an annual service of any new boilers I put in.
When you get your car serviced the oil would be changed (I Hope), The same with your heating.
What's the point in spending your hard earned money on a new boiler, flush and filter and then not maintain it.

No one has ever suggested to me about topping up inhibitor at a service or ask if I had to bleed rads, my boiler is a conventional one, Im not so sure the effects its had on the boiler, its all stuff Im considering when a replacement needs to be installed for maintaining warranties, just didnt know about it before.

JohnnieK

cerastes wrote: »

No one has ever suggested to me about topping up inhibitor at a service or ask if I had to bleed rads, my boiler is a conventional one, Im not so sure the effects its had on the boiler, its all stuff Im considering when a replacement needs to be installed for maintaining warranties, just didnt know about it before.

There is nothing inhibitor will do for your system now. Inhibitor must be put into a clean system to work correctly.
If inhibitor is mixed with dirty water it becomes as bad as the system water that's already in there.

cerastes

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, thanks
Ive been told about pre cleaning as a requirement of the warranty on an ariston
assuming that and a filter are fitted, surely there isn't a likelyhood of having that problem?
Once a clean is done on a heating system, whats the likelihood of it being needed again? or how often is such a thing recomended?

Fitting any boiler requires that the system water is clean, it's the quality of the water that dictates the cleaning process required, all manufactures will make the warranty null and void if contamination from the system water damages the boiler.

I would rather have a cheap boiler with a clean system than the most expensive boiler with a 10 year warranty on a dirty system.