100+ vehicle crash in UK

corktina

https://www.facebook.com/YahooNewsUK?hc_location=stream

Mint Sauce

Just after seeing this now, 150 cars with dozens injuried, thankfully no fatalities.

Incident occured in thick fog in the SE of England, on the Sheppey crossing.

Dozens of people have been injured as more than 130 vehicles were involved in a series of crashes in thick fog on the A249 Sheppey crossing in Kent.

Eight of those hurt in the collisions, which took place at about 07:15 BST, have serious injuries.

Early reports said 200 people had been hurt, but police later revised the figure.

Firefighters said they had freed five people from their vehicles on the southbound carriageway.

One witness said visibility had been very poor at the time of the crash but drivers were approaching the crossing with no lights.

Others at the scene described a mass of tangled cars, lorries, and a car transporter. Some reports said the crash went on for 10 minutes as cars continuously collided with each other.

Driver Martin Stammers said the scene was "horrendous" and described seeing cars under lorries and people lying on the floor.

He said visibility was about 10 to 20 yards when he approached the bridge and saw five cars smashed into each other with one across the outside lane.

He said he managed to squeeze through a gap between that car and the central reservation, he said.

"For 10 minutes afterwards, all we could hear was screeching, cars thudding into each other, lorries crashing," he added.

He said he and his son ran to warn other drivers and warn cars to slow down.

"Later, a woman came up to us sobbing saying, 'thank you, thank you, you saved my life'," he said.
'Smashed cars everywhere'

Jaime Emmett, a 19-year-old student who was driving through the fog, said she managed to stop in time but a van collided with her car, and she then hit a car in front.

She said the fog was so thick she could only see a few cars ahead but added: "All I could hear was the cars smashing in front of each other and I could not know how far ahead the accident was."

Later she said she could see "smashed cars everywhere", a lorry that had crashed into the central reservation, and ambulance crews helping injured people with one team carrying a man in a stretcher.

Ch Insp Andy Reeves said the crash was over a "protracted area" with undamaged vehicles between others which had collided.

The injured people were taken to six different hospitals.
'Hazardous fog'

When asked if the fog had caused the crash, Mr Reeves said it was "too early" to give a cause but added the "weather will be a factor".

"It was... very hazardous. It was described to me as a very thick fog and it was certainly low visibility at the time."

He said he expected the crossing to remain closed in both directions for the whole of the working day, including the evening rush hour.

The front of the crash happened where traffic was coming off the bridge towards Sittingbourne, and it had then "concertinaed" over the bridge behind it with incidents stretching back to Queenborough, he said.

Mr Reeves said there could also be a small number of incidents on the northbound carriageway.

Police said if people had to make essential journeys to the island they could use the old Kingsferry Bridge, but should expect long delays.

Sittingbourne and Sheppey MP Gordon Henderson said he had previously had concerns about lighting on the bridge and said he would be asking questions of the authorities about the accident.

He added: "Today my concerns must rest solely with the people that have been injured on the bridge."

The £100m four-lane crossing, which connects the Isle of Sheppey with mainland Kent, opened in 2006 and is 0.75 miles (1.25km) long and rises to 115ft (35m) at its highest point.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-23970047

woody33

Poor feckers.

chainsawman

Thank God for no death... But the worst affected will be the insurance company who will have to fork out millions in claims in damages and injuries.

testicle

chainsawman wrote: »

Thank God for no death... But the worst affected will be the insurance company who will have to fork out millions in claims in damages and injuries.

which one pays out?

kirving

testicle wrote: »

which one pays out?

I don't think all the blame could be put one one driver, even if they did cause the initial incident. It'll end up being broken up into individual accidents further down the queue of cars I'd say.

corktina

the Insurance Companies will probably all pay their own claims

Qualitymark

corktina wrote: »

the Insurance Companies will probably all pay their own claims

Don't worry, they'll reap it back off the motorists by raising prices.

So sorry to hear of this; poor people.

Sterling Archer

Frightening situation to be in, probably happened quiet simply too, almost could have happened on my way to work this morning outside limerick, thick fog and crazy people doing over 120kph up the outside lane

joujoujou

Qualitymark wrote: »

[...] poor people.

Many of them (if not most) at their own fault. Driving without lights, too fast in such weather condition is asking for trouble.

CiniO

This is frightening:

One witness said visibility had been very poor at the time of the crash but drivers were approaching the crossing with no lights.

In a dense fog lights are absolute must. But for some reason drivers in UK (and unfortunately Ireland) for some reason don't like using lights, and wouldn't turn them on even in fog, and if they do they only turn side lights which are of absolutely no use in fog.

joujoujou

CiniO wrote: »

[...]


In an any fog lights are absolute must. [...]

FYP. :pac:

Bigcheeze

Shane_ef wrote: »

Frightening situation to be in, probably happened quiet simply too, almost could have happened on my way to work this morning outside limerick, thick fog and crazy people doing over 120kph up the outside lane

It's amazing, have seen people drive like this on the M1. People get a false sense of security by being able to see the rear lights of the car in front but can only see a quarter of their stopping distance ahead.

ardmacha

While lights are part of the issue here, this was a dual carriageway, traffic was all in the same direction. The problem is excessive speed and tailgating. People normally take 40 minutes to drive to work at 50-60mph and they are unwilling to be 40 minutes late by driving at 30mph even though their sightline only warrents that speed. It requires great discipline to drive on a motorway/dual carriageway designed for high speeds at one third of that speed because it is foggy. Most people don't have that discipline.

Sterling Archer

CiniO wrote: »

This is frightening:


In a dense fog lights are absolute must. But for some reason drivers in UK (and unfortunately Ireland) for some reason don't like using lights, and wouldn't turn them on even in fog, and if they do they only turn side lights which are of absolutely no use in fog.

This is why we should have a law like Norway - to have dipped headlights always on - I always have my lights on once the car , and I encourage people to do it, although it's amazing the amount of people that point out my lights on when driving during the day.

corktina

headlights are not the issue...rear foglights are what are called for in fog.

visual

Only takes a couple of idiots to have a mismatch in speed. Middle lane hogger driving too slowly and a few cars approaching quickly forced to brake hard and ripple effect on following traffic causes crashes.

Popoutman

corktina wrote: »

headlights are not the issue...rear foglights are what are called for in fog.

Not once you can clearly see the dips of the car behind you. Keeping your foglight on e.g. in a slow queue of traffic at a junction is more dangerous as you will dazzle the driver behind, making it a lot harder to differentiate when the brake lights come on.

Put the rear foglights on only when you can't see the car behind you in the fog..

ardmacha

Middle lane hogger driving too slowly and a few cars approaching quickly forced to brake hard and ripple effect on following traffic causes crashes.

Ah yes it was fault of the person driving at a speed where they could see, not those driving in excess of that speed who crashed into them.

fricatus

I find it a very tricky and stressful business to drive in fog. On the one hand you need to be able to see your stopping distance. On the other hand, if that means that you have to drive at 50 km/h, is there a point where you run a greater risk of being rear-ended by some speedster than actually running into someone yourself?

JustAddWater

joujoujou wrote: »

Many of them (if not most) at their own fault. Driving without lights, too fast in such weather condition is asking for trouble.

But don't you know, they've done it loads of times and it was never a problem before in all their 20 years of NCB driving

corktina

Popoutman wrote: »

Not once you can clearly see the dips of the car behind you. Keeping your foglight on e.g. in a slow queue of traffic at a junction is more dangerous as you will dazzle the driver behind, making it a lot harder to differentiate when the brake lights come on.

Put the rear foglights on only when you can't see the car behind you in the fog..

that's dangerous in fog as this morning kind of proves....fog isn't of a constant thickness and diving on ordinary taillights is lethal if there is a sudden thickening. No wonder such pile-ups happen if people think like you!

visual

fricatus wrote: »

I find it a very tricky and stressful business to drive in fog. On the one hand you need to be able to see your stopping distance other hand, if that means that you have to drive at 50 km/h, is there a point where you run a greater risk of being rear-ended by some speedster than actually running into someone yourself?

Getting the balance right is always difficult. Avoiding sudden changes in speed and being in the correct lane will help. all those little rules that we all infringe become more important in unusual road condisions.
When under and over cautious type meet its never a good result.

Nothing worse than a idiot slowing to a craw in overtaking lane while the left lanes are empty. It causes the following traffic to brake. In heavy traffic each car has to brake harder than the one in front and while the first car only slowed the cars towards the rear are forced to stop more and more violently.

There is a high probability the over cautious driver is at home looking at this on the news totally obvious to the carnage left behind them.

Still doesn't excuse those who drive too fast without maintaining a safe distance to the car in front. But in fairness if you in the middle of fast flowing heavy traffic there is little you can do if your forced to make emergency stop other than hope you and the cars around you have enough time to stop.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

headlights are not the issue...rear foglights are what are called for in fog.

I disagree.
Dipped headlights (or front foglights) are the same important during fog, as rear fog lights.

On normal single carriage way roads with junctions it's obvious that you need to see oncoming cars.
On motorways - you need to see if there is nothing coming when you are changing a lane, which in fog with people not using lights can be a great problem.

CiniO

Shane_ef wrote: »

This is why we should have a law like Norway - to have dipped headlights always on - I always have my lights on once the car , and I encourage people to do it, although it's amazing the amount of people that point out my lights on when driving during the day.

I agree that we should have a law to use lights 24/7 all year round.

But not because they are needed at all times - I think they are not.
We should have such law, because this would prevent all the idiots on the road who don't bother using any lights when they are needed, from driving without lights.

CiniO

fricatus wrote: »

I find it a very tricky and stressful business to drive in fog. On the one hand you need to be able to see your stopping distance. On the other hand, if that means that you have to drive at 50 km/h, is there a point where you run a greater risk of being rear-ended by some speedster than actually running into someone yourself?

fricatus - I live and drive in Ireland for the last 7 years, and haven't seen a really dense fog yet here.
In general fog in Ireland is quite rare occurance, and even if it's there - it's not really dense.
I've driven many times (not in IReland) in fog where visibility was about 1 maybe 2 metres, so you can hardly see anything in front of you. This is really tricky.

To prevent being rear ended by speedster, having rear fog light might help.

CiniO

Popoutman wrote: »

Not once you can clearly see the dips of the car behind you. Keeping your foglight on e.g. in a slow queue of traffic at a junction is more dangerous as you will dazzle the driver behind, making it a lot harder to differentiate when the brake lights come on.

Put the rear foglights on only when you can't see the car behind you in the fog..

For that reason, in most EU countries, it's illegal to use rear fog lights, unless visibility falls below 50 metres.

HeidiHeidi

CiniO wrote: »

I agree that we should have a law to use lights 24/7 all year round.

But not because they are needed at all times - I think they are not.
We should have such law, because this would prevent all the idiots on the road who don't bother using any lights when they are needed, from driving without lights.

This, with bells on!

And not just fog (without wishing to drag this thread even further o/t) - the amount of vehicles I've seen in really heavy, thick rain where a huge back-shower is thrown up, with nary a light to be seen, is truly scary. Especially the grey ones, whcih just happen to be exactly the same colour as the sky/road/cloud/mist/rain! Or, as someone else posted earlier, those who do put on their lights - but only the tiddly little sidelights which you wouldn't see on a dark moonless night, never mind in bad visibility.

Boils my brains :mad:

Back on topic, sympathies to all those poor sods involved in the pile-up today. I hope they're off the bridge by now......

corktina

CiniO wrote: »

I disagree.
Dipped headlights (or front foglights) are the same important during fog, as rear fog lights.

On normal single carriage way roads with junctions it's obvious that you need to see oncoming cars.
On motorways - you need to see if there is nothing coming when you are changing a lane, which in fog with people not using lights can be a great problem.

Headlights weren't the issue in this accident....dual carriageway.... it's the rear fogs that are crucial in this instance.

And as for not putting them on if you can see the guy behinds lights...well obviously headlights are brighter than taillights and just because you can see the guy behind, it doesn't mean he can see you

Popoutman

I'll clarify then.

If I am behind a car that is dazzling me with the rear foglight on - that makes it harder for me to drive safely as there is much less difference in brightness ahead when the driver's brakelights activate ahead. If I'm in city traffic - there's no need for a foglight when in a queue of traffic.

It's one of those things that is dynamic - when to switch them on and off. If you are last in a queue of cars, then by all means keep the rear fogs on. Once you have a car driving close enough behind you that you are dazzling them, then be safe and switch the rear fogs off. Once that car is no longer visible to the rear, put the foglights back on..

If the fog is bad enough that dips are proving impossible to drive easily in (10m or less visibility), I'll happily crawl along with fogs on front and back. I have found that driving in such poor visiblity conditions can be made a lot easier if I drop to front fogs only - properly aligned front fogs that have a proper cutoff can be easier to drive with as the low angle and higher brightness closer to the ground can make the difference between being able to drive and not when there's too much glare from the dips, but YMMV.

corktina

dazzled? then back off...much safer to do that anyway


your " switch them back on when you can no longer see the car behind" is madness,,,headlights are far more visible than taillights and you will have disappeared to the following driver a while back.

GTE

Popoutman wrote: »

I'll clarify then.

If I am behind a car that is dazzling me with the rear foglight on - that makes it harder for me to drive safely as there is much less difference in brightness ahead when the driver's brakelights activate ahead. If I'm in city traffic - there's no need for a foglight when in a queue of traffic.

Although that is the driving style I have adopted (switching rear fog lights on/off by checking the situation regularly) I do not feel that your point about light differentiation is a good one at all.

Firstly, if one is dazzled by rear fog lights while on the move then I feel the driver is staying too close to the car in front. I have never been dazzled by fog lights when on the move in fog and during the daytime I have never been dazzled by misuse of rear fog lights. I am saying that as someone who is fairly "religious" about 2 second rules and what not.

Secondly, I do not see how differentiation of lights could ever be an issue as most cars have a lopsided arrangement (one side reverse, the other fog). Even if there is a double reverse, double fog arrangement, I have yet to come across a car that has a fog light share duties with brake lights.

I do agree with dynamic usage of rear fogs, in a similar way that front main beams are generally used dynamically however where main beams can change from corner to corner, I only change the rear fogs on/off when there are pretty dramatic changes in conditions for a foreseeable stretch like a straight patch of road. With that said, there is such little point in doing it and more often than not I feel like I am doing it more to shove it in the face of the people who see fog for a mile of their 50 mile journey and leave the damn things on all day. So even my dynamic usage is on shaky ground. I guess this "habit" ensures that I do switch them off immediately when I feel they are not needed instead of making a "switch them on and forget about it" mistake.

I feel that if anyone wants to use the differentiation of lights being displayed as a reason against the use of any vehicle lighting, then I don't think enough attention is being paid which in combination with not leaving enough space in front is a recipe for utter disaster.

Taylor365

I've only had 1 occasion traveling up the M1 one frosty November night where i encountered blinding fog.

Literally could only see the Golf 5 metres in front of me because of the brake lights. Needless to say we were at a snails pace for a good few miles. Think there was only 1 or 2 cars in front of the Golf at the time as i was never overtaken and there was nothing behind me.

Very eery feeling.

I can only assume that this crash, like many you see on freeways in the states, is a case of zoned out motorway drivers who expect there forward path to be clear at all times and should never need to brake.

fricatus

CiniO wrote: »

fricatus - I live and drive in Ireland for the last 7 years, and haven't seen a really dense fog yet here.
In general fog in Ireland is quite rare occurance, and even if it's there - it's not really dense.

Maybe it's different in Mayo, but here in the south-east, it's far from a rare occurrence. Waterford has lots of foggy mornings in autumn, but the funny thing is that sometimes it's very low lying, so you can't see 10m in front of you down at the river, but when you're up on the hills, you can see the buildings poking through - very picturesque!

There's a particular stretch of the M9 just north of Mullinavat where when you're heading northbound, you can see the fog sitting on the landscape a couple of miles ahead. Very pretty once again, but then when you drive into it, you suddenly can't see. :eek:

CiniO wrote: »

I've driven many times (not in IReland) in fog where visibility was about 1 maybe 2 metres, so you can hardly see anything in front of you. This is really tricky. help.

In fairness I've rarely seen it get that bad, but even 10m visibility is tough going on a motorway.

CiniO wrote: »

To prevent being rear ended by speedster, having rear fog light might help.

Oh I do, trust me!

corktina

Taylor365 wrote: »

I've only had 1 occasion traveling up the M1 one frosty November night where i encountered blinding fog.

Literally could only see the Golf 5 metres in front of me because of the brake lights. Needless to say we were at a snails pace for a good few miles. Think there was only 1 or 2 cars in front of the Golf at the time as i was never overtaken and there was nothing behind me.

Very eery feeling.

I can only assume that this crash, like many you see on freeways in the states, is a case of zoned out motorway drivers who expect there forward path to be clear at all times and should never need to brake.

5 metres? I hope that's an exaggeration, you should be a lot further back.

Sobanek

corktina wrote: »

5 metres? I hope that's an exaggeration, you should be a lot further back.

Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule

Sterling Archer

More on the story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-23984059

The A249 bridge was closed for nine hours while the wreckage was cleared. It partially reopened at 17:30 BST.

It is three-quarters of a mile (1.25km) long and rises to 115ft (35m) at its highest point.

In 2006 the then Chief Constable of Kent, Mike Fuller, said there were "significant concerns" over the safety of the bridge.

Mr Fuller also called for a speed limit reduction on the bridge - it is currently the national limit of 70mph.

Sterling Archer

Video from the BBC, up close http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23970933

Taylor365

corktina wrote: »

5 metres? I hope that's an exaggeration, you should be a lot further back.

At the 5 metre stage, we were going pretty slow as couldn' see squat!