DIVA magazine a Mens Interest

Ambersky

This is a small issue but that's what the difficulty with Lesbian invisibility, its a whole load of little issues, absences, things not said or shown
Ive been buying Diva magazine for a few years now so I am used to having to contend with the dilemma some shop managers seem to have in figuring out just where to put this magazine.
They don’t seem to be able to cope with putting Diva in amongst the large and diverse area of Women’s Interests, presumably because a lesbian magazine might have something in it about sex which may shock readers of Cosmopolitan and Glamour.
I mean say the word lesbian and everyone immediately thinks about sex right!
The cover of this months Diva looks like this





Now Cosmopolitan and Glamour hardly miss a month without telling us the latest 10 tips on getting or giving the best orgasm but that’s heterosexual sex and magazines like that can be sold in prime areas, at eye line and right in the middle of Women’s Interests.
So because lesbians are all about sex and Diva is a Lesbian magazine they put it where the rest of the sex magazines go, top shelf in Mens Interests, in with Nuts and Zoo and if we are lucky Lesbians may be given company with a bit more class as in next to FHM GQ or Esquire. Sometimes I have seen Diva displayed again top shelf and in Mens Interests but next to Gay Male magazines like Attitude. But sorry guys and gals that’s still not getting it right.

Diva is a Lesbian magazine of interest to lesbians and other women primarily. Lesbians are women. Diva belongs in the Women’s Interests section of magazine stores. Displaying it anywhere else is an expression of the discomfort of the people who placed it there and their lack of understanding of lesbians as ordinary women.

That’s only part of the story of course because some women can find it difficult going into a shop and picking up a copy of Diva especially when first coming out or questioning their sexuality. Having to go over to the top shelf men’s magazine section only makes that exploration seem all the more seedy and furtive.

Today I was delighted to find a copy of Diva in my local Super Value. OK it was beside Nuts or Big Boobies or something but I was glad to see it going more local.
I did as I always do in this situation, I asked to speak to the manager. Now sometimes, or rarely enough to be honest about it , the managers get the point straight away, if not it has to be explained to them which can be arduous. The manager in Easons Swords Pavillion burst out laughing when I pointed out where they had put Diva and said "Thats very good, I have a friend who will love this, youve made my day" it took her a while to stop laughing . But that was the best reaction ever.
Today I did a show and tell because the manager in my local shop said she didn’t know where Diva should go if they didn’t place it top shelf in Mens Interests. I handed her a copy of Diva and asked her to come with me while we looked for Cosmopolitan. I said I understood she probably thought there was a lot of sex in Diva that would be difficult for customers to look at so I asked her to flick through Diva while I flicked through Cosmopolitan. On that compare and contrast Diva fared very well and wasnt showing anything more shocking than Cosmo. In fact it was a bit difficult to find any sexy bits in Diva at all. Then we went back to the Mens Section and I took down a copy of the magazine they thought was more suitable to place Diva next to, a copy of Nuts I think and again asked the manager to flick through Diva while I flicked through Nuts in comparison. I also explained about some women finding it difficult to purchase Diva in the first place when they are not too confident and that some women don’t feel comfortable about the idea of the only Lesbian magazine available being sold amongst what is basically masturbation material. She said she could understand these issues and would think about it

So what do any of you think about this, does it matter, would you or have you already taken it upon yourself to talk to someone in a shop about it, have you ever bought the magazine and was it ever difficult for you to buy something that was obviously of lesbian or gay interest.

pharmaton

I've bought it a few times, haven't actually seen it in quite a while although I don't know if that's because it's less visible or because it's no longer stocked where I bought it previously. Fair play for taking it up with the manager, I found it difficult enough to purchase without feeling like a raincoated type pervert but then I live in a small enough town.
Tesco used stock it among the ladies section, closer to the other niche magazines like "Spirit & Destiny" etc although I could see the reasoning in having it top shelf as I do remember some issues having more overtly sexualised covers, not exactly explicit but definitely a little more graphic than Take a Break!

Haven't had a need to buy in a while, (a couple of years) I found it fairly dull at the best of times but it's probably because there's a lot more content freely available online these days.

baby and crumble

When I was a youngster I'd occasionally buy DIVA in Easons in Heuston Station on the way home for the weekend. It was like taking a little bit of Dublin me home. Usually it was on the top shelf, next to Attitude and Gay Times, but not really near NUTS or any of them. The only issue I'd have is that a lot of women are short, and the likelihood of a little baby gay asking someone to get it down for her... yeah not all that likely.

I remember once I sat down on the train and another girl came and began reading her copy of DIVA. I felt like brandishing my copy in her face and going "WOOOO!!!" She even got off in my town. I was too chicken to do anything about it though. Sucks too cos she was cute. :mad:

I used to get looks buying it, but tbh I so don't any more. Growing into myself has made the nerves at buying a lesbian magazine disappear, and tbh if anyone looks at me and is surprised to hear I'm gay, well...

Also TBH it's rubbish now. I much prefer the likes of Autostraddle and the various tumblrs.

Ambersky

I havent bought DIVA myself for quite a while because I was looking for better quality writing. There seems to have been a change in the magazine and if you look at the front page posted you will see they seem to be tackling a wider range of issues and pushing the readership a bit further. Also liked the models used inside the magazine for their fashion spread, their body sizes ranged much more widely than I have seen anywhere else.

If Attitude and Gay Times are top shelf in the Mens Section they are in with Nuts, Big Boobs etc. All of this is catering to its target audience of male sexuality. Attitude and Gay Times cater for gay males, they are not trying to be inclusively Lesbian/Gay magazines, they have a very explicit target audience Gay Males, there may be an occasional mention of a lesbian event or interest but that cant always be counted on. In the Mens Interest section of magazines I dont think the Gay Male magazines belong top shelf with magazines carrying mainly photos of naked women, soft porn, masturbation material either, I think they could be in with other mens magazines with writing etc more on a par with them. Gay male magazines are put top shelf because Gay Male sexuality is still sometimes considered risque. But at least they are still considered Men and of male interest, Gay Male magazines are never put over with Womens Interest magazines.

I think we need to look at why some people feel the need to take a magazine made for and targeted at women and say no I wont place this in with other womens magazines, it dosent belong there, it is too risque to be placed among even the sexiest of the womens magazines it belongs over with the magazines catering to male sexuality be it gay or straight or bi. It belongs in among the soft porn.

It is so easy to simply accept the lesbophobic social perception of lesbians. Its so easy we dont even see it we dont even see ourselves as legitimately belonging, complete with an open and equal expression of our sexuality, in amongst all other women. We are so used to being hidden, sidelined and considered semi porn material we don't even notice or object.

I think we need to look at why we feel DIVA belongs top shelf and thats not getting at anybody because I think thats not our fault its social conditioning, you dont see lesbophobia because you are not suppose to see it, it poses as normal.
So I pose a challenge.
Find a DIVA cover that cant be matched, thats that much closer to porn than magazines targeted at the heterosexual womens audience, that it has to be placed top shelf.
Go on, find one that I cant match with another cover from an acceptable mid shelf womens magazine.

pharmaton

mm.. it's not as explicit as a lot of mens mags but I see why they might take the decision not to place it alongside more mainstream womens gossip mags, like "chat & take a break" etc. There's not many covers available in the archive so that's the best I could select but if memory serves me well, they used to be a tad more overt. There's a reference to group sex on the front cover and in the same breath, an article about why you should be a feminist. I actually laughed out loud writing that bit. What an amazing portrayal of lesbians. It sounds like the needs of a very niche market to me. Maybe not top shelf material but it definitely seems to have been toned down more recently, maybe that's a good thing.

I'll take a look later if I'm passing the bookstore just to see if I can notice where it is though.

Ambersky

Its not that there is no sex in DIVA, god forbid, just that DIVA has as many sexy covers as other womens magazines. Sometimes its pretty straightforward and no skin bared and sometimes it has. Its the same for other womens magazines, some are very traditional but there are others that have sex - including group sex as a topic- on every cover, talked about in print or have a very sexy cover with some baring of skin.
Dont see incompatability with group sex and feminism.

Why is this bare skin ok mid shelf and with womens magazines and the image above is not?


or

pharmaton

"I said no to sex..and got sexier" -
heh.


Look at the content Ambersky.
Brunch on the deck or group sex?

Ambersky

Nope dont understand the problem pharmaton. I dont have a problem with brunch on the deck or consensual group sex.
Im not saying DIVA is the best lesbian magazine ever or that it has to cater to everyone but it is the only Lesbian magazine sold in Irish mainstream stores. Thats the problem with any lesbian venture women want it to cater to too wide a group. It caters to the lesbians it caters to, those who they think will buy a magazine.
Im not saying it should be sold in with teen age magazines but in with magazines targeted at women which are comparable, like Cosmo etc..all of which used sex as a selling point since forever.
Of course I am going to be able to find sexy covers with bare skin and suggestive couples for any DIVA cover, thats because it is not shocking and normal.

On the main point pharmaton do you think it should be sold top shelf Mens Interest?

pharmaton

Ambersky wrote: »

Nope dont understand the problem pharmaton. I dont have a problem with brunch on the deck or consensual group sex.
Im not saying DIVA is the best lesbian magazine ever or that it has to cater to everyone but it is the only Lesbian magazine sold in Irish mainstream stores. Thats the problem with any lesbian venture women want it to cater to too wide a group. It caters to the lesbians it caters to, those who they think will buy a magazine.
Im not saying it should be sold in with teen age magazines but in with magazines targeted at women which are comparable, like Cosmo etc..all of which used sex as a selling point since forever.
Of course I am going to be able to find sexy covers with bare skin and suggestive couples for any DIVA cover, thats because it is not shocking and normal.

On the main point pharmaton do you think it should be sold top shelf Mens Interest?

no, but I've never found it there, I've stated I found it previously in the womens interest shelf but in the more niche sections. It would be ridiculous to have it placed in mens interest I don't see the logic in it. All I'm saying is I can see the reasoning behind having it placed apart from more mainstream womens mags. (ie: on a higher shelf)

p.s. I must be getting old cause I'd prefer brunch on the deck these days.

baby and crumble

I was in Easons today and Diva was on the top shelf, but in the Womens section. I suppose someone has to be up top.

I agree that lesbianism in general is not accepted as easily or is as part of the discussion as gay men. I don't know why that is. If you look at the likes of GCN, for example, which in many ways is a great magazine. But how much of it is even remotely related to female specific concerns, as opposed to male specific? Even this forum. It's dominated by gay male concerns and issues.

I personally think some of that stirs from a lack of belief, deep down, that satisfactory sex cannot occur without a penis. The idea that it might is threatening to a lot of people.

Ambersky

I'm just jealous pharmaton nobody's offering me sex on the deck these days but I'm not going to object to anyone else having it.
Baby and crumble yep someone's gonna have to take top shelf. Never thought about top shelf for sex reasons in women's section but so long as it is with comparable mags In The Women's section Im happy.
I have spoken to managers in Easons O'Connell St, Heuston station and Swords Pavillion when I saw Diva in Men's Interests. Little chats like that from customers willing to discuss the issue from their own perspective can change things but first it has to change in your own head. I think lesbians when we have been use to "being discreet" or hiding our sexuality don't automatically think we deserve to be included in with all other women, included with our sexuality sense of style and diversity, on an equal footing with all other women.
Pharmaton I accept you are saying there is quite a bit of sexual content in Diva but I think you may be underestimating the huge amount of sexual content in some mainstream women's magazines.

rpe

I buy Diva in Easons in Cork City. It used to be in the Womens Interest but a good few months ago they started putting it in the Mens Interest. I honestly wouldn't have spotted it only I knew who was on the front cover. I was on the lookout for the lovely Heather Peace. It happened about twice and then I e-mailed Easons to say that as a magazine aimed at lesbians it probably didn't belong in the Mens Interest and it was moved back to the Womens Interest side. I think maybe at a cursory glance and not familiar with the publication, you might lump it in with the all the lads mags. Although to me it seems very obviously a magazine for gay women.

pharmaton

By brunch I very much mean a croissant (maybe a choc au pan) and freshly pressed coffee but fúck it I give up.

littleteapot

I work in a branch of Easons and it used to make me laugh where we had to put Diva to stick with the planogram. It used to be kept in a hidden corner of women's interests beside The Lady, Majesty and The People's Friend - hardly similar interests! That was a couple of years ago. The magazine section got refitted about 2 years ago and Diva was moved to the top shelf, but still in women's Interests. The shop got completely refitted again recently and now Diva has been moved to a much more prominent position. It's right in the middle of Women's Interests, at eye level, and with a proper face-out that everyone can see. GT and Attitude and the other gay men's magazines are also very prominently displayed at eye level in the men's section. I haven't heard any complaints from uptight customers, but I can't wait to tell them where to go if they do complain.