Turntable advice?

mk6705

So digital DJing is great, but I've been thinking of getting a turntable (and probably a second!) to plug into my controller (Traktor Kontrol S4, also the mixer in this case). The rationale behind this is first that there are lots of amazing, classic tracks only available on vinyl. I like to mix only lossless music or at very minimum 320k MP3s so for a lot of tracks getting the vinyl is the only option.
Secondly, vinyl DJing has always intrigued me and looks fun. I've messed around with it a little.
Thirdly, it would be nice to have if paired with a timecoded vinyl.
At the moment, it's mainly for fun.

Anyway I know a reasonable amount about turntables but I do have one or two questions.

1) What turntable would you recommend for this? I assume most turntables don't have much pitch range, I don't want that anyway. I already use 4% on the controller's pitch slider and 2% would be fine, especially when trying to keep things in key.
2) Needles? I don't know a lot about them, besides a good one being essential. I kinda know the science behind it, what I'm looking for here really are brand names.
3) Degradation of vinyl? I'm imagine vinyls can degrade quickly if not looked after, but with normal enough (DJ) use how much would they degrade? (I understand there are a lot of variables there) I'll be digitising them first thing when I get them.

I'd probably be looking a Technics mainly at the moment, any other brand I should be looking for? What do you have and how do you find it?

All advice appreciated!

frozenfrozen

technics 1200s/1210s are the standard. Shure whitelable / M447 or really any concordes would be good needles to use.

francois

Technics all the way

copeyhagen

buy a set of cdjs, they give you a similar hands on feel to vinyl.

just went from controllers to cdjs and its the msot fun i have had since i sold my 1210s like 6 years ago.

u can keep all ur music on your laptop too and just play it off the cdjs...

win win

milltown

copeyhagen wrote: »

buy a set of cdjs, they give you a similar hands on feel to vinyl.

just went from controllers to cdjs and its the msot fun i have had since i sold my 1210s like 6 years ago.

u can keep all ur music on your laptop too and just play it off the cdjs...

win win

Doesn't really solve the OP's problem of some tunes only being available on vinyl though.

OP, my €0.02 would be Technics turntables. It's pretty hard to buy a bad cartridge/stylus tbh. Just make sure you get something aimed at DJing and dance music. I'm very happy with Shure M44Gs.

No doubt somebody will suggest getting Traktor scratch, seeing as you already have the S4. If you don't know, it will let you control your digital music files' pitch, speed, jogging etc. using special timecode vinyls on the turntables. I know SFA about it beyond that but have always been curious how/if it might work if you wanted to play a mix of records and digital files.

holystungun9

Buy and know the joy that are technics turntables. I'm not knocking all others as I had a set of stanton direct drives before and I really liked them, but the technics are so nice (once they haven't been really used and abused).

djfattony2000

Yeh you can get some cheap Technics 2nd hand these days.

There are some going very cheap on Adverts.

I have the Shure M44-7 cartridges and haven't changed the stylus' since I bought them (12 years ago!)

ThirdMan

Another vote for Technics and Shure M447's.

I don't think you'll regret buying a pair, but you definitely won't regret buying one. It's a great resource. It'll open up a whole world of vinyl to you. That way you can mess about on it, and also archive those tracks for your digital set-up. And if you really get into it you can always add a second unit.

But don't be skimpy. Go for Technics. You'll understand why when it's in front of you. And be prepared to totally lose interest in the digital stuff. I bought mine along with Traktor Scratch so I could mess around with my digital collection. Needless to say my WAVs are collecting more dust than my records!

ThirdMan

Regrading vinyl degradation. Well I'm a relative newcomer, so I haven't experienced it. But I've read stuff online about how important it is to have the stylus and cartridge mounted correctly, at the correct angle, at the correct weight, etc. All of these factors, when handled badly, can increase degradation. So an informed and responsible attitude toward your equipment is important. And that goes for storing and cleaning your records.

Also, I've read load of interviews with DJs over the years about how they've been hammering a certain track week in week out for years. You'll hear loads of that kinda stuff from vinyl DJs. Now I know that's only anecdotal evidence, but if professional DJs can get that kinda usage out of a piece of vinyl, it should be good enough for you and I. I wouldn't worry about it.

SamAK

So OP, did you end up buying anything?

Got a pair of 1210's yesterday myself....

tashiusclay

SamAK wrote: »

So OP, did you end up buying anything?

Got a pair of 1210's yesterday myself....

Got my first pair of 1210's a few weeks ago, dying to spin a few tracks on them!

SamAK

ThirdMan wrote: »

Go for Technics. You'll understand why when it's in front of you.

Amen to that! 40 years off the drawing board, fundamentally unchanged and still the king of dj turntables, well.....if that's not proof of design excellence and pedigree than I don't know what is..

tashiusclay wrote: »

Got my first pair of 1210's a few weeks ago, dying to spin a few tracks on them!

Same as that, gonna have to wait a couple of weeks for needles though (gonna go for Shure M44G I think, lots of good words said about them), they're just sitting in my room looking pretty at the moment. Expensive furniture..

Also need a bloody mixer! I like the look of the Pioneer DJM250, only 200 quid new. http://www.thomann.de/ie/pioneer_djm_250_w.htm

debabyjesus

If you bought 1210s second hand there are loads of good videos on youtube on how to set them up properly, like height and anti skate. Also how to take them apart and service them for speed and pitch control. Then finally if your good with a soldering iron look at the youtube vids for replacing the probably crappie phono leads, full led upgrades and removing the ground cable. All do-able and good for the deck.

debabyjesus

Dp

tashiusclay

SamAK wrote: »

Amen to that! 40 years off the drawing board, fundamentally unchanged and still the king of dj turntables, well.....if that's not proof of design excellence and pedigree than I don't know what is..


Same as that, gonna have to wait a couple of weeks for needles though (gonna go for Shure M44G I think, lots of good words said about them), they're just sitting in my room looking pretty at the moment. Expensive furniture..

Also need a bloody mixer! I like the look of the Pioneer DJM250, only 200 quid new. http://www.thomann.de/ie/pioneer_djm_250_w.htm

Are you planning to use serato or traktor etc or just records? I'm just finishing off building a mixing desk for my setup, almost finished and nearly ready to rock

SamAK

tashiusclay wrote: »

Are you planning to use serato or traktor etc or just records?

Records for now, but getting Traktor scratch for sure...now that we're on the subject, any Scratch users here? - if you want to mix a digital track into a real record, is there a switch on the audio card to go between phono/line in or is it through the software settings?

iamstop

Interesting question about the vinyl degradation that not many are answering here. Got me thinking.
The first 2 album I bought on vinyl about 16 or 17 years ago are still in VG to NM condition.
I have DJed them out a reasonable amount. I do like to think I take good care of my records though. I've see how some other DJs are less careful and it deffo shows when yo look through their records.
I have inadvertently damaged some records in my time but by and large being careful all the time is little effort and can vastly improve the life span of your records.

SamAK

iamstop wrote: »

Interesting question about the vinyl degradation that not many are answering here. Got me thinking

I haven't yet experienced wear first hand but thought of a couple of things that may or may not factor in how fast records degrade!

- Turntable setup: i'd assume that tracking weight, anti-skate, type of needle, height adjust etc have an big influence.

- Mixing style: scratchers are probably harder on records than club mixers.

- Quality of the material - I see a lot of comments on Discogs about this release or that being pressed on sh1te quality vinyl, and demanding a re-press! That would lead me to believe that not all polyvinyl chloride is created equal!

http://www.discogs.com/Hackman-Forgotten-Notes/release/3727083

I was looking at this record a few weeks go and wondering why it has the same track on both sides...completely baffled me for a while!

end of the road

SamAK wrote: »

http://www.discogs.com/Hackman-Forgotten-Notes/release/3727083

I was looking at this record a few weeks go and wondering why it has the same track on both sides...completely baffled me for a while!

most likely it could be that theirs no other mixes of the track so they put the same 1 on both sides to make some use of them or they release a particular mix of a track for particular styles of djs (such as a trance remix of a track so djs can buy that vinyl rather then buying a record with mixes they don't want) . will depend on the person though, if for example theirs a single 12 and a double pack vinyl of the same track i will buy the double pack as in many cases where i buy my records it can actually be cheeper then the single 12 or around the same price, even if its a little bit more will still go for it as you can end up getting a better version of the track you haven't heard before that wasn't released on the single 12, but its all down to personal prefference, as for my needles, i've the stanton groovemasters, when i was buying them they seemed to be the best of the needles available where i got them, was going to go for ortofon but couldn't seem to find them oh well, anyone have the technics mk5s out of interest or am i one of very few here? love them myself i don't think i have to service them though as they have the digital pitch.

SamAK

end of the road wrote: »

most likely it could be that theirs no other mixes of the track so they put the same 1 on both sides to make some use of them

I still don't really get it though..going to all the trouble and expense of printing 300 vinyls...surely Hackman could have chucked another tune on the B side!


I met a dude recently with a pair of MK5G's signed by Grandmaster Flash when he played in Limerick, back in August. According to Flash - the MK5G's are supposed to be 'unofficially' endorsed by him, but Panasonic never asked his permission, even though he would have had no problem with doing it officially! Strange.

I'm just relaying what I was told, so don't quote me! But they were signed alright! The gold-flake black paintjob is lovely too.

end of the road

SamAK wrote: »

I still don't really get it though..going to all the trouble and expense of printing 300 vinyls...surely Hackman could have chucked another tune on the B side!

you would think, but i don't know, its strange all right

SamAK wrote: »

I met a dude recently with a pair of MK5G's signed by Grandmaster Flash when he played in Limerick, back in August. According to Flash - the MK5G's are supposed to be 'unofficially' endorsed by him, but Panasonic never asked his permission, even though he would have had no problem with doing it officially! Strange.

I'm just relaying what I was told, so don't quote me! But they were signed alright! The gold-flake black paintjob is lovely too.

yeah ment to say mk5gs lol, lovely machines, they don't have the controls to nudge the pitch though so you have to use the pitch reset and the pitch switch (thats the button to make the pitch control longer to pitch up or down when moved, theirs a name for it i'm sure)