I need advice/help !!!

specialist01

Hi, I recently got my car clamped by APCOA. I refused to pay the fine as I was wrongly clamped, I applied this decision to Independent Parking Appeals Service and I won... a victory for the small guy !!

But here is my problem. My car vanished after about a week from the car park, I naturally believed that APCOA removed my car as it states on the receipt the clamper gave me that "APCOA parking has the right to remove this vehicle at the owner`s expense"

I rang APCOA after I won my appeal to find out where I could get my car and they told me that they never removed my car !!! So my car must have been robbed. I do not want to go through insurance as I will only be paying higher insurance premiums for god knows how long

My car is only worth a about 3000 euro but it is money I cannot afford to just lose.

Do I have any legal rights ??

I tried taking a small claims action but they refused my claim.

Help Please.....

dudara

Who did you try to take a Small Claims Court case against?

If your car was stolen, then you need to report it to the Gardaí. Plus, does the car park have CCTV footage? The Gardaí can review that, if it's available.

specialist01

Hi Dudara

I tried to take APCOA to small claims to get value of car from them. I also have reported car stolen to Garda. The car was not on the pulse system so therefore it was not used to commit any crime.

There is no CCTV footage which is a pity, the car has just vanished which is hard to believe as someone would have had to get a pick up truck or an angle grinder to get clamp off.

Might have been taken for parts....

Paulw

It happened in our estate that a "tow truck" came around and took away two cars. Unfortunately, no one took a whole lot of notice, since everyone assumed that they were either being take for repair, or recovery or something. They were taken early morning (6-7am). They lifted one car on to the truck and towed the other.

Turns out, that they were actually stealing the cars.

In your case, other than reporting it stolen to the Gardai, you need to inform your insurance company.

foggy_lad

This happens a lot in the UK where people of a certain nomadic and often career criminal type will be looking out for vehicles which appear to be abandoned/left unattented for more then a few days. They would be in there and cut the clamp off and have the car on a low loader or up on a towing dolly in a few minutes, then back to the yard or site where it will be left out away from other vehicles for a while in case the police come looking for it(so it can't be linked to any person). then it will be stripped for the parts and the rest sold for scrap.

dudara

specialist01 wrote: »

I tried to take APCOA to small claims to get value of car from them. .

I don't know why you did that as there is no proof that they took the car.

If you have reported the theft to the Gardaí, then the next step is to talk to your insurance company and find out how to proceed. You don't have to lodge a claim straight away. Just speak to them first, share the details and find out the implications.

specialist01

Thanks lads, I just wanted to know if this was a common thing.. Cheers

camphor

specialist01 wrote: »

Hi Dudara

I tried to take APCOA to small claims to get value of car from them. I also have reported car stolen to Garda. The car was not on the pulse system so therefore it was not used to commit any crime.

There is no CCTV footage which is a pity, the car has just vanished which is hard to believe as someone would have had to get a pick up truck or an angle grinder to get clamp off.

Might have been taken for parts....

If you won your appeal you should succeed in a legal case against APCOA. Why did you go to the Small Claims Court? The limit is only €2,000 and the claim does not arise from a consumer transaction.

Paulw

camphor wrote: »

If you won your appeal you should succeed in a legal case against APCOA.

Why would a case win? APCOA didn't take the car. There is no proof that they did anything other than clamp the car. And then it was gone.

There is no case for APCOA to answer, and even taking a case against them would be a waste of the court's time. Besides, theft would be a criminal case, and it seems that the Gardai have no reason to suspect APCOA.

Bepolite

camphor wrote: »

If you won your appeal you should succeed in a legal case against APCOA. Why did you go to the Small Claims Court? The limit is only €2,000 and the claim does not arise from a consumer transaction.

I realise this isn't the legal discussions forum but that's an interesting statement to make. On what basis are you suggesting the OP might win, or indeed, even take a case?

camphor

Bepolite wrote: »

I realise this isn't the legal discussions forum but that's an interesting statement to make. On what basis are you suggesting the OP might win, or indeed, even take a case?

He was clearly clamped negligently. I would regard the loss of the car as flowing directly from their negligence. They alos committed a trespass to his goods since by immobilising the vehicle they detained it. They are also liable in detinue. t is possible also that the owner of the land may be sued also on the basis of vicarious liability.

dudara

I don't even understand how anyone could possibly make a connection between a clamping and a theft. There isn't a lot of love out there for private clampers, but I don't want it infecting this forum.

Rothmans

dudara wrote: »

I don't even understand how anyone could possibly make a connection between a clamping and a theft. There isn't a lot of love out there for private clampers, but I don't want it infecting this forum.

I think the point being made is that if the company hadn't illegally detained his car, the OP wouldn't be without his car and now facing a hike in his insurance premium. If the OP had negligently left his car lying around for days it'd be a different story, it was due rather to the negligence of the company that the OP finds himself in such an undesirable predicament.

dudara

I apologise if I am missing something, but there is currently no proof that the clamping company took his car.

Paulw

Rothmans wrote: »

I think the point being made is that if the company hadn't illegally detained his car, the OP wouldn't be without his car and now facing a hike in his insurance premium.

Can you prove that, or is it pure speculation?

ABajaninCork

Aren't there notices in the car parks disclaiming responsibility for loss/theft? The notices also say cars are left at the owner's risk.

In any case, the OP should report to the insurance. That's what it's there for. APCOA have no responsibility here, and a Small Claims case would probably fail.

Bepolite

camphor wrote: »

He was clearly clamped negligently. I would regard the loss of the car as flowing directly from their negligence. They alos committed a trespass to his goods since by immobilising the vehicle they detained it. They are also liable in detinue. t is possible also that the owner of the land may be sued also on the basis of vicarious liability.

That's a stretch at best and I don't see the detinue angle. OP could have quite easily paid the fine, retrieved the car and then made an appeal. He chose to leave his vehicle on site. While he might have some angle I think it's very misleading to suggest this is cut and dry, especially trying to link it back to the appeal he has made.

Paulw

ABajaninCork wrote: »

APCOA have no responsibility here, and a Small Claims case would probably fail.

He can't go to the small claims. They have already rejected his application, plus he has stated that the value of his car is more than can be claimed in the Small Claims Court.

camphor

Bepolite wrote: »

That's a stretch at best and I don't see the detinue angle. OP could have quite easily paid the fine, retrieved the car and then made an appeal. He chose to leave his vehicle on site. While he might have some angle I think it's very misleading to suggest this is cut and dry, especially trying to link it back to the appeal he has made.

The prevented his car from moving thus detaining it until they were paid. This was something that it was found they had no right to do. The fact that he could have paid and appealed later does not absolve APCOA.

Bepolite

camphor wrote: »

The prevented his car from moving thus detaining it until they were paid. This was something that it was found they had no right to do. The fact that he could have paid and appealed later does not absolve APCOA.

Well if nothing else it's an interesting angle to approach it from. I wouldn't be investing too much money in legal advice on point but perhaps a 'no foal no fee' solicitor might be as enthusatic as yourself.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The procedure is supposed to be that you pay the fine and then appeal. Had the OP followed this then the theft would not have occurred. He hasn't a snowballs chance in hell.

Didn't think much of, or have need for, his car if it could sit idle and ignored while waiting on an appeal to be processed.

camphor

Melvin Gentle Fish wrote: »

The procedure is supposed to be that you pay the fine and then appeal. Had the OP followed this then the theft would not have occurred. He hasn't a snowballs chance in hell.

Didn't think much of, or have need for, his car if it could sit idle and ignored while waiting on an appeal to be processed.

The pay first appeal later only applies to public authorities. He should not have been clamped and he cannot be taken to have consented to being clamped. The clampers wrongly detained the car and are obliged to deliver it up.

Paulw

camphor wrote: »

The clampers wrongly detained the car and are obliged to deliver it up.

How can they deliver what they do not have?? They have stated that they do not have the car. They simply clamped it. They are also missing property - their clamp was stolen too.

The car was stolen by an unknown person/group. Maybe you're missing that point in the thread.

dudara

Posters - we are not going to argue the legality of private clamping here. That can be done in the Legal Discussion forum.

dudara