Playing with the idea of getting a older diesel

Mister Jingles

Starting to think about moving on from my first car, not now but hopefully soon enough and am playing with the idea of going diesel. I have my heart (or so I think) set on a mk4 Golf 1.9 TDi 130 or 110 but don't really know much about them. Is there much difference between the two ? I could also be convinced to look at Bora's or Passets or even a A3 or A4 for the right money but only in diesel, I can't stand older VAG petrols.

I haven't really got a budget yet but I don't intend on spending more then 3,000. My only concern is justifying the tax on an old 1.9.

My other choices are the Focus 1.8 Tddi or the 1.6 petrol. I know enough about the 1.6 but not much on the diesel other then they are an old design going back to the Sierra days.

It's not a main priority but something that won't drink the juice on the motorways would be nice, my current 1.0 Micra breaks my heart once it's driving at 100km/h or more, I've never worked it out but I wouldn't be surprised if it's mpg is only in the low 30's or high 20's at those speeds.

I can't really think of any other cars that interest me within my budget and requirements but do mention as I was always ignorant to diesels. Nothing French though

cabb8ge

The french produced very good diesels of the vintage that would be in your budget. But if they not to your preference it not matter.

Mercedes c class diesel maybe?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/03-mercedes-c-2-2-diesel-automatic/5591301

Mister Jingles

cabb8ge wrote: »

The french produced very good diesels of the vintage that would be in your budget. But if they not to your preference it not matter.

Mercedes c class diesel maybe?
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/03-mercedes-c-2-2-diesel-automatic/5591301

I don't deny that they did but they were always lacking in other aspects and that's something that I could do without.

I like the look of those mercs, not too big not too small however at my age I would find it hard to insure one and the tax on a 2.2 is something like 800 quid ? Would be also looking for a manual.

Sleepy

406 Diesel maybe?

Toyotafanboi

i had a 1.8 tddi focus and found it great. the car was refined enough on the motorways and on long trips and not too thirsty around town, mine had 180k miles on the clock and drove very good, the engine never failed me. the car itself was good too, all electrics, central locking, air con etc... it was a little rusty around the back arches that's the only place i could fault it.

at 90bhp it wouldn't be winning any races but imo a mk4 golf wouldn't offer half as much in terms of kit and is a bit dull to look at too.

166man

Alfa 156 JTD?

dgt

Anything XUD powered, prefably pre 97 for even less electrics. There ya go

Mister Jingles

Sleepy wrote: »

406 Diesel maybe?

I was specifically referring to them in my last post about French cars, I know they have one of the best engines and there comfortable inside but isn't that where it all ends with them ?

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i had a 1.8 tddi focus and found it great. the car was refined enough on the motorways and on long trips and not too thirsty around town, mine had 180k miles on the clock and drove very good, the engine never failed me. the car itself was good too, all electrics, central locking, air con etc... it was a little rusty around the back arches that's the only place i could fault it.

at 90bhp it wouldn't be winning any races but imo a mk4 golf wouldn't offer half as much in terms of kit and is a bit dull to look at too.

Starting to hear of a lot of Focus's coming down with the rust disease these days, not as bad as the Fiesta's but still, I would of expected Ford would have ironed out that problem with them. I know that the central locking can give a bit of trouble so you were lucky I suppose.

If I was going to buy the Focus diesel though it would have to be the 115 as I have set myself a minimum of 100 bhp for my next car. One can only take so much of a 54bhp :pac:

But of course if you are ever thinking of selling the Glanza......:p

166man wrote: »

Alfa 156 JTD?

Aren't they not 2.4 ?

dgt wrote: »

Anything XUD powered, prefably pre 97 for even less electrics. There ya go

I was waiting for you to post

I wouldn't be going any older then 2001 so that rules that out.

TDI 130 and a remap to 160 !

Great engines and will go for 300,000 with proper care.

Noisy as hell, will rattle like a steam engine when you fire her up but loads of punch.

Should easily get 50 mpg driving sensibly enough.

A4 B6 is a good quality car and mine drove well with just over 200,000 when I sold it.

166man

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Aren't they not 2.4 ?

Some of them are but many are the 1.9JTD easily remapped too. Afaik it was Fiat who brought out the first common rail diesel engine.

Deleted User wrote: »

TDI 130 and a remap to 160 !

Great engines and will go for 300,000 with proper care.

Noisy as hell, will rattle like a steam engine when you fire her up but loads of punch.

Should easily get 50 mpg driving sensibly enough.

A4 B6 is a good quality car and mine drove well with just over 200,000 when I sold it.

Best of luck finding a TDI A4 that hasn't had the crap driven out of it.

Mister Jingles

Deleted User wrote: »

TDI 130 and a remap to 160 !

Great engines and will go for 300,000 with proper care.

Noisy as hell, will rattle like a steam engine when you fire her up but loads of punch.

Should easily get 50 mpg driving sensibly enough.

A4 B6 is a good quality car and mine drove well with just over 200,000 when I sold it.

I wouldn't even be interested in remapping it, though maybe further down the line I'd probably. How much do remaps cost anyway these days ?

Noise wouldn't bother me, my Micra can be loud enough as well in the morning for such a small engine.

166man wrote: »

Some of them are but many are the 1.9JTD easily remapped too. Afaik it was Fiat who brought out the first common rail diesel engine.



Best of luck finding a TDI A4 that hasn't had the crap driven out of it.

In that case I suppose the 147 is worth a look as well ? That essential maintenance talk that you hear of alfa's only goes for the petrols I suppose or both fuels ?

Yeah I like the A4's but sooner prefer VW but I suppose the same applies to all diesel VAG's having the **** driven out of them ?

166man

Mister Jingles wrote: »

In that case I suppose the 147 is worth a look as well ? That essential maintenance talk that you hear of alfa's only goes for the petrols I suppose or both fuels ?

Yeah I like the A4's but sooner prefer VW but I suppose the same applies to all diesel VAG's having the **** driven out of them ?

147 would certainly be worth a look although the older ones as in pre 2003 seem to be mostly petrols.

I can call a spade a spade here, you'll more than likely need more consumables such as suspension parts, and may need more care in general but my point would be that for you €3k you'd get much more Alfa diesel than VAG diesel if you get me so could try negate the higher maintenance that way?

A nice 1.9JTD 147 with 6 speed and leathers inside is a lovely place to be. Comfortable and economical. And they drive really well, basing this on a 156 but how different can they be!?

I'd advise you to look into it anyway even if nothing comes of it, any questions fire away and don't hesitate to ask!

worded

Try the UK for a a4 or passat 1.9 tdi ? Try get a 130 BHP
You will get a better spec in the UK

Old diesel

To be honest - a nice well minded late 406 is probably as good as anything else diesel in that price bracket.

Yes they have their flaws - but unless your family/friends etc have had a particularly horrific experience with one (always a massive turn off no matter how good a particular model is normally) - I can't see any reason to discount it.

Yes electrics can be an issue with them (make sure everything - including warning lights on start up works as it should) - but I don't think they are less reliable than most diesel cars and are probably more reliable then a lot of them.

But they are a nicer car then most other cars of that era - as a car.

VAG 1.9 tdi type stuff is generally pretty damn good from what I can see - trouble is - a lot of people think the same - so the cars are expensive.

If you could find a nice Passat with leather etc within budget - then id consider it over the 406 - but Passats with leather are rare in Ireland.

I mean for crying out loud - I knew of a 2.8 V6 Passat (1998) with cloth seats :rolleyes:. That situation improved with the later Passat - but that's out of your budget - and they aren't as reliable anyway so your not missing much tbh

Incidentally - some people will tell you the 1.9 tdi is horribly unrefined - but tbh - ive always found them to be okay in B5 or B5.5 Passats (Octavias don't seem as refined in 1.9 TDI form).

saabsaab

What about a 2004 on Saab 93 1.9 50mpg safe comfortable quick and reliable, They start from 2,500 too, Best check timing belt and Particulate filter change though.

I found the B5.5 Passat to be a ball of Sh&*E.

Completely different car to the A4, the A4 is leaps and bounds better.

The Passat is ugly inside and like a boat, and there is too much flex in the chassis !

I wasn't happy with it at all and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Great engine though.

I had suspension trouble and drive trouble with it. Just not as nice at all as the B6 A4.

I have to suggest staying away from the Alfa 147's they are poorly built. A friend of mine has had so many Alfa's.

The 159 is a lot better, still a few quality issues though.

The 147 is a thirsty sob, 25-27 mpg and that's not driving it that hard. And it burns nearly as much oil as petrol. Those twin sparks were not the best at all. Oh and they snap timing belts like mad. And the diesels are known to fling them off too. I'd say the diesels are better but I'd still avoid.

Timing belt kit required every 30K miles in the 147's.

Id say even though the VAG cars might get a trashing they are still pretty good cars even at 100k miles, but the Audi's are extremely well built and much better than the Golf/Passat.

One with a good service record with receipts and you can't go wrong, though lots of VAG owners like to do DIY service, but should still have receipts from the motor factors !

Scortho

You clearly have no idea about timing belt intervals for the petrol v6 or jtd.

Alfa still recommends 72000 miles or 5 years for the v6 and jtd.

36000 miles or every 3 years for the twin spark engines.
Personally I'd do the v6 or the jtd at 48000 or every 4 years, having heard a 5 year one about to go.

Scortho

Scortho wrote: »

You clearly have no idea about timing belt intervals for the petrol v6 or jtd.

Alfa still recommends 72000 miles or 5 years for the v6 and jtd.

36000 miles or every 3 years for the twin spark engines.
Personally I'd do the v6 or the jtd at 48000 or every 4 years, having heard a 5 year one about to go.

I didn't mention the diesels apart from they have been known to fling them off.

Yes I meant the timing belt interval for the twin spark.

166man

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to suggest staying away from the Alfa 147's they are poorly built. A friend of mine has had so many Alfa's.

The 159 is a lot better, still a few quality issues though.

The 147 is a thirsty sob, 25-27 mpg and that's not driving it that hard. And it burns nearly as much oil as petrol. Those twin sparks were not the best at all. Oh and they snap timing belts like mad. And the diesels are known to fling them off too. I'd say the diesels are better but I'd still avoid.

Timing belt kit required every 30K miles in the 147's.

Id say even though the VAG cars might get a trashing they are still pretty good cars even at 100k miles, but the Audi's are extremely well built and much better than the Golf/Passat.

One with a good service record with receipts and you can't go wrong, though lots of VAG owners like to do DIY service, but should still have receipts from the motor factors !

Unreal the amount of rubbish in this above post, potentially putting the OP off going out and driving a 147/156.

I respect your appreciation of EV's madlad and I don't wish to argue but this is silly.


What's wrong with the quality of them? Did it occur to you that maybe the reason some Alfa's fail more than normal is because they get treated like a Toyota in Ireland? i.e serviced once a year and never serviced and maintained?

What exactly can you tell me right now is wrong with the quality of the 159?

Twinspark petrols are thirsty but they're a nice engine. However we're talking diesel here so stop slating the petrols, it's irrelavent to what we're discussing here. But my 156 gets 30mpg average around town and doesn't burn much oil, and I have 20k miles up in 10 months and it's perfect.

The cars snap belts because they ain't changed on time. Very simple, change the belt when it needs to be. Diesels are 48k miles and petrols 36k miles. It would take the average driver 3 years to go through a belt. It's about a €350 job all included, it's not that much money over three years.

C'mon madlad, I'd have thought better of you than to post such tripe as you have above.

166man

166man wrote: »

Unreal the amount of rubbish in this above post, potentially putting the OP off going out and driving a 147/156.

Jaysus lad, that's a bit harsh now ! :eek:

166man wrote: »

I respect your appreciation of EV's madlad and I don't wish to argue but this is silly.

What's my interest in EV's got to do with it ?

166man wrote: »

What's wrong with the quality of them? Did it occur to you that maybe the reason some Alfa's fail more than normal is because they get treated like a Toyota in Ireland? i.e serviced once a year and never serviced and maintained?

They are utter rubbish quality, the 159 being the best I've seen yet, but bits of trim fall off. The 1.8 is decent bit low power but it's a GM engine, so it's fairly reliable.

Seriously, A friend of mine loves them and I can't understand because he's had so much trouble. The 147 was crap, suspension and timing belt failure. Rubbish !

166man wrote: »

What exactly can you tell me right now is wrong with the quality of the 159?

Trim falling off. Internal rattles and creaking suspension. But Probably the best Alfs he's had so far.

166man wrote: »

Twinspark petrols are thirsty but they're a nice engine. However we're talking diesel here so stop slating the petrols, it's irrelavent to what we're discussing here. But my 156 gets 30mpg average around town and doesn't burn much oil, and I have 20k miles up in 10 months and it's perfect.

Seems I struck a nerve ! An Alfa owner ! Do you have a 2nd car as a backup ?

166man wrote: »

The cars snap belts because they ain't changed on time. Very simple, change the belt when it needs to be. Diesels are 48k miles and petrols 36k miles. It would take the average driver 3 years to go through a belt. It's about a €350 job all included, it's not that much money over three years.

36K miles for a fecking timing belt change is mental ! Even 48 K for a diesel is mad.

166man wrote: »

C'mon madlad, I'd have thought better of you than to post such tripe as you have above.

Now Now, less of that please. Alfa lover ! :P

Scortho

Ive 135,000 miles on mine and theres little interior rattle.
An alfa owner who looks after their cars, don't need a second car.
At the same time I wouldn't recommend an alfa to a person who sees a car as a means of getting from a-b as cheap as possible. I'd hate seeing that kind of person driving an alfa to be honest as it'll look ****.

Bigus

If you could stretch your budget to save on road tax a Kia rio 1.5 crd 110 bhp will feel very quick compared to a micra and do 50 mpg, you might need to bring one in from to uk to get value though.

Mister Jingles

A question when comes to diesels, what would be considered too high mileage ? There are a lot of tdi's out there in my budget that are over 150,000 miles ? The other they I saw a 1.8 tddi Focus. 2002/3 with only 23k on the clock, bit strange I found.

saabsaab wrote: »

What about a 2004 on Saab 93 1.9 50mpg safe comfortable quick and reliable, They start from 2,500 too, Best check timing belt and Particulate filter change though.

Never thought of them, same engine that in the Vectra's ? Therefore the 8v would be the safer option reliability wise ?

Bigus wrote: »

If you could stretch your budget to save on road tax a Kia rio 1.5 crd 110 bhp will feel very quick compared to a micra and do 50 mpg, you might need to bring one in from to uk to get value though.

Which Kia Rio's are we talking about here ? The one thats an estate ? :eek:

166man

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus lad, that's a bit harsh now ! :eek:



What's my interest in EV's got to do with it ?

Maybe a bit harsh, I was only commenting on how your interest with EV's has made me have respect for you but I simply cannot sit here and watch you say this stuff about Alfa's. I look out my drive and there's 4 sitting outside. None of them perfect but what car is...;)


They are utter rubbish quality, the 159 being the best I've seen yet, but bits of trim fall off. The 1.8 is decent bit low power but it's a GM engine, so it's fairly reliable.

They are not rubbish quality, anyone who has been to my house has been in my GTV has seen the condition that it is in. The interior is mint for a car 140k miles, honestly, even Scortho above can vouch for it. Not a rattle from inside and everything works as it should. Same with my 156 an the Alfa 159 and Spider are rattle free.

That you believe the 1.8 MPI engine has power low down is even more ridiculous and borderline funny. It's a rubbish rubbish engine. Doesn't even sound nice.

Seriously, A friend of mine loves them and I can't understand because he's had so much trouble. The 147 was crap, suspension and timing belt failure. Rubbish !

What went wrong with the suspension? Belt failed cos he didn't change it on time, his own fault not the car.

Trim falling off. Internal rattles and creaking suspension. But Probably the best Alfs he's had so far.

What trim? I have been in plenty of other cars that rattle, can you realise we're talking 10 year old cars here, tell me honestly what do you expect? A bit silly if you expect a €3k 10 year old car to be perfect.

Seems I struck a nerve ! An Alfa owner ! Do you have a 2nd car as a backup ?

I do have a second car but it certainly ain't a back up. 20k miles in my 156 this year and she's going better than ever.

36K miles for a fecking timing belt change is mental ! Even 48 K for a diesel is mad.

Maybe yes if you're doing high mileage but if you're doing high miles I don't know why you'd be in a petrol Alfa....;) In the diesel you could do 25k miles a year and change it every 2 years. Not that expensive for peace of mind and a car that drives beautifully, looks even better and yet remains economical and reasonably fast?


Now Now, less of that please. Alfa lover ! :P

Now now Toyota-fanboi, please stop with the uninformed posts before this turns ugly, you won't be winning this one...;)

Scortho

I will say I've offered him 100% more for his gtv than what he paid for it and he refused.
For a car of its age, 17 years old I think, the interior is like new.
All the switches work, which any car owner will tell you, after 17 years, that's a rare thing.
I had a vw before the alfa and the interior was ****e. Rattles everywhere, the heater would only blow air at the highest setting and the electric mirrors never worked.
They didn't even give me electric windows on the car as standard. Or speakers in the rear.
I've come from a family of German and Toyota lovers.
My dad has had landcruisers for years and the only non German family car we've had was a mondeo back in 99. Personally none of them have ever been special to drive, except maybe the w164.
And it's been in the garage a lot and a good bit of its trim has fallen off.

166man

166man wrote: »

Now now Toyota-fanboi, please stop with the uninformed posts before this turns ugly, you won't be winning this one...;)

HAHA you seriously think Alfa reliability can compete with Toyota ?

Bigus

Mister Jingles wrote: »

A question when comes to diesels, what would be considered too high mileage ? There are a lot of tdi's out there in my budget that are over 150,000 miles ? The other they I saw a 1.8 tddi Focus. 2002/3 with only 23k on the clock, bit strange I found.




Never thought of them, same engine that in the Vectra's ? Therefore the 8v would be the safer option reliability wise ?



Which Kia Rio's are we talking about here ? The one thats an estate ? :eek:

No no no


This one could get a decent uk one for 2.5 sterling

Scortho

[Deleted User] wrote: »

HAHA you seriously think Alfa reliability can compete with Toyota ?

I don't think he's that daft.
However they're no where near as unreliable as they are made out to be.

To drive, they'd beat all toyotas sold here, except maybe jdm grey market stuff.
To sit in, your not going to find a better car to be in. There's a brand new landcruiser on my driveway and there's an 11 year old alfa. The 11 year old alfa has a higher spec and is no where near as bland.

Ded_Zebra

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA you seriously think Alfa reliability can compete with Toyota ?

Tell us about the interior in your Prius so. Are you telling me it doesn't rattle? No bits have fallen off? and everything fits together as it should?

Yes in terms of drive line etc I do like the Prius and I'm a bit of a Toyota fan but you must admit the the interior is very poorly made. In my experience the fit and finish of Alfas interiors is leaps and bounds ahead of Toyotas.

166man

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA you seriously think Alfa reliability can compete with Toyota ?

Nope but maintain one and I see no reason why it shouldn't start stop everytime the way a Toyota would.

Scortho wrote: »

I don't think he's that daft.
However they're no where near as unreliable as they are made out to be.

To drive, they'd beat all toyotas sold here, except maybe jdm grey market stuff.
To sit in, your not going to find a better car to be in. There's a brand new landcruiser on my driveway and there's an 11 year old alfa. The 11 year old alfa has a higher spec and is no where near as bland.

+1

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

Tell us about the interior in your Prius so. Are you telling me it doesn't rattle? No bits have fallen off? and everything fits together as it should?

Yes in terms of drive line etc I do like the Prius and I'm a bit of a Toyota fan but you must admit the the interior is very poorly made. In my experience the fit and finish of Alfas interiors is leaps and bounds ahead of Toyotas.

Yeah to call Toyota's interior quality is quite funny alright!

Certainly in it's 102,000 miles no trim has fallen off my prius.

Yes everything fits as it should. It may not be as nice to sit in as a VW or Audi, but it's sure has been reliable. More than any VAG car I've had.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

I know you said you wanted to avoid French, but I just bought a 96 peugeot 406 and I have to say its the bees knees. Interior is as solid as it gets, not a rattle out of it and not very hard to find executive models with leather seats, cruise control the whole shebang.

Mine does have a few electrical issues that need sorting but for the price I paid (750) it's worth it.

You'd get a decent quality hdi for 1.5k

Bigus

I collected a 2007 rio1.5 from the docks and was very impressed by the poke, for a 1.5,

Afterall the original golf GTI was only 110 bhp too and not a whole lot lighter, not my video below but I came across it after driving one, but this one might be chipped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=458ip5eH1Q0

Mister Jingles

Mister Jingles wrote: »

A question when comes to diesels, what would be considered too high mileage ? There are a lot of tdi's out there in my budget that are over 150,000 miles ? The other they I saw a 1.8 tddi Focus. 2002/3 with only 23k on the clock, bit strange I found.

Just wanted to echo this question since it hasn't been answered yet.

Regarding the Kia, wouldn't be something that i'd be into tbh, not for the moment anyway.

166man

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Just wanted to echo this question since it hasn't been answered yet.

Regarding the Kia, wouldn't be something that i'd be into tbh, not for the moment anyway.

High miles would and wouldn't concern me if you get me but it really is all about how the car drives. Buy one that's been looked after and you'd be laughing. If you can't tell whether it's been minded or not, bring someone who can. It's worth it in the long run.

I helped Scortho on here buy his 156 V6 a few months back, bought one with 135k miles and contrary to above opinions the car doesn't have a rattle or a squeak. It's a stight as a drum and feels like it has 60k miles it's that good.

Very low mileage would concern me too so there's too parts to the spectrum. Hope this helps!

Toyotafanboi

arguing a 156 versus a prius is more than a little bit chalk and cheese. extremely different natured cars, not that it needs pointing out :P i don't think i've ever been inside a remarkably nice toyota, but i have a James May-esque appreciation for its logical boringness. that said, the leather in the 156 nomnomnom :pac:

Spipov

Can we go back on topic please? Why does it always descend in chaos when alfa vs toyota starts???

dgt

Spipov wrote: »

Can we go back on topic please? Why does it always descend in chaos when alfa vs toyota starts???

Die hards vs enthusiasts. It's never going to be resolved, especially with one insulting the other, firing out bullsh*t facts etc, my ball of scrap made with nasty cling film plastics and laptop batteries is better than your overcomplicated suspension wagon..... :pac:

Since I'll try go back ot, consider a 406HDi..... Go on, they're not at bad as people make out

Toyotafanboi

i hope i'm not the die hard in all this :O

dgt

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i hope i'm not the die hard in all this :O

Oh goodness no! A neutral contributor

snaps

Reading this thread has made me chuckle. Was starting to side with mad lad, then it comes to light he drives a prius.........A real drivers car!!!!

Regarding Alfas/Fiats, Nout wrong with them. Ive had plenty of them in my past, 3 Alfas and 3 Fiats. Looked after them, serviced them and they have returned the favour to me. I had a diesel 147 once when my 156 was in for its timing belt change. I actually thought it was a cracking little car.

But back to reality and to the post, Ive since had French cars (Family size) and there is nothing wrong with them either. Currently have a Citroen 1.6hdi. Top of the range, leather and very economical too. Its all down to what you can afford and want. Yes there is some rotten apples out there, but thats the gamble you take.

snaps

snaps wrote: »

Reading this thread has made me chuckle. Was starting to side with mad lad, then it comes to light he drives a prius.........A real drivers car!!!!

You're having a chuckle because I recommended the A4 1.9 TDI 130, and all because I drive a Prius, a very sensible reliable and economical car ?

I'l chuckling now !

snaps

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're having a chuckle because I recommended the A4 1.9 TDI 130, and all because I drive a Prius, a very sensible reliable and economical car ?

I'l chuckling now !

no, because the way you were so anti Alfa Romeo.

galwaytt

Mister Jingles wrote: »

It's not a main priority but something that won't drink the juice on the motorways would be nice, my current 1.0 Micra breaks my heart once it's driving at 100km/h or more, I've never worked it out but I wouldn't be surprised if it's mpg is only in the low 30's or high 20's at those speeds.

Tbh my 225bhp 1.8t Audi TT uses less juice than that, averaging around 32mpg - if the Micra is your arbiter here, a TT is an infinitely nicer place to be.

You could always go old school VW diesel, the old Jetta - knocking on the door of classic tax in a year or 3 and a no-brains car that runs on fumes.

On the modern front, I had a new Golf Plus 105bhp in 2006 and that was very economical.

Mister Jingles

galwaytt wrote: »

Tbh my 225bhp 1.8t Audi TT uses less juice than that, averaging around 32mpg - if the Micra is your arbiter here, a TT is an infinitely nicer place to be.

I'd well believe it alright, if you keep it at 80km/h which is 2000 rpm in 5th its fine after that it's all downhill

A Golf Plus would be a 100% no no for me