The Big Bow Wow

BuilderPlumber

Anyone remember this series? Everyone thought it was terrible at the time but was this a stepping stone to superior dramas like Love/Hate or was The Big Bow Wow really the rubbish everyone thought it was?

It would be interesting to locate this on DVD or something to see what it is really like. Some of the storylines I can remember:

A female student and a male lecturer have a relationship and he giving her preferential treatment and exam results.
A gay relationship between a cop and a drug dealer. One or both was killed in a shootout.
The availability of a designer drug called pony. And all the main characters getting drunk and stoned in the club called The Big Bow Wow.
Some incidents had a vague link to al Qaeda and terrorism.
Jealousy between the characters over certain issues in particular over the student who had the relationship with the lecturer.

Overall, I thought it was uneven and poor enough at the time. But could the ideas have been produced better and could it have ironed things out in a second series? Well, since other poor RTE shows ranging from the depressing The Frontline to the overrated Mrs Browns Boys that are arguably no better have done well by comparison, did the poor old Bow Wow get a raw deal?

Also, I remember another one called Trouble in Paradise from a few years later. That was sort of a Glenroe with an edge attempt but can't really recall much about it.

Almaviva

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Glenroe with an edge

My mind is currently boggling.

AnonoBoy

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Anyone remember this series? Everyone thought it was terrible at the time but was this a stepping stone to superior dramas like Love/Hate or was The Big Bow Wow really the rubbish everyone thought it was?

It really was the rubbish everyone thought it was. It thought it was hip and edgy but Eoghan Harris was one of the writers for f*ck's sake - how edgy and hip could anything be with him attached?

Well, since other poor RTE shows ranging from the depressing The Frontline to the overrated Mrs Browns Boys that are arguably no better have done well by comparison, did the poor old Bow Wow get a raw deal?

The Frontline? How the hell are you comparing a current affairs programme to The Big Bow Wow?

Do you mean Prosperity?

Greyjoy

I remember it getting (rightly) slagged off by Colin Murphy on Blizzard of Odd back in the day. It absolutely reeked of middle-aged writers in RTE thinking they knew what the 'yoof' were up to.

The shootout scene is the only one that has stuck in my mind, probably because Murphy showed it on BoO. It takes place in a record store and it really showed the middle age mindset of the writers because the criminal twigs that it's an undercover sting when a customer looking for a Miles Davis album is pointed to the Blues section of the store instead of Jazz.The criminal thinks for a moment and yells out something like "Miles Davis wouldn't be in the Blues section - HE SHOULD BE IN JAZZ!" He then whips a pistol and begins shooting.

BuilderPlumber

AnonoBoy wrote: »

It really was the rubbish everyone thought it was. It thought it was hip and edgy but Eoghan Harris was one of the writers for f*ck's sake - how edgy and hip could anything be with him attached?



The Frontline? How the hell are you comparing a current affairs programme to The Big Bow Wow?

Do you mean Prosperity?

I know there was an Eoghan Harris listed as writer: just curious: was that really that ex politician who loved Bertie?

There is nothing in common between The Frontline, The Big Bow Wow and Mrs Browns Boys apart from one major thing they do have in common: the fact that they are very poor excuses of programmes.

BuilderPlumber

Greyjoy wrote: »

I remember it getting (rightly) slagged off by Colin Murphy on Blizzard of Odd back in the day. It absolutely reeked of middle-aged writers in RTE thinking they knew what the 'yoof' were up to.

The shootout scene is the only one that has stuck in my mind, probably because Murphy showed it on BoO. It takes place in a record store and it really showed the middle age mindset of the writers because the criminal twigs that it's an undercover sting when a customer looking for a Miles Davis album is pointed to the Blues section of the store instead of Jazz.The criminal thinks for a moment and yells out something like "Miles Davis wouldn't be in the Blues section - HE SHOULD BE IN JAZZ!" He then whips a pistol and begins shooting.

I remember that scene now. I think it had no sense of identity and tried to be too much. The last couple of episodes were better than the very poor episodes before that that seemed to drag on and on if I recall.

It rightly did not deserve a second season but as said previously, worse series ranging the entire spectrum from comedy to so-called current affairs survived longer. I am unsure how long similar series to Bow Wow like Batchelor's Walk and Pure Mule lasted (series just as bad imo).

evilivor

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I know there was an Eoghan Harris listed as writer: just curious: was that really that ex politician who loved Bertie?

The one and only - he's a journo who Bertie made a Senator for coming out to bat for him on the Late Late Show

BuilderPlumber

evilivor wrote: »

The one and only - he's a journo who Bertie made a Senator for coming out to bat for him on the Late Late Show

I always thought Eoghan Harris was the kind of guy who would side with anyone and throw away his principles when it suited him. Anyone who starts off as a Marxist and ends up as a supporter of Bertie and George W Bush says it all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eoghan_Harris

Supporting Bertie did allow him become a Senator but he was PR for Fine Gael and for Mary Robinson before that. He supported the abhorrent Iraq war, but for one reason only: he was friendly with Chalabi, who was then touted as the post-Saddam Iraqi leader and who probably had a role for Harris!

I do not like his journalism style as it is full of propaganda for his own current agendas that seem to change with the wind. At the very least, he kept his political propaganda out of the Big Bow Wow if I recall correctly?

jmcc

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Anyone remember this series?

There are some people still trying to forget it.

Eoghan Harris had a writing credit on it - 'nuff said!

Regards...jmcc

evilivor

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I always thought Eoghan Harris was the kind of guy who would side with anyone and throw away his principles when it suited him. Anyone who starts off as a Marxist and ends up as a supporter of Bertie and George W Bush says it all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eoghan_Harris

Supporting Bertie did allow him become a Senator but he was PR for Fine Gael and for Mary Robinson before that. He supported the abhorrent Iraq war, but for one reason only: he was friendly with Chalabi, who was then touted as the post-Saddam Iraqi leader and who probably had a role for Harris!

I do not like his journalism style as it is full of propaganda for his own current agendas that seem to change with the wind. At the very least, he kept his political propaganda out of the Big Bow Wow if I recall correctly?

He was a Unionist briefly too.

BuilderPlumber

evilivor wrote: »

He was a Unionist briefly too.

You name it, he was it for a time! The political equivalent of a mercenary!

Greyjoy

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It rightly did not deserve a second season but as said previously, worse series ranging the entire spectrum from comedy to so-called current affairs survived longer.

I'm not a fan of either Frontline or Mrs Brown's Boys but I think the difference is that they at least gave their audiences what they wanted - current affairs for Frontline and slapstick & innuendo for MBB. The Big Bow Wow wanted to be a hip & trendy drama about 'modern' Ireland but fell so far short thanks to cringe worthy acting & writing.

BuilderPlumber

Greyjoy wrote: »

I'm not a fan of either Frontline or Mrs Brown's Boys but I think the difference is that they at least gave their audiences what they wanted - current affairs for Frontline and slapstick & innuendo for MBB. The Big Bow Wow wanted to be a hip & trendy drama about 'modern' Ireland but fell so far short thanks to cringe worthy acting & writing.

True. Mrs Brown's Boys succeeds to satisfy the huge 'if it's crude it is funny' audience and succeeds well in giving that audience exactly what it wants: a lot of dirty language, sexual jokes and the like (the storylines and content are secondary to that).

The Frontline knew its audience too. But it got bogged down in the one topic and Pat Kenny often lost control of the debates.

The Big Bow Wow indeed did not know what it was! It started off like Sex in the City, then I got the feeling it was trying to copy Roddy Doyle's works like The Commitments and finally it was trying to put a bit of Miami Vice into the mix. It succeeded in being serious as none of the above.

Storylines like the drugs were done far better in Miami Vice and would not prove successful as the main theme in an Irish drama until Love/Hate. The other stories like the lecturer and student relationship were done better in Fair City (in fact, that storyline was robbed from that actually). The allusion to terrorism, etc. were just a nod to the times it was made in (post 9/11, early Iraq war era) and the gay relationship was meant to add a twist in the cop/drug dealer relationship. All these stories were interesting and were done excellently elsewhere but NOT in the Big Bow Wow!

jmcc

Greyjoy wrote: »

The Big Bow Wow wanted to be a hip & trendy drama about 'modern' Ireland but fell so far short thanks to cringe worthy acting & writing.

It was like some kind of bizzaro world. Not the good bizzaro world that produces great art and comic books but the bizzaro world of past-it Sindo hacks high on the smell of their own farts and delusional about their own importance splattering the diarrhoea of their tiny minds into a TV script. It sucked big time!

Regards...jmcc

BuilderPlumber

jmcc wrote: »

It was like some kind of bizzaro world. Not the good bizzaro world that produces great art and comic books but the bizzaro world of past-it Sindo hacks high on the smell of their own farts and delusional about their own importance splattering the diarrhoea of their tiny minds into a TV script. It sucked big time!

Regards...jmcc

It also implied it was not set in the then present but rather in the very near future even though this was not mentioned.

Admittedly, some of the stories and ideas could have had potential but were poorly written and acted. 13 episodes (some rolled into 2 part ones) probably written and made in a rushed timespan a few weeks before production. The first half and last half were different and the characters' personalities were never explored to show the changes that came over many of them in a short timespan.

A good show like Love/Hate have complex and well developed but consistent characters. Like Nidge is Nidge all the way through and you know this: he is complex, ruthless, cunning and sometimes even kind all in one and we see the reasons for him being like this.

A poor show such as The Big Bow Wow on the other hand saw characters who changed and had no personality even: I cannot remember a name of any of them and can only remember the lecturer and student and gay drug dealer and cop in any detail.

BuilderPlumber

Professor Mike Cullen was the lecturer, Jamelia the student. Detective Liam McDonagh was the cop obviously. The names are listed here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401913/

The other characters do not ring a bell at all!

AnonoBoy

Didn't RTE start showing double episodes of it after a few weeks to get it off the air quickly?

BuilderPlumber

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Didn't RTE start showing double episodes of it after a few weeks to get it off the air quickly?

Yes! That was the case. The first few were 30 minutes and the last ones were 1 hour in length. It was supposed to be 13 episodes at 30 minutes.

BuilderPlumber

Just found out you can actually get The Big Bow Wow on DVD. I think I could get this and relive this classic:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Big-Bow-Wow-Complete-Series/dp/B0012BLTMY

stoneill

Never heard of it.

BuilderPlumber

stoneill wrote: »

Never heard of it.

Many would consider you to be lucky!!

darkdubh

Strange the things that pop into your head randomly,like this atrocity of an RTE production from 12 years ago.I was curious to see was it really as bad as I remember and this thread is the first thing to come up.Seems I'm not alone in my opinion.To the noughties what Leave It to Mrs O Brien was the the 80s.I diden't know Eoghan Harris was involved,now that explains a lot.The man has no sense of humour or self awareness whatsoever.

darkdubh

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Anyone remember this series? Everyone thought it was terrible at the time but was this a stepping stone to superior dramas like Love/Hate or was The Big Bow Wow really the rubbish everyone thought it was?

It would be interesting to locate this on DVD or something to see what it is really like. Some of the storylines I can remember:

A female student and a male lecturer have a relationship and he giving her preferential treatment and exam results.
A gay relationship between a cop and a drug dealer. One or both was killed in a shootout.
The availability of a designer drug called pony. And all the main characters getting drunk and stoned in the club called The Big Bow Wow.
Some incidents had a vague link to al Qaeda and terrorism.
Jealousy between the characters over certain issues in particular over the student who had the relationship with the lecturer.

Overall, I thought it was uneven and poor enough at the time. But could the ideas have been produced better and could it have ironed things out in a second series? Well, since other poor RTE shows ranging from the depressing The Frontline to the overrated Mrs Browns Boys that are arguably no better have done well by comparison, did the poor old Bow Wow get a raw deal?

Also, I remember another one called Trouble in Paradise from a few years later. That was sort of a Glenroe with an edge attempt but can't really recall much about it.

Jesus I remember that.Fiona O Shaughnessy of the irritating voice who narrates those AIB "Brave" ads was in it playing a hippy.I think one entire episode had her and one of those wans from the Commitments tied to a tree,no idea what the whole thing was about.

Ralf and Florian

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I remember that scene now. I think it had no sense of identity and tried to be too much. The last couple of episodes were better than the very poor episodes before that that seemed to drag on and on if I recall.

It rightly did not deserve a second season but as said previously, worse series ranging the entire spectrum from comedy to so-called current affairs survived longer. I am unsure how long similar series to Bow Wow like Batchelor's Walk and Pure Mule lasted (series just as bad imo).

Are you seriously comparing Pure Mule and Batchelors Walk to TBBW?Pure Mule was a very decent series with strong writing and acting.Batchelors Walk was pretty good though it got kind of silly in the last series with that drawn out storyline where they thought this lad had killed his wife,still a decent comedy drama at least by RTE standards.The Big Bow Wow however was unadulterated ****@ that should never have seen the light of day and must cause nightmares to this day for anyone unfortunate enough to have their names linked to it. .

darkdubh

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Are you seriously comparing Pure Mule and Batchelors Walk to TBBW?Pure Mule was a very decent series with strong writing and acting.Batchelors Walk was pretty good though it got kind of silly in the last series with that drawn out storyline where they thought this lad had killed his wife,still a decent comedy drama at least by RTE standards.The Big Bow Wow however was unadulterated ****@ that should never have seen the light of day and must cause nightmares to this day for anyone unfortunate enough to have their names linked to it. .

Except for Harris.He probably still thinks its a masterpiece,the man has no self awareness or dignity as this clip shows to hilarious effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLTdP44fGtE

BuilderPlumber

The Big Bow Wow still remains infamous some 12 years after it first broadcast. Indeed it would have been on this exact time 12 years ago. Those annoying AIB 'brave' ads indeed have the same person who played one of the Bow Wows in it and that says it all really. With regard to Pure Mule, it would have been the latter episodes I would have been familiar with.

Big Bow Wow was typical of what came from the likes of Harris, who has no self awareness and still probably regards this series as a masterpiece. Harris is typical of those Independent Newspapers/RTE individuals who go on massive ego trips and have a perception of their own self importance that Ireland's inbred media are only too happy to promote.

Harris' views on topics have been all over the place to say the least and his agendas were seen to be ranging from communist to Unionist to ultra capitalist among others. He defended Bertie's corruption, the Iraq war and other such disasters all because he was being paid or given privileges by people he knew inclusive of Bertie and one time preferred Saddam successor Ahmed Chalabi.

With such a man in the driving seat behind The Big Bow Wow, no wonder it was a disaster. The original concept of the series was interesting. Set in the near future in a non-apocalyptic/non-dystopian Ireland that is still booming and where drugs and using others to get what one wants are the norm. It was an attempt to predict the 2008-2016 period if things had worked out different and there was no recession. Mad Max it most certainly was not. The gay relationship between a drug dealer and an undercover cop was daring. BUT the script was a total mess, inconsistent and the characters were wooden. Influences were taken from Fair City (the student/teacher affair), Miami Vice, The Commitments, Sex In The City and other sources but its main problem was it did not know which one of these it was. It was almost like a 'Barry Egan does the Irish college drug scene with descriptions from Harris'. A decent gangland drama was something Irish TV fans wanted at the time and was long overdue but this was not going to be it and fans had to wait until 2010.

The Big Bow Wow remains one of the worst TV programmes I have ever seen in any genre. It is to drama what Pat Kenny's The Frontline was to chatshows or what Upwardly Mobile was to comedy. Back in 2004 I remember Bow Wow being as brutal as the worst reality TV shows of that time. Says it all.

AnonoBoy

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Those annoying AIB 'brave' ads indeed have the same person who played one of the Bow Wows in it and that says it all really.

She was in Trouble in Paradise, not in the Big Bow Wow though.

Ralf and Florian

darkdubh wrote: »

Except for Harris.He probably still thinks its a masterpiece,the man has no self awareness or dignity as this clip shows to hilarious effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLTdP44fGtE

That interview is ten times funnier than anything Mario Rosenstock or Dave Macsavage could ever dreamed up.I take my hat off to the person who recorded it and uploaded it to Youtube.

BuilderPlumber

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

That interview is ten times funnier than anything Mario Rosenstock or Dave Macsavage could ever dreamed up.I take my hat off to the person who recorded it and uploaded it to Youtube.

This man Harris is best remembered for his fanatic love of Bertie back in 2007 or so. Being appointed senator had a lot to do with it. Now, when RTE decide to do a drama called 'Bertie' about you guessed it Bertie, Harris is the man to write it!

But before he does that, he has to bring The Big Bow Wow to the big screen! You could imagine the description on the promos for it and then DVD cover:

'It's 2020. War, terrorism, famine and anarchy has killed the world. Two mighty warrior tribes lead by Da Donald and Da Vlad have seen most world nations collapse. Only two countries remain intact and normal by staying out of the chaos and rising from the chaos: Ireland and the oil rich Federal Republic of Iran-Iraq. Everyone who had money came here to invest it here if they could. The latter provides the oil to fuel the former's hedonistic lifestyles.

With Ireland's newfound superpower status, a gay gangland biker drug dealer Nodge Blaney provides the recreational pharmaceuticals while his boyfriend unknown to him is a cop called Crazy Ciaran who unknown to him that his target is his criminal boyfriend. Meanwhile, a postgrad student is dating her teacher for preferential treatment . As the net closes in, the cop finds out about his boyfriend but other criminals lead by infamous biker the Fingerchopper get to him first and leave him dying in the back of a van with a snooker cue shoved you know where. He then hunts down the biker gang and hops onto a speedboat and heads for 'the wasteland' over in France.

Released as The Big Bow Wow in Ireland, it has also become known as Crazy Ciaran and its sequel The Boat Warrior is being made!

Hangdogroad

I saw this pop up on YouTube recently. I remember the controversy about this sketch but didnt know Eoghan Harris had written it, that got me thinking again about the Big Bow Wow and his involvement, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWl8JQYS2M