Chipper quality - 2 questions

Chelon

The average Irish chipper isn't great, is it? So many of them, yet they all seem to make the same basic faux pas. Could anyone explain in particular why the following two practices should be so common:-

1. Re-frying previously fried, frozen fish, instead of cooking from fresh?

2. When you order a bag of chips, it invariably comes in a tall narrow brown bag. I don't have a problem with this, but then it is topped off with a hearty shake of salt and vinegar, showering the top half dozen chips but leaving the rest unadorned.

I can accept that there may be reasons for point 1, but as for point 2, I can't think of any apart from complete disregard for what they are expecting you to put in your mouth once outside the shop.

Anyone know?

brick tamland

Chelon wrote: »

The average Irish chipper isn't great, is it? So many of them, yet they all seem to make the same basic faux pas. Could anyone explain in particular why the following two practices should be so common:-

1. Re-frying previously fried, frozen fish, instead of cooking from fresh?

2. When you order a bag of chips, it invariably comes in a tall narrow brown bag. I don't have a problem with this, but then it is topped off with a hearty shake of salt and vinegar, showering the top half dozen chips but leaving the rest unadorned.

I can accept that there may be reasons for point 1, but as for point 2, I can't think of any apart from complete disregard for what they are expecting you to put in your mouth once outside the shop.

Anyone know?

When i was younger and ate lots of chipper grub No 2 used to really wreck my head, to the extent where I used to get food in a box (snack/fish) only and still ask ask for loads of vinegar. I agree though. Lots of bad chippers around, always good if you live near a good one.

My pet hate is being charged stupid price for cod and that's the only fish option (maybe ray). Put some cheaper sustainable fish on the menu lads

The Hill Billy

For 1 - it is an efficient manner of food prep, particularly for busy periods when people may not be prepared to suffer longer waiting times & possibly higher prices for freshly battered & fried fish.

As for 2 - what do you suggest? Even at home we only season the top surface of our food. I shake the bag. Do you have any better suggestions yourself.

Also, where I live the average chipper is pretty damn good.

jpb1974

The Hill Billy wrote: »

As for 2 - what do you suggest? Even at home we only season the top surface of our food. I shake the bag. Do you have any better suggestions yourself.

Portion of chips -> Large stainless steel bowl -> Salt & Vinegar with Toss -> Plate/Bag

That's what I do at home.

Dizzyblonde

I actually think chippers have improved greatly in the past few years. A lot of them seem to cook the food as it's ordered, although I know they'll have the fish etc prepared in advance or you'd be waiting ages. It's been years since I got a bag of nasty 'reheats'.
The bag is a bit of a problem - there was a chipper in town (Dublin) years ago called Di Mascio's and they wrapped the chips in brown paper with a square of greaseproof inside. So they were laid out and evenly dosed with salt & vinegar before being wrapped up. They were the nicest chips I ever had.

Swiper the fox

Couldn't you ask for the salt and vinegar yourself and give the bag a shake?

There are some fantastic fish and chip shops around the country now, The Fish Wife in Cork and Kettle of Fish in Gort and Galway are two I've discovered quite recently that batter and fry fresh fish as it's ordered. Both are comparable with the fish and chips I've had in Rick Steins place in Padstow(Cornwall).

Chelon

The Hill Billy wrote: »

For 1 - it is an efficient manner of food prep, particularly for busy periods when people may not be prepared to suffer longer waiting times & possibly higher prices for freshly battered & fried fish.

As for 2 - what do you suggest? Even at home we only season the top surface of our food. I shake the bag. Do you have any better suggestions yourself.

Also, where I live the average chipper is pretty damn good.

1. It may be efficient, but what about the quality of the product? The few quality Irish chippers and all of the ones in Scotland seem to manage to cook fresh fish, and stay in business for years. Customers will wait for a few minutes if they are getting a far superior meal.

2. I've tried shaking the bag - it doesn't work. It would work if the bag was 2-3 times bigger though. Why not use a box, or preferably as noted above a sheet of greaseproof paper on top of a sheet of brown or newspaper.

Also let the customer salt and vinegar his own chips. It's not rocket science, but seems way beyond the knowledge or interest of the average chippers here.

By the way are you in the trade, HillBilly?

DebDynamite

Chelon wrote: »

1. It may be efficient, but what about the quality of the product? The few quality Irish chippers and all of the ones in Scotland seem to manage to cook fresh fish, and stay in business for years. Customers will wait for a few minutes if they are getting a far superior meal.

2. I've tried shaking the bag - it doesn't work. It would work if the bag was 2-3 times bigger though. Why not use a box, or preferably as noted above a sheet of greaseproof paper on top of a sheet of brown or newspaper.

Also let the customer salt and vinegar his own chips. It's not rocket science, but seems way beyond the knowledge or interest of the average chippers here.

By the way are you in the trade, HillBilly?

Have to agree with you Chelon. My OH, who is English refuses to go to an Irish chipper for Fish & Chips as he doesn’t like the way the fish is just re-fried, rather than battered and fried from fresh. He doesn’t really get why Burdocks have such a good name.

Actually, does anyone of a good chipper in Dublin, who do fry the fish from fresh?

Chelon

DebDynamite wrote: »

Have to agree with you Chelon. My OH, who is English refuses to go to an Irish chipper for Fish & Chips as he doesn’t like the way the fish is just re-fried, rather than battered and fried from fresh. He doesn’t really get why Burdocks have such a good name.

Actually, does anyone of a good chipper in Dublin, who do fry the fish from fresh?

Burdocks in town is fine. The one in Dundrum uses frozen(I believe it's a franchise)- not sure about any other Burdocks.

For quality in Dublin, only one place - Beshoff's.

Would love for someone to tell me if there's any more...

Chelon

Swiper the fox wrote: »

There are some fantastic fish and chip shops around the country now, The Fish Wife in Cork and Kettle of Fish in Gort and Galway are two I've discovered quite recently that batter and fry fresh fish as it's ordered. Both are comparable with the fish and chips I've had in Rick Steins place in Padstow(Cornwall).

Yes these are fantastic places, but (please correct me if I'm wrong), they amount to no more than a handful for the whole country. I'm talking about the average neighbourhood place and their lack of interest in what they are serving. Even asking for your own salt and vinegar will provoke a stern reaction most times I've tried it.

Swiper the fox

Chelon wrote: »

Yes these are fantastic places, but (please correct me if I'm wrong), they amount to no more than a handful for the whole country. I'm talking about the average neighbourhood place and their lack of interest in what they are serving. Even asking for your own salt and vinegar will provoke a stern reaction most times I've tried it.

Most people(particularly regular customers) aren't as discerning as you or me probably, I'm with you mostly, I never order fish from a chipper if I see the par cooked ones sitting waiting to go in the oil, the places I mentioned previously do it the right way(like in England mostly, lot's of bad chippys there also though).

Only I've never had anyone give me a reaction when I ask to put on my own salt and vinegar, if I did i'd be disgusted alright, what's the point?

Chelon

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Most people(particularly regular customers) aren't as discerning as you or me probably, I'm with you mostly, I never order fish from a chipper if I see the par cooked ones sitting waiting to go in the oil, the places I mentioned previously do it the right way(like in England mostly, lot's of bad chippys there also though).

Only I've never had anyone give me a reaction when I ask to put on my own salt and vinegar, if I did i'd be disgusted alright, what's the point?

Indeed there are plenty of below par ones in the UK, I'd guess around 30-40%, but the remainder are generally very good or outstanding. Compare to Ireland - personally I've only been in 5 which cooked fresh fish.

Salt and vinegar - I wouldn't like to ask for it at the head of a busy queue on a Friday night, and as for asking the guy to rip open the bag and season the remaining 90% of chips (I've tried) , best of luck

The Hill Billy

No. I work in IT.

Tbh, I know what you are saying OP, but unless the Irish public are prepared to wait & pay for freshly battered & fried fish, & accept the additional cost of chips in boxes instead of bags - you are gonna get what is currently on offer.

The earlier mentioned stainless steel bowl toss method of evenly distributing salt & vinegar over the chips is good, but really only efficient with crisp thin fries & not the chunkier & not-so-crispy standard Irish chip. Just IMHO, of course.

MadsL

UK version of 2. is very small paper bag of chips - scoop into bag then onto newspaper (well wax paper now) then 2nd scoop of chips. Season, then wrap.

Eat by tearing a hole through the bag.


Also, that ain't Cod.

rubadub

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

It's been years since I got a bag of nasty 'reheats'.

I used to actually like some of them!

Most Italian chippers here will do the twice cook method for chips, which some wrongly think is reheats since they see chips being put in which look cooked (not suggesting you were).

The fish thing saves time, but if I ran a chipper I would offer both. I would not have a big selection of fish to allow this happen easier, or maybe just one on offer to be freshly done. If its a true fresh fish which has never been frozen I would charge accordingly.

Chelon wrote: »

2. I've tried shaking the bag - it doesn't work. It would work if the bag was 2-3 times bigger though. Why not use a box, or preferably as noted above a sheet of greaseproof paper on top of a sheet of brown or newspaper.

I sometimes get the small white bag inside and just dump them into the larger brown one. You can keep the white bag on the outside if the paper begins to get weak. This way your overseasoned top chips mix with the bottom ones.

Burdocks would wrap them in white paper in christchurch and had a table there where you unwrapped and put salt & vinegar on yourself. Not sure if its still the case. I never got why more chippers did not have salt & vinegar on the counter if people wanted more, its not like its expensive stuff.

Most here use a small white bag and then an extra scoop of chips, this someway attempts to give more even coating, I know only 1 italian chipper that does a tall white bag with no additional scoop. I often have a sneaky mcdonalds salt sachet in my wallet

MadsL wrote: »

Also, that ain't Cod.

They did DNA studies a few years ago in chippers here, the vast majority of "fresh cod" was indeed cod, most of the "smoked cod" was not. In my local he does "fresh fillet cod" and "smoked fish" and "square fish" (instead of cod portion)

jpb1974

Most chippers around here have -

"Square Cod".. which is rectangular and the "Sea Fresh Cod" which is the frozen stuff that doesn't come in a uniform shape.

"Sea Fresh Cod"... you'd have to laugh... definitely not sea fresh, and may or not be cod

MadsL

I miss chippers

Mr Simpson

Beshoffs do their chips in a box rather than a bag. They do prefry the fish, but they don't freeze it. My favourite chipper

tayto lover

jpb1974 wrote: »

Most chippers around here have -

"Square Cod".. which is rectangular and the "Sea Fresh Cod" which is the frozen stuff that doesn't come in a uniform shape.

"Sea Fresh Cod"... you'd have to laugh... definitely not sea fresh, and may or not be cod

and ..... a lot more batter than fish.

jpb1974

Nothing worse than when the fish is a pale grey colour... then you know you're in trouble.

Personally I'm quite lucky.. I live 15 miles from Wexford town where I can get the finest of fresh fish at outstandingly good prices in Meyler's Fishmongers e.g. €8 a kg for the freshest of Cod, €6 a kg for Haddock.

So I usually make my own.

vicwatson

jpb1974 wrote: »

Most chippers around here have -

"Square Cod".. which is rectangular and the "Sea Fresh Cod" which is the frozen stuff that doesn't come in a uniform shape.

"Sea Fresh Cod"... you'd have to laugh... definitely not sea fresh, and may or not be cod

Even "fresh" cod (or other) as described by all chippers has to be incorrect, no way it's "fresh"?

My kingdom for fresh fish, dipped in batter and fried in front of my eyes, like they used to do in the 70's and early 80's before they started buying in these cheap pre battered pre frozen "fresh" fish in from some factory !

It's not hard to make your own batter and buy fresh fish and cook it fresh, NOT HARD AT ALL, and it's delicious. Hake, Cod, Haddock - all brilliant made at home - FRESH

MadsL

vicwatson wrote: »

buy fresh fish and cook it fresh, NOT HARD AT ALL.

Possibly avoiding Cod as it is massively overfished and on the red list.

vicwatson

MadsL wrote: »

Possibly avoiding Cod as it is massively overfished and on the red list.

Bought from MSC approved suppliers you'll be ok

vicwatson

MadsL wrote: »

I miss chippers

Sorry this is all I can offer you !

MadsL

Greenpeace remain unconvinced

MadsL

vicwatson wrote: »

Sorry this is all I can offer you !

Aggh!

Salivate...


Missus will not allow me to buy a deep fryer - pesky cholesterol :mad:

brick tamland

vicwatson wrote: »

E70's and early 80's before they started buying in these cheap pre battered pre frozen "fresh" fish in from some factory !

This doesn't happen does it? I'm sure no chipper I use does it. Unless its whats mentioned above as squared cod or what I always called a cod portion.

wmpdd3

The fish shop here batters it for you up till about 7 when the queue is out the door then its done in batches and refried. Its all swimming in salt and vinegar and wrapped in white paper.

Funny thing is the place does the worse burgers, reheated in a microwave and stuck in a bun.

you often see couples going in for fish and then across the green to the other shop for burgers.

rubadub

brick tamland wrote: »

This doesn't happen does it? I'm sure no chipper I use does it.

I have never seen it. I have seen them doing cod portions, with their own batter. I have never seen prebattered cod portions being used.

In other threads I have seen people complaining about "chippers" using frozen chips and donegal catch type fish -IMO these, by definition, are simply not chippers.

Chelon

I was hoping that someone in the trade would be able to comment, or explain why things are done this way in most Irish chippers. I know they are mostly Italian here, as they are in Scotland, yet over there the fish is cooked fresh. You'd also get the option of batter or breadcrumbs, which can be fantastic.

Also I have seen in one extremely famous Dublin shop, the pre-fried fish being brought into the shop on trays from a van outside...shocking really.

rubadub

Chelon wrote: »

Also I have seen in one extremely famous Dublin shop, the pre-fried fish being brought into the shop on trays from a van outside...shocking really.

Which was it? its not like your disclosing something they are ashamed of, if they are openly bringing it in.

I am interested to know if it is what I would have considered a chipper. I never really thought of beshoffs as a chipper for some reason.

Chelon

rubadub wrote: »

Which was it? its not like your disclosing something they are ashamed of, if they are openly bringing it in.

I am interested to know if it is what I would have considered a chipper. I never really thought of beshoffs as a chipper for some reason.

Can't think why not. Chip shop=chippie=chipper, all the same thing.

The shop in question is very famous and isn't Beshoffs....no more clues

I would have named it but I've had a thread locked before after naming businesses - was a tad confused by that, as I thought one of the main functions of the forum was to share experiences and opinions, good or bad.

Faith

Yeah, please don't name the place. There could be several different explanations for what you saw (including that you were simply mistaken), and we don't want libelous accusations being thrown around.

On the topic, I lived in a really small town in Wales for a while and there was very little there, except this fish and chip shop that did the best fish and chips I've ever had. I went there a few times when it was quiet and I had to wait, and I realised that the reason it was so good was because it was freshly battered and fried. Not to order, mind (unless you were the first to order when they'd run out), but they did maybe 5 fish portions at a time. Then again, it was a small town and there was never huge queues, so they could do it easily enough.

rubadub

Chelon wrote: »

Can't think why not. Chip shop=chippie=chipper, all the same thing.

I think I used to presume they were like a mcdonalds, I always guessed they had frozen chips, just because it was a sit down place, like a supermacs fish n chips. It just never looked like a regular italian chipper to me, like how Harry Ramsdens doesn't.

Chelon wrote: »

I would have named it but I've had a thread locked before after naming businesses - was a tad confused by that.

If you are making wild claims I can see it being locked, or giving very negative comments. McDonalds use frozen prebattered frozen fish, I never saw them try and hide the fact. You are going on like its a "name and shame", where they don't appear ashamed at all.

It would not surprise me if burdocks did this, there are several of them now so it would make sense for 1 place to possibly do a lot of the processing and then go around to all the franchises. Keep better consistency, nothing to be ashamed of.

vicwatson

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The fish shop here batters it for you up till about 7 when the queue is out the door then its done in batches and refried. Its all swimming in salt and vinegar and wrapped in white paper.

Funny thing is the place does the worse burgers, reheated in a microwave and stuck in a bun.

you often see couples going in for fish and then across the green to the other shop for burgers.

Whereabouts in Kilkenny?

duckworth

MadsL wrote: »

Possibly avoiding Cod as it is massively overfished and on the red list.

Mads - Cod is the most abundant fish around right now, it's not overfished any more. Also, it's not true that Chippers sell 'fake' cod - its become so cheap and abundant last couple of years that they all sell the real deal.

MadsL

duckworth wrote: »

Mads - Cod is the most abundant fish around right now, it's not overfished any more. Also, it's not true that Chippers sell 'fake' cod - its become so cheap and abundant last couple of years that they all sell the real deal.

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/8784/0

Still listed as Vunerable.

Stocks are recovering, but let's not go calling it "abundant".

wmpdd3

vicwatson wrote: »

Whereabouts in Kilkenny?

Johnny Walkers in Waterford

rawn

rubadub wrote: »

I have never seen it. I have seen them doing cod portions, with their own batter. I have never seen prebattered cod portions being used.

In other threads I have seen people complaining about "chippers" using frozen chips and donegal catch type fish -IMO these, by definition, are simply not chippers.

Glad someone else mentioned this.

Lived in Carlow town for a while and I was so disappointed with the chippers there! Bar one or two places that we (eventually) found, they all served bland, disgusting, pointless frozen chips. They were worse than what you would expect from a chinese. Used to píss me off something fierce because I don't see the point of it, they taste like cardboard and surely are more expensive than buying spuds and chipping them?

The weird thing was I only ever found one place that did a "proper" kebab. You know, lamb/chicken in a pitta bread, full of cabbage and chilli and garlic sauce? They all had weird, disgusting versions of it.

Carlow people are odd.

I used to work on the phones in a chipper in Blanchardstown. If someone asked for S&V on their chips they would fill the bag halfway, add S&V, add more chips and then S&V again. Amazing. A bit more time consuming when busy though but went down well with the customers

Chelon

Still no one from the trade? I'd really love to see just a few of the local chippers trying to improve quality - have you seen the queues outside Beshoff's.....and McDonagh's in Galway.

jpb1974

Still no one from the trade?

Do you really think any sensible business person is going to jump on here and start trying to justify their practices? Going on an internet forum and going head to head with a bunch of internet warriors... not going to happen.

If it meant that much to me I'd go around to my local chippies and speak with owners.

hfallada

Most chippers owners often have 5/6 chippers each. They all get their oil, potatoes and probably fish from the same company. The vinegar actually comes in 20 liter drums, which is 80% acetic acid. 1 liter is diluted down to 20 liters when water is added. The acid is damaging to lungs and when its not diluted it can easily melt plastic.

I went to school with two Italian guys who parents both owned chippers and neither of them would eat from their parents chippers. But most of the other students whose parents had chippers,had no issue with eating chipper food. Its actually healthy than chinese as there is no MSG and other chemicals. And its better than McDonalds or BK as the chips are so thick they dont actually absorb much oil.

MadsL

hfallada wrote: »

Its actually healthy than chinese as there is no MSG and other chemicals. And its better than McDonalds or BK as the chips are so thick they dont actually absorb much oil.

Fish and Chips
___________________________________
Calories 640 Sodium 1 mg
Total Fat 24 g Potassium 0 mg
Saturated 3 g Total Carbs 80 g
Polyunsaturated 0 g Dietary Fiber 11 g
Monounsaturated 0 g Sugars 0 g
Trans 0 g Protein 35 g
Cholesterol 0 mg
Vitamin A 0% Calcium 0%
Vitamin C 0% Iron 0%

_____________________________________

Broccoli and Beef

Calories 120 Sodium 660 mg
Total Fat 4 g Potassium 272 mg
Saturated 1 g Total Carbs 13 g
Polyunsaturated 0 g Dietary Fiber 3 g
Monounsaturated 0 g Sugars 3 g
Trans 0 g Protein 9 g
Cholesterol 10 mg
Vitamin A 10% Calcium 4%
Vitamin C 80% Iron 4%


Healthier than Chinese, sure. Avoid the fried rice and you are grand.

Mr Simpson

Not like for like MadsL. You're assuming the brocolli and beef has no sauce and isnt served with rice or any starchy side

Edit: Also, for a protein count of 9g, you must have about 30g of beef!!

MadsL

Mr Simpson wrote: »

Not like for like MadsL. You're assuming the brocolli and beef has no sauce and isnt served with rice or any starchy side

Edit: Also, for a protein count of 9g, you must have about 30g of beef!!

Here's the source for that.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/harry-ramsdens-fish-and-chips-89966450

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/panda-express-broccoli-beef-net-carbs-89549715

Mr Simpson

Thats still 150g portion (tiny) for Panda Express with no side order. Whereas the fish and chips doesnt list a portion size