I want a contract for renting....

whellman1030

My landlady sold the house and without telling anyone one day she comes and says to everyone in the house "You have one month notice".

So to avoid this situation again I would like to go for a contract for 1 year, but I don't know if it is possible for renting rooms, or if I do have to rent an house?

The_Conductor

Renting rooms- does not entitle you to a lease on the property. Renting the property for exclusive use- does. Even if you have a lease- it could have articles in it allowing for the sale of the property- and specifying the notice period should such an event occur (which must be at least as favourable as the terms governing a Part 4 tenancy). Landlords sell property- and it is one of the valid reasons in the 2004 Act for terminating a tenancy.

whellman1030

Now I texted her asking if I can leave the room earlier and have part of my rent back. She didn't reply. Also tried to call her 2 hours later and she didn't answer or called me back.

Do they have to return part of the rent if I leave earlier? Because other wise as you all know houses disappear in the next day, and I'm forced to rent it now. So if she doesn't return part of my rent it only makes sense start looking 1 week before, and if I can't find an house in 1 week because she is greedy, I guess we will have plenty of problems...

Landlords in Ireland are very old and consider themselves superior as if they would be living in the XVIII century.

It was very sneaky from her to put the house for sale without telling any of the wonderful tenants she has here, taking pictures of our clean room without authorization to put the advertisement online.

And it looks even more stupid from her that she doesn't want to answer our calls.

And BTW she always refused to pass me a receipt from the part of the electricity I pay every month to put on my bills.

So she is a very bad landlady and this is the last drop, because in this house no one ever did anything bad to her.

The_Conductor

There are plenty of very professional landlords in the country- there are also, unfortunately, plenty of landlords- who haven't a vague foggy notion of what they are doing, and who often rely on threats or intimidation to get their own way. On the flipside of the coin- there are plenty of tenants who know the law- and abuse it three ways to kingdom come- because they know they'll get away with it. Neither side are innocent.

Are you entitled to a portion of your rent rebated if you leave early- no, you're not. You would be expected to give normal notice to the landlord of your intention to leave (28 days or whatever) and pay up to the elapse of this.

Should you get a receipt for your portion of the electricity bill- you should get a receipt for any money you pay them. Not necessarily a separate receipt for every little thing- a monthly receipt would more than suffice.

Not all landlords consider themselves superior (in any way at all)- many are desperately trying to keep their heads above the water- the same as anyone else. A few may be doing well- but they're in the minority.

odds_on

whellman1030 wrote: »

My landlady sold the house and without telling anyone one day she comes and says to everyone in the house "You have one month notice".

So to avoid this situation again I would like to go for a contract for 1 year, but I don't know if it is possible for renting rooms, or if I do have to rent an house?

Was this renting a room in the landlady's house and she lives there as well? If this is the case, you were a licensee or lodger with very few rights. The landlady is entitled to a licensee notice at any time (usually accepted period is how you pay the rent - weekly or monthly) without a reason.

If it was not the case, then you were covered by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. Notice to leave must be given in writing and have other specific information otherwise it is invalid.

There are two types of written agreements available: A Licensee/lodger agreement but the usual format is that there is no written agreement. It would basically contain all the do's and dont's that the landlord wants so that his home is kept as he wishes it to be.

A residential tenancies Agreement or lease agreement (usually for a fixed period) is usually used between landlord and tenant. It basically re-states all the obligations as set out in the RTA 2004 plus several other clauses (possible a break clause, restriction clauses (no pets, no smoking etc) as well as stating that it serves as the rent bookj (and therefore that complies with the rent book regulations)

A Part 4 tenancy agreement is also available but often landlords don't bother with them as they basically just contain the obligations of tenants and landlords as set out in the RTA. However, if and when a Fixed term tenancy passes to a Part 4 tenancy, any special provisions that existed in the fixed term continue into the Part 4 agreement, thus landlords don't bother with the trouble and expense of completing Part 4 agreements in writing.

whellman1030

odds_on wrote: »

Was this renting a room in the landlady's house and she lives there as well? If this is the case, you were a licensee or lodger with very few rights. The landlady is entitled to a licensee notice at any time (usually accepted period is how you pay the rent - weekly or monthly) without a reason.

If it was not the case, then you were covered by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004. Notice to leave must be given in writing and have other specific information otherwise it is invalid.

There are two types of written agreements available: A Licensee/lodger agreement but the usual format is that there is no written agreement. It would basically contain all the do's and dont's that the landlord wants so that his home is kept as he wishes it to be.

A residential tenancies Agreement or lease agreement (usually for a fixed period) is usually used between landlord and tenant. It basically re-states all the obligations as set out in the RTA 2004 plus several other clauses (possible a break clause, restriction clauses (no pets, no smoking etc) as well as stating that it serves as the rent bookj (and therefore that complies with the rent book regulations)

A Part 4 tenancy agreement is also available but often landlords don't bother with them as they basically just contain the obligations of tenants and landlords as set out in the RTA. However, if and when a Fixed term tenancy passes to a Part 4 tenancy, any special provisions that existed in the fixed term continue into the Part 4 agreement, thus landlords don't bother with the trouble and expense of completing Part 4 agreements in writing.

In my case she is not living with us. We are all working people and she is a very rich person who rents houses as a personal business.

We don't have any contract, but we have our rent and deposit receipts.

1. In these conditions has she to give the written notice?

2. How can I avoid the landlord from selling the house in the next house I find? Can I just ask him to put a clause on the contract forbidding him to sell the house while I'm there?

3. Another thing I don't like is that we look like hostages of the landlady, because at any moment without any reason, looks like she can give anyone 1 month notice. So for example if I have a problem with her like the electricity receipt, I just had to shut up my mouth!!!! Is this possible to avoid in the future with a proper contract?

Thanks

Paulw

You can contact Threshold for advice and if you have a complaint, you can lodge that with the PRTB.

There are laws out there to protect both tenant and landlord.

odds_on

whellman1030 wrote: »

In my case she is not living with us. We are all working people and she is a very rich person who rents houses as a personal business.

We don't have any contract, but we have our rent and deposit receipts.

If you don't have a written contract/lease, then you must have a rent book. A rent book must contain specific information such as the landlord's name and address for correspondence, as well as stating the rent and type of tenancy.

1. In these conditions has she to give the written notice?

If you had a verbal agreement as to when the tenancy starts and ends, then you have a verbal Fixed term lease and the landlord cannot evict you until the end of the lease.

If you do not have a Fixed term lease, and as you have no written contract you are covered by the Residential tenancies Act 2004. Any Notice of termination must be in writing and give specific information, otherwise it is invalid. A notice period for Termination of a tenancy is specified in the RTA 2004 and depends on how long you have been in occupation of the property (if less that 6 months, 28 days notice; 6 months to 1 year, 35 days notice; more than 1 year but less than 2 years, 42 days notice; and long periods if you have been there longer)

2. How can I avoid the landlord from selling the house in the next house I find? Can I just ask him to put a clause on the contract forbidding him to sell the house while I'm there?

A landlord is entitled to sell their house at any time. Would you like a clause in the lease stating that you cannot leave under any circumstances?

3. Another thing I don't like is that we look like hostages of the landlady, because at any moment without any reason, looks like she can give anyone 1 month notice. So for example if I have a problem with her like the electricity receipt, I just had to shut up my mouth!!!! Is this possible to avoid in the future with a proper contract?

Normally, when renting a property, the utility bills (electric, gas, etc) are put in the tenant's name and the tenant is responsible directly to the utility company.

There are several types of rental agreements which you do not seem to be aware of:
The usual agreement is for a house to be rented as a single unit to several people for a specified rent. All the tenants sign the lease. If one person leaves, the remaining tenants still pay the full rent. In this situation, all tenants are "jointly and severally liable" for the rent. Thus if all the other tenants do not pay, the landlord can ask any one of the tenants for the full rent.

Again, with this form of rental agreement, a tenant who wants to leave, may assign their part of the lease to a new tenant, who must be acceptable to the landlord. However, the other tenants will probably help you to find the new tenant as they will all be jointly and severally liable.

The other form of renting is where each tenant in a house has their own individual lease agreement with the landlord. The agreement usually specifies the room which they are renting and that facilities are shared. In this case, the tenant is only liable for their own rent (i.e. tenants are not "jointly and severally liable"). However, if you wish to leave, you must find a new tenant yourself to whom you can assign your lease.

Leases are usually very standard unless the landlord is very experienced and requires certain clauses to be included. If you want any special clause in a lease, you will find it very difficult to rent a property sharing with others, as the lease agreement will also affect them.

djimi

whellman1030 wrote: »

1. In these conditions has she to give the written notice?

Yes. A month isnt sufficient either.

whellman1030 wrote: »

2. How can I avoid the landlord from selling the house in the next house I find? Can I just ask him to put a clause on the contract forbidding him to sell the house while I'm there?

You cant prevent them from selling the house, but you can ensure that they respect your legal rights and issue you with the sufficient written notice.

whellman1030 wrote: »

3. Another thing I don't like is that we look like hostages of the landlady, because at any moment without any reason, looks like she can give anyone 1 month notice. So for example if I have a problem with her like the electricity receipt, I just had to shut up my mouth!!!! Is this possible to avoid in the future with a proper contract?

The Residential Tenancy Act 2004 is there to ensure that you have protection as a tenant. Once you have been in a property for more than 6 months you cannot be asked to leave with a months notice and if they want to terminate the tenancy it must be for one of a specific set of reasons. If you have a signed fixed term lease then that gives you even more security.

whellman1030

The thing about the electricity bill is that the bill is in her name and I go to ESB every month and pay it for her.

So basically the receipt she wants to give me has her name, but I need it in my name for other pruposes. That's why I asked her if she could pass me a receipt in my name saying that I payed the electricity, and she refused.

whellman1030

A landlord is entitled to sell their house at any time. Would you like a clause in the lease stating that you cannot leave under any circumstances?

Yes I would like to. That's why the contracts. They are not made to be broken.

Anyway I don't see any reason why I would be entitled to leave the house and break the contract legally.

If an house is rented in a contract and the tenant doesn't do anything wrong he is not expecting for one day the landlord to show up and say: "You and your family are out".

Imagine people with kids and that have to drive 1h30m twice a day to go to work, and the loads of stuff you have in an house.

Its always a waste of time, waste of money, and messing with honest people lives, but I guess the man who wrote this quoted sentence is a landlord or is lucky enough to own his own house!

The_Conductor

whellman1030 wrote: »

The thing about the electricity bill is that the bill is in her name and I go to ESB every month and pay it for her.

So basically the receipt she wants to give me has her name, but I need it in my name for other pruposes. That's why I asked her if she could pass me a receipt in my name saying that I payed the electricity, and she refused.

There are legitimate reasons why a landlord would rather keep utility bills in their own name- including, but not limited to, stopping the tenant from changing supplier.

We've had numerous threads about it in this forum already.

The_Conductor

whellman1030 wrote: »

Imagine people with kids and that have to drive 1h30m twice a day to go to work, and the loads of stuff you have in an house.

If you're commuting 3 hours a day- surely its time to move?
Life is too damn short to spend 3 hours a day in a car.

whellman1030

The_Conductor wrote: »

If you're commuting 3 hours a day- surely its time to move?
Life is too damn short to spend 3 hours a day in a car.

That is a so naive statement.....

You don't imagine the number of colleagues I have that do it every day.....

odds_on

whellman1030 wrote: »

Yes I would like to. That's why the contracts. They are not made to be broken.

Anyway I don't see any reason why I would be entitled to leave the house and break the contract legally.

If an house is rented in a contract and the tenant doesn't do anything wrong he is not expecting for one day the landlord to show up and say: "You and your family are out".

Imagine people with kids and that have to drive 1h30m twice a day to go to work, and the loads of stuff you have in an house.

Its always a waste of time, waste of money, and messing with honest people lives, but I guess the man who wrote this quoted sentence is a landlord or is lucky enough to own his own house!

There are many, many posts on this and other forums where tenants are requesting information on how to break a lease. Peoples circumstances do change - family commitments, deaths, job location, personal circumstances (e.g divorce, partner break-ups etc).

Incidently, I am not a landlord, I am a licensee / lodger, living with the owner and 2 other licensee / lodgers. I do not want to tie myself into a contract. I have been renting for the last 18 months.

whellman1030

I think I'm going to an agency, because I think a landlord that puts an house in an agency is unlikely to sell it.

The_Conductor

whellman1030 wrote: »

That is a so naive statement.....

You don't imagine the number of colleagues I have that do it every day.....

Its not naive- I used spend over 4 hours a day on the road myself. I accepted a transfer to a different role, and forewent promotion to get there- so as to shorten my daily commute. I've an extra 3 hours in my day- I'm earning probably 10k less than I would otherwise be- but I'm a damn sight happier.

If you owned the property it would be different- you wouldn't have the same capacity to move- but if you're renting, you do not have the tie to the property that you have as an owner occupier.

The_Conductor

whellman1030 wrote: »

I think I'm going to an agency, because I think a landlord that puts an house in an agency is unlikely to sell it.

They may have no intention of selling it- however, as is often the case, this may be taken out of their hands- particularly if there is an outstanding mortgage on the property.

Landlords can sell property- its their prerogative.

whellman1030

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its not naive- I used spend over 4 hours a day on the road myself. I accepted a transfer to a different role, and forewent promotion to get there- so as to shorten my daily commute. I've an extra 3 hours in my day- I'm earning probably 10k less than I would otherwise be- but I'm a damn sight happier.

If you owned the property it would be different- you wouldn't have the same capacity to move- but if you're renting, you do not have the tie to the property that you have as an owner occupier.

So I presume every time you change jobs, you wife will quit her job and follow you wherever you go.

I can also assume that you changed house after being one year working for the same company, otherwise you change your house and then you're made redundant and you have to move again:D

Don't ask me the reasons, because I'm not part of those guys, but if there's loads of people doing that, it means something, right?:)

The_Conductor

whellman1030 wrote: »

So I presume every time you change jobs, you wife will quit her job and follow you wherever you go.

I can also assume that you changed house after being one year working for the same company, otherwise you change your house and then you're made redundant and you have to move again:D

Don't ask me the reasons, because I'm not part of those guys, but if there's loads of people doing that, it means something, right?:)

I have changed house after working with a company- when I was moved to the other side of the city (I didn't drive at the time- so I didn't really have any other option).

As it happens- both my wife and I are lucky enough to have jobs- and we have both made sacrifices at different times to ensure we work in the same area. It makes life a lot easier- and as we have young children, we have more time to spend with them. We would be earning significantly higher salaries- had we not gone to such effort to move jobs etc- but there is more to life than money- and I'm really happy that I can spend a little more time with my kids, than I might have the opportunity to, were I working elsewhere.

People make choices- mine was to earn enough to live on, but to have time to devote to my wife and my kids. I don't regret it. Sure- extra money would be nice a lot of the time- but not at the cost of loosing the precious few hours I have in the evening with my kids.

ShaShaBear

OP, I think you might have some odd preconceived notions as to what someone can do with a house they might have paid anywhere up to 500 or 600 thousand euro for, and could STILL be paying for.

The long and short of it is that Ireland is in a recession, people are broke, and sometimes they have to sell their house. You cannot prevent it, you cannot stop them - it's their house and not yours. You simply live there and pay for the privilege.

Yes, your landlady did not give you very much notice to leave. But the Irish laws for tenants and landlords is something you should have familiarised yourself with before you decided to rent a property. No point in throwing a hissyfit now about problems that could have been avoided had you brought them up before you moved in.

I got a contract for a nine month student letting in my first house for just one room. I asked for a contract and the home-owners were more than delighted to see that I wanted to be above board and legal. My contract stated that I was a tenant for a fixed term of 9 months. If I left before this time, I was liable for the remainder of the rent, and if they had to move me out they would have to refund me the rent I had already paid.
But I had the good sense to do research before I moved in and handed over a ton of money, so I didn't have to complain at the end of the 9 months when I had to find somewhere else to live!

djimi

ShaShaBear wrote: »

OP, I think you might have some odd preconceived notions as to what someone can do with a house they might have paid anywhere up to 500 or 600 thousand euro for, and could STILL be paying for.

The long and short of it is that Ireland is in a recession, people are broke, and sometimes they have to sell their house. You cannot prevent it, you cannot stop them - it's their house and not yours. You simply live there and pay for the privilege.

Thats not entirely true. You cannot prevent them from selling the house, but if there is a fixed term lease in place that does not write in the provisions for selling the property etc then the landlord is not free to terminate the lease early, even if they wish to sell, and the tenant is perfectly entitled to see out the duration of the lease and await notice as per part 4 tenancy rights when the fixed term lease expires. For the landlord this means either selling with sitting tenants (almost certainly would not be allowed by the buyers or their mortgage provider) or delaying the sale until the lease has expired. Realistically its only delaying matters for the tenant, but while a fixed term lease is in place the landlord is not free to do with the property as they please.

whellman1030

The_Conductor wrote: »

They may have no intention of selling it- however, as is often the case, this may be taken out of their hands- particularly if there is an outstanding mortgage on the property.

Landlords can sell property- its their prerogative.

They can but agencies are still in business for some reason...And its less likely with an agency.

djimi

whellman1030 wrote: »

They can but agencies are still in business for some reason...And its less likely with an agency.

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that a property rented through an agency is less likely to be sold than one that is rented directly from the landlord?

The_Conductor

djimi wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that a property rented through an agency is less likely to be sold than one that is rented directly from the landlord?

I'd love to know too.......
I can't see any reason whatsoever to suggest a property with an agency is any less or more likely to be put on the market for sale, than any other property. There is no difference.

Mrs OBumble

djimi wrote: »

You cant prevent them from selling the house, but you can ensure that they respect your legal rights and issue you with the sufficient written notice.

But the OP sounds like s/he does not want to fulfil their half of the bargain either, by giving the full required notice.

Now I have some sympathy in student towns where rentals are very hard to get at this time of year.

But in the bigger picture, rentals come and go. If you don't own, you can have to move if the owner sells, or various other conditions. If you do own, you can be trapped in negative equity, or in ASB situations if the neighbourhood deteriorates after you've moved in. Or you can end up reposessed if you lose your job and cannot pay the mortgage. No matter which way, there are risks. I actually think the risks are smaller for renters than for owners.

OP, how secure is your employment? What would happen if you got a lease that could not be broken, and then you lost your job and couldn't find another one?

whellman1030

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd love to know too.......
I can't see any reason whatsoever to suggest a property with an agency is any less or more likely to be put on the market for sale, than any other property. There is no difference.

Because the agencies don't want people be telling bad things about them.

Imagine I go to an agency, I have a problem with the landlord. The agency will solve my problem. I have colleagues that are renting through agencies and the agencies solved all their problems.

Basically if a tenant or a landlord stay unhappy with the service the agency provides, its the agency reputation in play because people spread the word and talk to each other. Today with social networks its so easy to spread the word.

djimi

whellman1030 wrote: »

Because the agencies don't want people be telling bad things about them.

Imagine I go to an agency, I have a problem with the landlord. The agency will solve my problem. I have colleagues that are renting through agencies and the agencies solved all their problems.

Basically if a tenant or a landlord stay unhappy with the service the agency provides, its the agency reputation in play because people spread the word and talk to each other. Today with social networks its so easy to spread the word.

The agency only works on behalf of the landlord; they have no real power to sort anything other than fairly minor issues without the consent of the landlord. If a big job needs doing they will not act unless the landlord gives the go ahead (the landlord is the one who pays) and when it comes to something as major as selling the property the agent has absolutely zero say in the matter.

As a tenant I can say that the only real advantage that I see from renting through an agency is that they have a decent network of people to fix issues so if something needs doing they can usually send out the right man for the job in pretty quick time (as opposed to a private landlord who might try and bumble their way through fixing it or drag their heals on the expense of hiring someone). But in no way does renting through an agency give the illusion of added security. The agency are only paid to do a job; they cannot control what the landlord chooses to do (also, its not unheard of for a landlord to drop an agency mid tenancy, or for an agency to drop a landlord because of unpaid fees etc).

ShaShaBear

djimi wrote: »

The agency only works on behalf of the landlord; they have no real power to sort anything other than fairly minor issues without the consent of the landlord. If a big job needs doing they will not act unless the landlord gives the go ahead (the landlord is the one who pays) and when it comes to something as major as selling the property the agent has absolutely zero say in the matter.

As a tenant I can say that the only real advantage that I see from renting through an agency is that they have a decent network of people to fix issues so if something needs doing they can usually send out the right man for the job in pretty quick time (as opposed to a private landlord who might try and bumble their way through fixing it or drag their heals on the expense of hiring someone). But in no way does renting through an agency give the illusion of added security. The agency are only paid to do a job; they cannot control what the landlord chooses to do (also, its not unheard of for a landlord to drop an agency mid tenancy, or for an agency to drop a landlord because of unpaid fees etc).

And I have come across an equal amount of agencies that struggle to get work done because they are only the messenger to the landlord, and things don't often get the whole way around the circle. Communication can make dealing with an agent awkward!