Are tumble dryers now mandatory for rental apartments?

Muahahaha

I was reading a thread over on Irish Landlord about the new regulations that came in for rental properties this year, there is a summary of them here.
http://www.irishlandlord.com/index.aspx?page=infocentre_article_view&id=65

What I hadnt realised before is this stipulation:

In cases where the accommodation does not contain a garden or yard, a tumble dryer must be provided.

That seems to me to cover pretty much every apartment that doesn't have access to an outside garden, which is to say the vast majority of them. So what do people think, are tumble dryers now mandatory in rental apartments ? I've never seen one in a rental over the years, maybe I've just been unlucky but my impression has always been that the landlord provided a washing machine (with some sort of spin cycle) but that you'd need a clothes horse or similar to actually get the clothes dry.

Pawwed Rig

Yes. they should be provided if there are no other drying facilities. Some washing machines are washer dryers so are probably adequate.
Having said that there isn't one in my apartment but then again we don't even have a freezer which is also a requirement

djimi

Yes, you must provide a means to wash and dry laundry, which means a tumble dryer (or washer dryer as is most common) where there is no means of drying clothes outdoors.

djimi

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Having said that there isn't one in my apartment but then again we don't even have a freezer which is also a requirement

Does your fridge have even a small shelf freezer? I believe that is sufficient to meet regulations.

Pawwed Rig

djimi wrote: »

Does your fridge have even a small shelf freezer? I believe that is sufficient to meet regulations.

No it doesn't. Just a fridge. If we asked for a freezer she would probably oblige us but we are happy enough without it for the time being

syklops

I'd rather they make dishwashers mandatory. Living in a house with a dishwasher now after 4 years of being without one. Couldn't go back to being dishwasher-less.

djimi

I could live without a dishwasher; total waste of money and electricity in my mind (although I might feel differently if I had a family!).

I couldnt do without a freezer though; I only have a small fridge and a shelf freezer and it does my head in.

starlit

You could live without a dishwasher but i think a tumble dryer should be imperative. Washing dryer combos are ok in apartments but they arent always great.

Greenmachine

doovdela wrote: »

You could live without a dishwasher but i think a tumble dryer should be imperative. Washing dryer combos are ok in apartments but they arent always great.

We have a washer dryer in our place. Damn things is shared and on one of those stupid meters. :mad:
It has a drying cycle but it won't get my euros for drying.

syklops

doovdela wrote: »

You could live without a dishwasher but i think a tumble dryer should be imperative. Washing dryer combos are ok in apartments but they arent always great.

I am not saying you couldn't live without a dishwasher. I did live with out one for the last 4 years. Im just concerned that forcing the land lord to provide something like this is going to increase the cost of renting, because landlords are going to pass the cost on to the renter.

If I had the choice of a dryer or a dishwasher, Id pick the dishwasher.

Pawwed Rig

syklops wrote: »

Im just concerned that forcing the land lord to provide something like this is going to increase the cost of renting, because landlords are going to pass the cost on to the renter.

Same was said about the property tax but low and behold market prices still dictate.
Landlords will not pass the price onto the renter. Landlords will advertise for the market price whatever that may be.

syklops

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Same was said about the property tax but low and behold market prices still dictate.
Landlords will not pass the price onto the renter. Landlords will advertise for the market price whatever that may be.

Luckily for the landlords, the market price remains quite high.

SpaceTime

I'd have to say though that a lot of smaller capacity, cheaper washer-dryers are next to useless as dryers.

Ray Palmer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Same was said about the property tax but low and behold market prices still dictate.
Landlords will not pass the price onto the renter. Landlords will advertise for the market price whatever that may be.

Yet they changed the legislation to allow it as an expense that can be claimed. Dublin rental went up and it has the high property taxes. So how sure are you it didn't get passed on?

Dryers are required where there is no place to dry clothes so not mandatory on all rentals.

whatnext

SpaceTime wrote: »

I'd have to say though that a lot of smaller capacity, cheaper washer-dryers are next to useless as dryers.

Lived in Apartments for years and without doubt the best piece of kit I have ever bought was a dehumidifier. Jeans, Wool sweaters etc dry in a couple of hours without that damp smell you can sometimes get. Put the clothes out at night dry in the morning and the dehumidifier is working on night rate electricity.

I am also a landlord now and it is something I provide in all apartments.
The amount of hassle it saves in the long run between damp, mould, wood damage and also goodwill from tenants.

Pawwed Rig

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yet they changed the legislation to allow it as an expense that can be claimed. Dublin rental went up and it has the high property taxes. So how sure are you it didn't get passed on?

Because everywhere else is still going down. Therefore following market forces rather than as a result of the property tax. If what you're saying is true then Dublin would have risen by the highest amount with other parts of the country going up by a lower amount which is not what happened. Dublin (particularly D2 and D4 are suffering from a chronic shortage which is reflected in house prices rising along with rents rising. Individual LL's have no control over this and merely charge what the market can take.

Further proving my point how does one explain the drop in rental prices nationwide when the NPPR was introduced? By your rationale rents should have risen.

Scortho

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yet they changed the legislation to allow it as an expense that can be claimed. Dublin rental went up and it has the high property taxes. So how sure are you it didn't get passed on?

Dryers are required where there is no place to dry clothes so not mandatory on all rentals.

Rental prices went up because the market was willing to pay the asking rent.

Rents didn't go up because the tenant was feeling generous.

Ray Palmer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Because everywhere else is still going down. Therefore following market forces rather than as a result of the property tax. If what you're saying is true then Dublin would have risen by the highest amount with other parts of the country going up by a lower amount which is not what happened. Dublin (particularly D2 and D4 are suffering from a chronic shortage which is reflected in house prices rising along with rents rising. Individual LL's have no control over this and merely charge what the market can take.

Further proving my point how does one explain the drop in rental prices nationwide when the NPPR was introduced? By your rationale rents should have risen.

SO you are sure.

You do get not everything is instant and it will be added in calculation for anybody entering the market to rent property? It will be passed on its simple economics. AS you inevitably mention supply and demand the increase in costs fits into who will supply and how much. Rental markets just aren't quick due to the barriers on entry and exit.

syklops

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Further proving my point how does one explain the drop in rental prices nationwide when the NPPR was introduced? By your rationale rents should have risen.

How does one explain the drop in rental prices nationwide? Theres this thing called the recession.

Tar.Aldarion

id just get a clothes horse from argos for 20e. Never use my dishwasher or tumble dryer. I'd go mad without a freezer, wtf.

Pawwed Rig

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You do get not everything is instant and it will be added in calculation for anybody entering the market to rent property?

Agreed but your point below seemed to imply it was instant.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yet they changed the legislation to allow it as an expense that can be claimed. Dublin rental went up and it has the high property taxes. So how sure are you it didn't get passed on?

syklops wrote: »

How does one explain the drop in rental prices nationwide? Theres this thing called the recession.

Exactly.

Landlords like everyone else are having to accept slimmer/zero/negative margins due to the collapse in the economy. No one event such as the cost of a tumble dryer or property tax will effect the market price of rent. It is largely due to supply and demand where the amount that the tenant is willing to spend being the crucial factor. In Dublin the tenant is willing to pay more as they have less choices whereas in Portlaoise the tenant wants to pay less as they can get the same property down the road.

foggy_lad

djimi wrote: »

Does your fridge have even a small shelf freezer? I believe that is sufficient to meet regulations.

Afaik the fridge freezer must be just that and have a separate freezer section and not just an ice-box

ted1

whatnext wrote: »

Lived in Apartments for years and without doubt the best piece of kit I have ever bought was a dehumidifier. Jeans, Wool sweaters etc dry in a couple of hours without that damp smell you can sometimes get. Put the clothes out at night dry in the morning and the dehumidifier is working on night rate electricity.

I am also a landlord now and it is something I provide in all apartments.
The amount of hassle it saves in the long run between damp, mould, wood damage and also goodwill from tenants.

Problem is they cost a fortune to run

whatnext

ted1 wrote: »

Problem is they cost a fortune to run

About €3 per week if it was on for 10 hours a week non stop on day rate electricity. The reality is they work intermittently so on about 20 mins per hour for 10 hrs per week on night rate electricity is is a good bit less than €1/week. I'd say that compares very favourably with a tumble dryer?

ABajaninCork

Ooooh no! When I moved over, I brought my own FF, not realising the house already had one. But the LL's FF is TINY and absolutely no good to us. So I plugged my own in. That packed up last year, so we've replaced it. The LL doesn't mind. I couldn't live without a decent freezer!!

But I'm finding it harder and harder to dry clothes without a tumble with the Irish weather. So that's next on our list. I've finally persuaded my husband to have one.

Dishwasher is nice, but can live without it. What is one's husband for??

Muahahaha

djimi wrote: »

I could live without a dishwasher; total waste of money and electricity in my mind (although I might feel differently if I had a family!).

I couldnt do without a freezer though; I only have a small fridge and a shelf freezer and it does my head in.

You think that is bad well I had a fridge with a shelf freezer that used to do my head in. But then it broke down and my landladys dad replaced it while I was out and I came home to find the cheapest fridge with no shelf freezer installed where the old one was :rolleyes: Only for my landlady is so sound on other things I would have been sending it back. I've put it with having no freezer for 6 months now and am sick of it so I am currently scouring Donedeal & Adverts- you can get full height fridge freezers second hand for €80+ so I'm just gonna go with one of them and finally switch off the tiny freezer-less bar fridge.

Just on the tumble dryer thing- people say the regs allow for a washer-dryer instead of a washer and separate tumble dryer. What exactly is a washer-dryer- like my machine gives the clothes a bit of a spin at the end of the cycle, when they come out they are far from 100% dry but they are not soaking either. Is this what is meant by washer-dryer ?

Must also say the dehumidfier idea is a good one, never realised you can dry clothes with them. Would putting clothes in a small area (like a hallway with all doors shut) with a dehumidifier mean running it is more efficient ?

ted1

whatnext wrote: »

About €3 per week if it was on for 10 hours a week non stop on day rate electricity. The reality is they work intermittently so on about 20 mins per hour for 10 hrs per week on night rate electricity is is a good bit less than €1/week. I'd say that compares very favourably with a tumble dryer?

.7kw*10*.19c=1.33€ per day @ 10 hours or 43c if on for 20mins per hour
so between €3 per week and €9.31 per week.
=between €156 and €484 per year

i'd like to see them on a logger to see what the actual usage is like. I suspect that the usage is more than 20mins per hour

few people actually have night rates.

in summary its abotu 3 times dearer than you think but it could be 9.3 times dearer. then if its left on for 24 hours its even more

djimi

Muahahaha wrote: »

You think that is bad well I had a fridge with a shelf freezer that used to do my head in. But then it broke down and my landladys dad replaced it while I was out and I came home to find the cheapest fridge with no shelf freezer installed where the old one was :rolleyes: Only for my landlady is so sound on other things I would have been sending it back. I've put it with having no freezer for 6 months now and am sick of it so I am currently scouring Donedeal & Adverts- you can get full height fridge freezers second hand for €80+ so I'm just gonna go with one of them and finally switch off the tiny freezer-less bar fridge.

Just on the tumble dryer thing- people say the regs allow for a washer-dryer instead of a washer and separate tumble dryer. What exactly is a washer-dryer- like my machine gives the clothes a bit of a spin at the end of the cycle, when they come out they are far from 100% dry but they are not soaking either. Is this what is meant by washer-dryer ?

A washer dryer has an actual dryer built in, so when the wash cycle finishes it goes through a full drying cycle. Theyre not great tbh; the one we have does the job but would be nowhere near as good as a dedicated dryer.

I wouldnt have accepted that fridge tbh; the shelf freezer might not be great but it at least means you can store half a bag of chips or whatever. Not being able to store any frozen food is not acceptable; decent landlord or not they are taking the piss out of you tbh.

fussyonion

Pawwed Rig, do you not have a freezer at all?

Tar.Aldarion

djimi wrote: »

A washer dryer has an actual dryer built in, so when the wash cycle finishes it goes through a full drying cycle. Theyre not great tbh; the one we have does the job but would be nowhere near as good as a dedicated dryer.

I wouldnt have accepted that fridge tbh; the shelf freezer might not be great but it at least means you can store half a bag of chips or whatever. Not being able to store any frozen food is not acceptable; decent landlord or not they are taking the piss out of you tbh.

washer/dryers are not the best due to it being soaking in there and taking ages to get up to full drying potential imo, always find that after a wash that it will take much longer.

djimi

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

washer/dryers are not the best due to it being soaking in there and taking ages to get up to full drying potential imo, always find that after a wash that it will take much longer.

Makes perfect sense actually. Must try taking the clothes out for a couple of hours and see if it works any better.

enda1

Are you not allowed offer unfurnished apartments in Ireland?

Pawwed Rig

fussyonion wrote: »

Pawwed Rig, do you not have a freezer at all?

No:(
To be fair we knew when we moved in that there was none and discussed whether we could live with that or not and decided we could. It hasn't really been too much of an issue as we buy what we want and consume it within a reasonable amount of time. The only thing I miss is having no tubs of icecream in the house but that is probably for the best.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't think so.


Yeah leaving out the washing for a few hours makes a huge difference, overnight is handy

ABajaninCork

enda1 wrote: »

Are you not allowed offer unfurnished apartments in Ireland?

You can, but they're very thin on the ground. They tend to go very quickly, IME.

whatnext

ted1 wrote: »

.7kw*10*.19c=1.33€ per day @ 10 hours or 43c if on for 20mins per hour
so between €3 per week and €9.31 per week.
=between €156 and €484 per year

i'd like to see them on a logger to see what the actual usage is like. I suspect that the usage is more than 20mins per hour

few people actually have night rates.

in summary its abotu 3 times dearer than you think but it could be 9.3 times dearer. then if its left on for 24 hours its even more

Mine is a 200w appliance.
My annual electricity bill is less than €1,500 for the entire 2 bed apartment with storage heating (usually around 200 never over 300. bi monthly). no gas. Two adults one child / baby. So with the washing machine on every day, a full tank of water every day, cooking, microwave, TV etc I cant see how it could be anywhere remotely near the figures you quote. Could be wrong.
The thing only clicks in when the humidity level rises, and cuts off automatically.
Also - "most" newish apartments that have storage heaters have the night rate meter. Well any have lived in or owned.

djimi

enda1 wrote: »

Are you not allowed offer unfurnished apartments in Ireland?

You can offer unfurnished to a point but the regulations state that you must provide items such as a fridge/freezer, cooker, microwave, means to wash and dry clothes etc, so its not like you can offer a completely bare property.

That said, there isnt going to be an inspector randomly knocking the door to check, so if a tenant has all their own appliances, so if they can find a property that is truely unfurnished and they are happy to use their own equipment then there wont be an issue. From a landlords point of view though they need to be prepared to provide it unless the tenant agrees otherwise.

Ray Palmer

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You can, but they're very thin on the ground. They tend to go very quickly, IME.

You can't get a completely unfurnished place as they require cooker, fridges, freezers, microwave and dryer if no outside space.

fussyonion

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

No:(
To be fair we knew when we moved in that there was none and discussed whether we could live with that or not and decided we could. It hasn't really been too much of an issue as we buy what we want and consume it within a reasonable amount of time. The only thing I miss is having no tubs of icecream in the house but that is probably for the best.

I don't know why but my heart goes out to you for some reason!

I'm picturing you there, surrounded by a mountain of food, eating it all before it goes off
I checked Gumtree there and there's some fairly decent freezers for sale, not too expensive either.

I want to look after you now, I've gone all Mammy-ish!

Pawwed Rig

Haha We're fine. We are just more conscious of expiry dates and that so food (meat) lasts in the fridge. Other than that we stick to fresh veg rather than frozen and come Thurs and Fri it is take away time anyway. We very rarely throw food out though as we tend to use everything we buy in the normal course of meals. So no need for Mammying. Unless you have icecream? I miss icecream:(

fussyonion

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Haha We're fine. We are just more conscious of expiry dates and that so food (meat) lasts in the fridge. Other than that we stick to fresh veg rather than frozen and come Thurs and Fri it is take away time anyway. We very rarely throw food out though as we tend to use everything we buy in the normal course of meals. So no need for Mammying. Unless you have icecream? I miss icecream:(

Aw yeah I have ice-cream..Actually Aldi do some very nice tubs that are soft-scoop so you could buy one and eat it all straight away!

It sounds like you're doing alright without a freezer and I suppose you're right, you wouldn't be throwing anything out.

I dread to think what's in the depths of my freezer and I keep adding to it every week