Engineer Problem

cluelessx2

Hi

I'm really upset and am hoping someone can offer advice. We were abroad while our house was being built last year, and we hired an engineer, who charged us a significant amount of money, to supervise the build. When there was an issue, he sometimes texted us, sometimes our architect (who was no longer retained by us and this was made clear numerous times), or sometimes, just didn't bother. We took him on a recommendation from friends who had him just for the stage payment sign-offs, so didn't realize quite what he was like. (we requested numerous times that he call us, and deal with us, but he refused to engage other than by text). As we didn't' want to rock boat with bank, we let it continue - he had signed off something to do with our mortgage application so we were afraid if eng name changed it could cause issues.

So he eventually did final inspection, last Dec, before house was complete (maybe this is standard practice, but seems a bit unusual to us). We moved in Dec 21st, and we gave our own list of snags to builder. The builder got onto us only in August looking to clear the snags (there were no major items, and we had reached out to him in March timeframe, but hadn’t really pushed it). So engineer came back to check snags were complete on Sunday just past. There are a few items outstanding, and I don’t feel that we should pay him until these are all resolved as some are items that are ‘engineering’ related that we don’t really understand so couldn't actually assess.

This is where my extreme upset comes from. I was dissatisfied with him before, now I’m furious. The engineer called my husband this morning and said that if we don’t pay him by Friday of this week, he is going to send a solicitors letter to our solicitor looking for withdrawal of his approval of house documentation, and also get onto the local county council declaring that there are items not meeting regs. (we don’t have entrance’s finished, so no access ramp at front door, there’s an internal door that doesn’t open per regs, and there’s a rogue velux window).

I am so upset about this. Is there anything we can do other than succumb to his blackmail and pay him? We obviously don’t want to take any risks around our mortgage or get hassle from planners (we could move door and get retention for windows without much of an issue, the ramp is part of the patio plan so can’t afford it right now). Would really appreciate any advice that may be forthcoming. Thanks.

A.

sinnerboy

It seems you are holding back payments from the engineer because the builder has not completed his works. If that is the case , that is not smart.

cluelessx2

Well what our engineer was tasked to do was co-coordinating with the builder. From what I can see, our builder has no issues with completing the work, and expect it will all be closed by month end - I don't quite understand how I can (or should) pay engineer when he isn't finished? (also, I'm thinking his aggressive approach doesn't endear him to me either, since in 2 days we went from not requesting money to threatening phonecalls).

sinnerboy

Sort it out. Forget that you'll never have him over for Christmas dinner. You need him to ensure the builder actually completes his works. the engineer did his final inspection in Dec and another final inspection just recently. The builder is the pest here not the engineer.

I am sympathetic but I am trying to give you best advice here.

cluelessx2

And I appreciate that, thank you. I suppose where I'm at is, if I pay him, who checks what the builder does? He will never come out again if he is paid. (although, after the 20 min roasting he gave my husband out of the blue, we're not so keen on having him out again anyway;))

sinnerboy

Put cards on the table. If I was him ( the engineer ) I would be fearful that you are giving the builder all the time in the world to complete his works and in this process delaying payment to me.

As much as it may kill you look to reach common ground with the engineer. Offer a split payemt. Even an extra payment for the delay your approach with the builder has cost the engineer.

Look forward 10/15/20 years past this point in time. You need all works completed all documents in place for the duration. Get that sorted out and then buy a dartboard , put a photo of the engineer on it and play away!

BryanF

snagged December, builder fixing snags in september??? wha?? was there trouble with money? why were the snags not completed by end of janruary?

the_syco

cluelessx2 wrote: »

We moved in Dec 21st, and we gave our own list of snags to builder. The builder got onto us only in August looking to clear the snags (there were no major items, and we had reached out to him in March timeframe, but hadn’t really pushed it).

Are you withholding money from the builder, and if not, why not?

cluelessx2

I know, it sounds very random. Basically, no one came near us since Dec - we asked builder to come do snags in March but got no reply. We owed him the last stage payment so decided (not really consciously, more we didn't' drive anything) that if he wanted to let us wait, then we'd let it - there was nothing critical outstanding. The engineer also never came near us for last 9 months, until builder rang looking for money. I said, no problem - the minute you resolve snags I'll pay you. Builder did suggest that snags were minor, and structurally, they are, visually, there were a couple nasties, so I should only hold back 1-2k - I didn't agree, hence why I had builder on site in Aug sorting out snags. Builder then called engineer to come out to house to inspect, and eng came on Sunday. This is why this whole thing being such a debacle out of nowhere is so upsetting.

Poor Uncle Tom

Your engineer needs to explain why was the house signed off last December if there were major issues with the house (couple of nasties as you put it).

Standard procedure from here in my opinion would be to let your solicitor deal with this now. What your engineer is suggesting here is nothing short of blackmail and nobody should have to put up with that. Make it clear that the builder will be paid when he has completed works to the satisfaction of the engineer and that the engineer will be paid when he completes his works to the satisfaction of your solicitor.

If anything should manifest itself with your house as a result of bad workmanship or issues with significant differences from the planning permission details then you should see both the builder and engineer in front of a judge.

From what you have said there is no reason for the engineer's attitude and aggressive nature and I certainly wouldn't pander to him by throwing money at him. The engineering job is no different to any other, only pay for it when it is done, clearly it is not done if there are works outstanding.

Poor Uncle Tom

Just a point here...

cluelessx2 wrote: »

and also get onto the local county council declaring that there are items not meeting regs..

Why has this person signed off on your house last December if there are items not meeting regulations? Get your solicitor to get a written answer to this please.

sinnerboy

cluelessx2 wrote: »

... there was nothing critical outstanding. ....l builder rang looking for money.... This is why this whole thing being such a debacle out of nowhere ....

I see things differently to PUT , obviously.

fealeranger

I agree with the mods on this issue. I had similar issues on this kind of thing in my build as in builders delaying and trying to do things their own way. Engineer has to be paid and the builder has to get the finger out to finish his snag list. I doubt an engineer would sign off on a house these days if it is not habitable. How bad is this snag list if you are trying to retain the engineer to check the work. Bottom line is your builder is holding you up so give him a gentle push to hurry on and pay your engineer.

No6

I can see the engineers point , if he signed off at christmas why hasnt he been paid for his work? Stage payments for a bank and Final sign off are two different things.

I used to be nice an not look for payment for my final sign off until after the job was finished, but in my area a number of clients left the minimum ammount of the mortgage to be drawndown without triggering the final certification from the bank and so wandered off into the sunset and convently forgot about paying little old me!!

Imaging their suprise when the Law society tightened up on solicitors holding onto these unfinalised morgtage a/c's some for up to ten years and they had to come and get the certificates, it was payment upfront please and thank you.

So after a few years of this I changed to looking for my final payment when I did the second last drawdown, all the clients were told why and none had any problems with it.

However in the op's case I feel the Engineer may not have explianed the situation adequately, he should have invoiced them months ago if he had signed off on it. IF he had and wasn't paid by now he is within his rights to start with solicitors letters etc, after two days, I dont think so.

The builder, retention etc are to do with the building contract (if there is one) the engineers fees are normally outside this so one is not dependant on the other. If he has signed off for it he has taken some liability for it therefore he need to be paid for it. Sangs are sangs and all builders are very bad at coming back to do them, if they put as much energy into fixing snags as avoiding doing them the world would be a happier place for sure!!