The difference between free weights and machines

KingOfFairview

I'm really asking this out of curiosity more than anything, but why is it that there is such a big disparity in how much I (and presumably everyone else) can bench press when using a machine or dumbbells?

For example, on an independent chest press machine I use, I generally do 3x10 reps of 70kg, but I could and have done 80 in the past. But when bench pressing with dumbbells, I can just about do the same amount of sets and reps with 22.5 kg in each hand. From what I understand, the same muscles are being used, so why the huge difference in capabilities?

thegreatiam

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'm really asking this out of curiosity more than anything, but why is it that there is such a big disparity in how much I (and presumably everyone else) can bench press when using a machine or dumbbells?

For example, on an independent chest press machine I use, I generally do 3x10 reps of 70kg, but I could and have done 80 in the past. But when bench pressing with dumbbells, I can just about do the same amount of sets and reps with 22.5 kg in each hand. From what I understand, the same muscles are being used, so why the huge difference in capabilities?

Some of the machine weight is supported by the machine.
This is one of the reasons people recommend free weights.
You also need to engage more muscle indirectly to hold a free weight. You might be working your chest and arms, but you abs back and legs all get worked just ot keep you on the bench.

KingOfFairview

thegreatiam wrote: »

Some of the machine weight is supported by the machine.
This is one of the reasons people recommend free weights.
You also need to engage more muscle indirectly to hold a free weight. You might be working your chest and arms, but you abs back and legs all get worked just ot keep you on the bench.

OK, thanks. So in general free weights are better. Are there any advantages to using the machine as well?

thegreatiam

KingOfFairview wrote: »

OK, thanks. So in general free weights are better. Are there any advantages to using the machine as well?

machines are designed to isolate a muscle and a plane of movement. use them for doing that.

KingOfFairview

thegreatiam wrote: »

machines are designed to isolate a muscle and a plane of movement. use them for doing that.

My chest routine is

3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses

3x10 70kg chest press machine

3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses again

3x10 70kg seated fly

2x15 17.5 kg dumbbell pullovers (these are a recent addition)

In general is this an OK workout? I'm definitely progressing but maybe not as fast as I'd like to be.

thegreatiam

KingOfFairview wrote: »

My chest routine is

3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses

3x10 70kg chest press machine

3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses again

3x10 70kg seated fly

2x15 17.5 kg dumbbell pullovers (these are a recent addition)

In general is this an OK workout? I'm definitely progressing but maybe not as fast as I'd like to be.

progressing in what way? what are your goals? figure your goals and work a program to fulfill them.

KingOfFairview

thegreatiam wrote: »

progressing in what way? what are your goals? figure your goals and work a program to fulfill them.

Well, I'm increasing how much I can lift and my chest is getting bigger. To give a rough idea, when I first started doing weights c. a year ago, most of those kgs values would have been halved (so starting from a low base). I'm heading in the right direction but in terms of that workout, should I be adding anything in? I was thinking of trying dips.

thegreatiam

and where did you get your routine? and what is the whole routine?

KingOfFairview

thegreatiam wrote: »

and where did you get your routine? and what is the whole routine?

I'm just adding in things that seem to be working for me, but I have little frame of reference, so for all I know I could be benefiting much more from adding in other parts. Like I said, it is working for me, I just wonder what else would make it more effective.

I use the gym three times a week, I don't have time for much more than that. I'd generally be there for an hour and a bit.

Chest day: as described, plus 3x30 situps, 3x10 hammer curls or 3x10 concentrations curls, 10x70kg lat pulldowns.

Arm day: 6x10 seated curls, 20kgs each hand
6x10 tricep rows, 22.5kg each hand
3x10 hammer curls and 3x10 concentrations curls,
10x70kg lat pulldowns
3x30 situps
3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses

Shoulder day: 6x10 seated shoulder presses, 22.5 kg each hand
6x10 shrugs, 25kg each hand (these seem to be having no effect TBH)
3x30 situps,
3x10 hammer curls or 3x10 concentrations curls,
10x70kg lat pulldowns

I don't have leg day (I know this marks me out as a cunt), but I do swim about once a week and climbs 6 flights of stairs several times a day, so make of that what you will.

In all categories I'm progressing, i.e. able to add weight every 4 weeks or so.

Zombienosh

So you don't work legs....and you don't work back...

You've been doing chest arms and shoulders for a year?

KingOfFairview

Zombienosh wrote: »

So you don't work legs....and you don't work back...

You've been doing chest arms and shoulders for a year?

Yes and yes. I do my lats, but that's all for back.

Zombienosh

You should pick a real program. I'd recommend a 5x5 program.

thegreatiam

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I'm just adding in things that seem to be working for me, but I have little frame of reference, so for all I know I could be benefiting much more from adding in other parts. Like I said, it is working for me, I just wonder what else would make it more effective.

this is your mistake i think, you keep saying you add what works for you.
That is the beauty of the human body, it adapts to anything, you will make progress almost no matter what you do to it. just because yuo perceive it as working for you doesnt mean its safe, or wise.

Chest day: as described, plus 3x30 situps, 3x10 hammer curls or 3x10 concentrations curls, 10x70kg lat pulldowns.

KingOfFairview wrote: »

Arm day: 6x10 seated curls, 20kgs each hand
6x10 tricep rows, 22.5kg each hand
3x10 hammer curls and 3x10 concentrations curls,
10x70kg lat pulldowns
3x30 situps
3x10 22.5 per hand dumbbell presses

Shoulder day: 6x10 seated shoulder presses, 22.5 kg each hand
6x10 shrugs, 25kg each hand (these seem to be having no effect TBH)
3x30 situps,
3x10 hammer curls or 3x10 concentrations curls,
10x70kg lat pulldowns

I don't have leg day (I know this marks me out as a cunt), but I do swim about once a week and climbs 6 flights of stairs several times a day, so make of that what you will.

In all categories I'm progressing, i.e. able to add weight every 4 weeks or so.

sounds like you are still a beginner. this doesn't mean you are new and inexperienced, it means you are still able to exercise and recover and you haven't reached the maximum of what your body is capable.

beginners see the biggest % increase in size and strength.
intermediates share some of this, but need to lift heavier weights to make a change, this means they need more recovery. advanced need to lift a **** load and recover for ages to see a small gain.

So. as a beginner you need to take advantage of this fact and hit big muscles often.
limit your isolation, stick to large multi joint compound lifts.
bench, squat deadlift, press, rows, pullups and dips etc.
choose a weight you can lift 6-8 times and do 3-5 sets. Don't go to failure, this will only increase recovery time.
add weight each and every session.

you need to ignore machines and work with barbells, this is because you have no basis to work from. its not good doing a chest routine if you dont have a strong back. you will eventually be lifting weights for your chest and your back will stop you progressing.

what you are currently doing is adding spoilers and rims to a car with no engine. and wondering why it doesn't go fast.

this is my current routine, it takes an hour with warm up.
a
squat
bench
row
pull ups

b
squat
oh press
deadlift
dips

If you want you can add some bicep curls and pull overs, calf raises and face pulls for the shoulders but tbh its not needed. just make sure they don't tire you out.

Get your squat, deadlift, to over 1.5 BW
your bench and row to BW
and do 8-10 pull ups
then look in a mirror and decide what muscles you'd like to be bigger.

once you do that you will be able to move weights with your whole body that are large enough to affect change on the rest of your body.

KingOfFairview

What's BW?

Zombienosh

Bodyweight

KingOfFairview

Going to try squats and dips tonight. Bearing in mind I don't have access to barbells, what sort of weights/reps/sets would be good for a first try? I'm assuming I should ease myself into these.

Detest

Andy Bolton stated that machines in the gym were good for hanging your coat on... I concur.