Death & Judgement : Christianity

hinault

Christian teaching tells us that when we die that our souls will be accountable before God.

Different strands of Christianity teaches different things with regard to death and judgement.

Catholics believe in a concept called Particular Judgement that immediately after death, the eternal destiny of each separated soul is decided by the just judgement of God.

Evangelical protestants appear to believe that judgement may be delayed until such point as all souls are judged as part of end of the world.

In either case, will judgement include every soul being given full disclosure of what every other soul thought/did throughout their human life?
In other words will we be given access to a record of what other people did and did not do, access to what other people did or did not think?

I've read contradictory stuff about this over the years.

On the basis of Scripture Christ will judge all men, on what they have thought, desired, said, done, and omitted.

So what do you believe will entail at the point of death and what will judgement entail?

newmug

Taken from another thread:


This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider. He'll make the arguement that nobody's perfect, and that whatever you did during your life, sure didnt he pay for it in advance anyway by His Crucifiction. He'll point out any time you suffered in your Earthly life, and ask that that be taken into account in your favour. He'll agree that you probably do deserve hell, but if there is a single grain of love or goodness in your heart, you should be shown some forgiveness and mercy.

This is where your actions in life will come into play. If you were a good Catholic, you've already ticked all the "Good" boxes. So the less you sinned, the less will be subtracted from your score, as it were. If you were not Catholic, then it becomes more complicated. You would have had to do an enormous amount of good in your life to gain the grace that even one mass would gain for you. Either way, God The Father will then make a decision on whats to be done with you. There's no point in harming your chances by being a non-Catholic while in this life though, you only have ONE crack at life!

For most people then, its purgatory. Basically its hell, but with a return ticket when you've purged yourself. Think of it as a reduced sentence, thanks to Jesus. So you're plunged into "lake of fire", much akin to a volcano or the centre of the Earth. Did you ever get into the bath when its too hot? Well multiply that by a billion billion billion, and you've some idea of the pain. The kids at Fatima saw it, as did the kids at Cappoquin, and thats how they described it. People wallowing around all orange and on fire, arms flailing, people roaring and screaming with helplessness and pain. And of course, the evil divil himself down there, instilling fear, terror and psychological suffering too! Think of that the next time you tell a porky pie!

And there you'll be, smothering in molten rock, asking yourself why you missed mass, why you were stupid enough to ride all those young-ones before marraige, why you didnt just believe in God even in the off-chance He was real, if only you could have another go at life you'd be a priest etc etc.

Then it all depends on how long you have to stay there. Jesus himself was there for three days, and He never comitted a sin in His life! Thats just the way it is.

I love the verse in the Bible where the man being crucified beside Jesus was fair, when the other man was sneering at Jesus, and Jesus said to him "Today, you will be with me in Paradise". That always gives me great solace. It shows that you dont always have to go to hell, or at least not for too long. That man suffered enough on the cross to pay for his sins. However I believe most people will stay in hell till Judgement Day. It will be then, that you are either told you have been purged and are allowed into Heaven, or you will be told sorry bud, back with ya, this time forever.

Anyway, for those that get into Heaven, it will be exactly like you remember Earth (it WILL be Earth in fact), only there will be no sorrow, hatred, fear, hunger, war, or evil of any kind, and there WILL be GOD himself, there to personally iron out every little problem you ever have, and everybody will be in ecstacy with love and peace and positivity and happiness and joy!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiOncZT0TI

Manach

My own understanding, at least on Purgatory based on an Nihil Obstat source, is that while it is a place of purification for those not let ready for heaven the essential characteristic differs entirely from that of Hell, and is a place of cleansing prior to the journey onward.

hinault

newmug wrote: »

Taken from another thread:


This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider. He'll make the arguement that nobody's perfect, and that whatever you did during your life, sure didnt he pay for it in advance anyway by His Crucifiction. He'll point out any time you suffered in your Earthly life, and ask that that be taken into account in your favour. He'll agree that you probably do deserve hell, but if there is a single grain of love or goodness in your heart, you should be shown some forgiveness and mercy.

This is where your actions in life will come into play. If you were a good Catholic, you've already ticked all the "Good" boxes. So the less you sinned, the less will be subtracted from your score, as it were. If you were not Catholic, then it becomes more complicated. You would have had to do an enormous amount of good in your life to gain the grace that even one mass would gain for you. Either way, God The Father will then make a decision on whats to be done with you. There's no point in harming your chances by being a non-Catholic while in this life though, you only have ONE crack at life!

For most people then, its purgatory. Basically its hell, but with a return ticket when you've purged yourself. Think of it as a reduced sentence, thanks to Jesus. So you're plunged into "lake of fire", much akin to a volcano or the centre of the Earth. Did you ever get into the bath when its too hot? Well multiply that by a billion billion billion, and you've some idea of the pain. The kids at Fatima saw it, as did the kids at Cappoquin, and thats how they described it. People wallowing around all orange and on fire, arms flailing, people roaring and screaming with helplessness and pain. And of course, the evil divil himself down there, instilling fear, terror and psychological suffering too! Think of that the next time you tell a porky pie!

And there you'll be, smothering in molten rock, asking yourself why you missed mass, why you were stupid enough to ride all those young-ones before marraige, why you didnt just believe in God even in the off-chance He was real, if only you could have another go at life you'd be a priest etc etc.

Then it all depends on how long you have to stay there. Jesus himself was there for three days, and He never comitted a sin in His life! Thats just the way it is.

I love the verse in the Bible where the man being crucified beside Jesus was fair, when the other man was sneering at Jesus, and Jesus said to him "Today, you will be with me in Paradise". That always gives me great solace. It shows that you dont always have to go to hell, or at least not for too long. That man suffered enough on the cross to pay for his sins. However I believe most people will stay in hell till Judgement Day. It will be then, that you are either told you have been purged and are allowed into Heaven, or you will be told sorry bud, back with ya, this time forever.

Anyway, for those that get into Heaven, it will be exactly like you remember Earth (it WILL be Earth in fact), only there will be no sorrow, hatred, fear, hunger, war, or evil of any kind, and there WILL be GOD himself, there to personally iron out every little problem you ever have, and everybody will be in ecstacy with love and peace and positivity and happiness and joy!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiOncZT0TI

Once you are condemned to Hell, there is no chance that that decision will be rescinded.
Christianity teaches that Hell exists and that being condemned to Hell lasts for eternity.

In contrast, as another poster has pointed out, purgatory exists and it is the state where those not condemned to Hell are sent to, if they're not pure enough to be admitted to Heaven.

As regards Jesus, Jesus is mercy. His mercy may help temper God's justice.
However we can't avail of that mercy unless we follow to letter Jesus teachings throughout this life.

santing

newmug wrote: »

Taken from another thread:
...
Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider.

One flaw in this argument is that it is actually Jesus who is the judge.

And [the Father] has given [Jesus] authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. (Joh 5:27)
And [God] commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that [Jesus] is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. (Act 10:42)
Because [God] has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead." (Act 17:31)

lmaopml

hinault wrote: »

Christian teaching tells us that when we die that our souls will be accountable before God.

Different strands of Christianity teaches different things with regard to death and judgement.

Catholics believe in a concept called Particular Judgement that immediately after death, the eternal destiny of each separated soul is decided by the just judgement of God.

Evangelical protestants appear to believe that judgement may be delayed until such point as all souls are judged as part of end of the world.

In either case, will judgement include every soul being given full disclosure of what every other soul thought/did throughout their human life?
In other words will we be given access to a record of what other people did and did not do, access to what other people did or did not think?

I've read contradictory stuff about this over the years.

On the basis of Scripture Christ will judge all men, on what they have thought, desired, said, done, and omitted.

So what do you believe will entail at the point of death and what will judgement entail?

hinault did you ever read any of Cardinal Newman's work? Fabulous!
His poem 'The Dream of Gerontius' is perhaps the closest way I would think of all those, 'last things' as we say.
It's a description of this man's final moments and what follows....It would incorporate the understanding that because God is love that both his justice and mercy are aspects of that love (like a consuming fire, as Scripture says) and how we draw near to it and away ourselves. It's a purifying love if you will....
I love Cardinal Newman, such a magnificent and lovely mind.

Here's a link if you would like to have a read through it...
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/verses/gerontius.html

SoulandForm

hinault wrote: »

So what do you believe will entail at the point of death and what will judgement entail?

I believe that there is a judgement after death but that the final damnation of a soul isnt decided until the Last Judgement and that Judgement can be influenced both by the prayers of the living and the internal disposition of the soul in question- not very Protestant but there you go.

santing

SoulandForm wrote: »

I believe that there is a judgement after death but that the final damnation of a soul isnt decided until the Last Judgement ....

Is there any reference of someone being saved at the Last Judgement (Rev 21:10-15)?

SoulandForm

santing wrote: »

Is there any reference of someone being saved at the Last Judgement (Rev 21:10-15)?

Im not putting it forward as something that anybody else should believe but in BUT
"I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" Revelation 1:18- so if He hold the Keys is it not possible that He can release people?

I will try to find more in from the Bible that might justify my position.

santing

SoulandForm wrote: »

Im not putting it forward as something that anybody else should believe but in BUT
"I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" Revelation 1:18- so if He hold the Keys is it not possible that He can release people?

I will try to find more in from the Bible that might justify my position.

Rev 1:18 says "I have the keys of death and hades" (any translation except AV) which are thrown in the Lake of Fire (Hell) Rev 20:14.
So the keys spoken of in Rev 1:18 are useful (or used) before the Last Judgement.

leonil7

Judgement is inevitable, it is for all.
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

But the verdict is already known or has already been made. it is a PROMISE:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

What separates the guilty (condemned) and not guilty, is faith in jesus christ and the work that he has done (salvation).

This is basically the gospel - good news. Judged but not condemned to those who put their faith in JC.

SoulandForm

Manach wrote: »

My own understanding, at least on Purgatory based on an Nihil Obstat source, is that while it is a place of purification for those not let ready for heaven the essential characteristic differs entirely from that of Hell, and is a place of cleansing prior to the journey onward.

I dont want to start a sectarian bun fight but Im nearly sure that Purgatory in RC understanding is a place of expiation for the temporal punishments due for sin- the idea of some type of purification after death is something that I could accept while as I could not accept the former.

Manach

SoulandForm wrote: »

I dont want to start a sectarian bun fight but Im nearly sure that Purgatory in RC understanding is a place of expiation for the temporal punishments due for sin- the idea of some type of purification after death is something that I could accept while as I could not accept the former.

Going to another source, the apologist Karl Keating he says in summary, that in Purgatory this purifcation cleansing is can be likened to an anteroom adjacent to Heaven where one reflects on the self-interest of one's mortal life after repenting of one's sins.

SoulandForm

Manach wrote: »

Going to another source, the apologist Karl Keating he says in summary, that in Purgatory this purifcation cleansing is can be likened to an anteroom adjacent to Heaven where one reflects on the self-interest of one's mortal life after repenting of one's sins.

Im not at home at the moment so I cant check sources but Im sure according to official teaching of the RCC punishment is involved.