Rent Allowance

four legs good

I see a lot of comment on here as to why landlords don't accept rent allowance; from-more wear and tear on the property than working tenants, to - they can get more on the open market, tenants not caring about paperwork and payments being missed, and that they're all unsavoury characters.

In my opinion the real reason is plain for anybody to see on daft.ie, its TAX AVOIDANCE!

Estate agents (some of them are not registered with the psr.ie to lease/property manage) are listing the full addresses of rental properties, and a quick crosscheck against the prtb.ie website of registered private houses to let shows that they are not registered and surprise, surprise: No Rent Allowance accepted.

By not taking rent allowance the landlord is open to the house being converted to a grow house, a knocking shop or a fast food take-away.
What do you think?

Greenmachine

You have not posted anything new unfortunately. Tax avoidance is a big part of it alright.

dharma200

Most of it is pure snobbery.... Oh look , I have a little ****ty apartment that I bought in the boom, with its beko appliances and 1980 s sofa.... I am a king landlord with so much power of the little people.... Eurgh......

Tax avoidance, ignorance snobbery.... Or the I've had one bad experience with RA... Oh but the bad experiences with students and private rental tenants is forgotten about... The rental system in Ireland is hideous, gives a false ceiling on rents. Props up a racket that doesn't really exist.... The whole rental market flawed by landlords who think they are lords of the manor... Some of the experiences I've had with landlords in Ireland and despicable.... To exclude someone because they are in receipt of welfare, not on their own merits, references and circumstances , is a load of rubbish....

djimi

A lot of the problems that landlords seems to have with RA stem from past experiences; be it with the system or with tenants on RA. Its an unfair bias that means that a lot of good tenants are tarred with the same brush, but if someone has had to go months without incoming rent, or every month was a battle to get the rent out of the tenant, then the landlord is going to be wary the next time, especially considering how relatively few rights a landlord has and how very difficult it is for them to fight for their rights.

Baby01032012

Landlords as private individuals can choose who they let their property to. There is a certain element of rent supplement tenants who will not use the allowance for its designated purpose and will use it as additional income. The fact that it is paid to the tenant not landlord and fact that it can be reviewed, reduced or cut off make it very unreliable for the landlord. That's the welfare system and not the fault of the tenant. The landlord is reliant on rent for income to cover mortgage to cover insurance repairs income tax property tax etc. So landlord has to assess the risk of accepting welfare over employed individuals with their own direct guaranteed income.

hfallada

OP tax avoidance is 100% legal. It's rearranging your assets to reduce your tax liabilities. You are thinking of tax evasion which is under declaring of tax or no tax returns, which is illegal.

Most landlords don't want RA firstly as its ****ty rent. You can get more from a normal tenant who pays their rent out of their own pocket.

Secondly RA tenants are hard work. My parents had a tenant that lost his job and went onto rent allowance. We didn't receive any rent for a few months as the rent wasn't paid directly from the state to us. Plus he was a drug user and at times we needed the gardas presence to pick the rent as there was a chance he would be violent.

If your a landlord with two potential tenants. One a professional who is working and only in the apartment for a few hours a day and paying your far more than what you would get off a RA tenants. Or a RA tenants who isnt working. Paying you ****ty rent and potential serious work as they might not have job to get into the morning and have no purpose in life( no all RA tenants are like this, but there is a good few). You arent certain you will get paid this month as you dont get paid directly from the state. Who would you pick? The first one obviously.


Landlords are business people. They want as much money with as little work( but in reality its a 24/7 job). But for some reason in Ireland they are viewed as tax dodging and shady people. Landlords are treated like **** in Ireland as a majority of people can't seem to get their head around how much work it is( you are on call to break up party's 24/7) and you most likely have a mortgage.

riclad

if your Tenant is a junkie , you need to get a new tenant .
SO some landlords have one bad tenant and they give up on ra tenants,
or the ra limits are too low,when compared to the market rent in many area,s .
GROW houses , tend to in houses ,in quiet, isolated area,s
where the neighbours will not notice ,the house is empty most of the time.
ITS not be used as a normal house to live in .
rents are a civil matter, its not a garda ,s job to help you to collect rent.

ShaShaBear

hfallada wrote: »

OP tax avoidance is 100% legal. It's rearranging your assets to reduce your tax liabilities. You are thinking of tax evasion which is under declaring of tax or no tax returns, which is illegal.

Most landlords don't want RA firstly as its ****ty rent. You can get more from a normal tenant who pays their rent out of their own pocket.

Secondly RA tenants are hard work. My parents had a tenant that lost his job and went onto rent allowance. We didn't receive any rent for a few months as the rent wasn't paid directly from the state to us. Plus he was a drug user and at times we needed the gardas presence to pick the rent as there was a chance he would be violent.

If your a landlord with two potential tenants. One a professional who is working and only in the apartment for a few hours a day and paying your far more than what you would get off a RA tenants. Or a RA tenants who isnt working. Paying you ****ty rent and potential serious work as they might not have job to get into the morning and have no purpose in life( no all RA tenants are like this, but there is a good few). You arent certain you will get paid this month as you dont get paid directly from the state. Who would you pick? The first one obviously.


Landlords are business people. They want as much money with as little work( but in reality its a 24/7 job). But for some reason in Ireland they are viewed as tax dodging and shady people. Landlords are treated like **** in Ireland as a majority of people can't seem to get their head around how much work it is( you are on call to break up party's 24/7) and you most likely have a mortgage.

Firstly, if you charge a specific amount of rent for your property, you get that amount regardless of who you rent to. People on rent supplement have to pay the same amount as everyone else does.
In this day and age social welfare payments are just as secure, if not more so, than today's jobs.

You seem to have a wild notion that everyone that claims rent allowance are drug abusers with no will to live who throw raging parties all week. I assure you, we don't really have that much money. Maybe for the parties, but drugs aren't cheap :rolleyes:

My ex got kicked out of two houses - one he absolutely wrecked from throwing raves every weekend (broken windows, doors, furniture, very unhappy neighbours) and another because drug dealers started visiting the house regularly. He made a nice healthy €480 per week after tax. Very nice tenant, I must say.

You do have showings for your house right? It's pretty easy to tell if you are looking at a drug-pushing dole bum with a fondness for drink and orgies, or if you are looking at a young adult who is no longer welcome at home and just lost their first job since graduating because the company likes to take people in on trials with a lower wage and then sack them before they have to offer a permanent contract
A lot of smart landlords that know the majority of us are claiming for a means to an end will put Rent Allowance Not Accepted on the online advert, and let smart, professional and clean-cut individuals who have found themselves in short-term receipt of financial assistance approach them for negotiations. I have rented a total of 4 properties since 2010 while attending college, and all four did not allow rent allowance, but all 4 accepted it with an offered non-refundable deposit for any extra wear and tear my dog might be responsible for

athtrasna

OP you are doing exactly what you are complaining about, tarring a group of people with the same brush.

As a landlord, a reluctant one at that, I am tax compliant, prtb registered... The works. And I resent any sweeping generalisations that suggest otherwise.

Our tenants have a beautiful, well equipped property that I would love to be able to live in. As a landlord I have a right to choose who I rent to, and if I want to exclude any groups then I will. It's my prerogative.

Have had a variety of tenants, including RA but would never go down that route again after councils unilaterally decided to cut what landlords were being paid, no consultation, no appeals.

Ray Palmer

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Firstly, if you charge a specific amount of rent for your property, you get that amount regardless of who you rent to. People on rent supplement have to pay the same amount as everyone else does.
In this day and age social welfare payments are just as secure, if not more so, than today's jobs.

The fact they cut RA doesn't support what you said. An RA tenant cannot rent properties at certain levels above the RA cut off also proving your claim is wrong.

I don't accept RA from any new tenants due to experience and it has nothing to do with tax evasion. I would love to see everybody evading tax prosecuted. Rents will of course have to go up if it turns out to be a large portion of rental properties. It is very irritating know you are paying all your taxes and the guy beside me is not and undercutting rent of my property.

Reason not to take RA
1) The tenant refuses to take responsibility or do much for any errors with their claim
2) They require more forms to be filled out regularly for other claims
3) A track record of not taking care of the place (8 out 11 RA, the 3 did not stay past 6 months see point 1 for reason)
4) Sudden changes to rates expecting a drop in rent as a result.
5) General demeanour of those coming to look at a property with RA
6) People on RA ringing about property where you specified no RA
7) Cashing RA cheques and not paying rent

I am sure some LL are not taking RA for tax reasons but it is a big stretch to say all the people with PRTB registered don't take RA due to tax reason as it simply doesn't make sense!

ShaShaBear

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The fact they cut RA doesn't support what you said. An RA tenant cannot rent properties at certain levels above the RA cut off also proving your claim is wrong.

I don't accept RA from any new tenants due to experience and it has nothing to do with tax evasion. I would love to see everybody evading tax prosecuted. Rents will of course have to go up if it turns out to be a large portion of rental properties. It is very irritating know you are paying all your taxes and the guy beside me is not and undercutting rent of my property.

Reason not to take RA
1) The tenant refuses to take responsibility or do much for any errors with their claim
2) They require more forms to be filled out regularly for other claims
3) A track record of not taking care of the place (8 out 11 RA, the 3 did not stay past 6 months see point 1 for reason)
4) Sudden changes to rates expecting a drop in rent as a result.
5) General demeanour of those coming to look at a property with RA
6) People on RA ringing about property where you specified no RA
7) Cashing RA cheques and not paying rent

I am sure some LL are not taking RA for tax reasons but it is a big stretch to say all the people with PRTB registered don't take RA due to tax reason as it simply doesn't make sense!

Well firstly, wages and hours get cut too. Regularly. It happens. Secondly, as I said in my original post (and thought I stated quite clearly) if you are charging a certain amount of rent for a property, both a working and social welfare tenant will have to pay the same amount. Obviously if you charge above the rent allowance limit, they can't even apply so that is pretty much moot. But if it is within the limits, and a claiming tenant rents it, they have to hand over exactly the same amount of rent as the working tenant does.

I'll not even comment on your points for not accepting rent allowance, as I am someone who had to avail of it and can honestly say I don't fit any of your descriptions. But if you are snide about someone even calling you to chance your arm, then you can't be a very pleasant person to deal with.

Ray Palmer

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well firstly, wages and hours get cut too. Regularly. It happens. Secondly, as I said in my original post (and thought I stated quite clearly) if you are charging a certain amount of rent for a property, both a working and social welfare tenant will have to pay the same amount. Obviously if you charge above the rent allowance limit, they can't even apply so that is pretty much moot. But if it is within the limits, and a claiming tenant rents it, they have to hand over exactly the same amount of rent as the working tenant does.

I'll not even comment on your points for not accepting rent allowance, as I am someone who had to avail of it and can honestly say I don't fit any of your descriptions. But if you are snide about someone even calling you to chance your arm, then you can't be a very pleasant person to deal with.

Wages go down while you are renting you don't expect the rent to be reduced. on RA the tenants expected the rent to come down and were encouraged to try this. BIG difference and a show RA is not reliable plus it can suddenly be withdrawn due to a claimant lying.

Just because you have never done as I have experience RA tenants doing this. What is your experience of dealing with RA tenants?

If somebody rings me after expressing clearly that I will not accept RA who is wasting who's time? There was a guy on here before saying he was ringing up LLs and asking them why they wouldn't take RA. If you can't understand an ad or chose to waste my time not seeing why I am the one at fault.

The_Conductor

I would direct everyone's attention to the Forum's Charter.
I'll paraphrase- if you disagree with what another member posts- refute the post, without attacking the poster. Any more personal snipping at one another will result in bans. You have been warned.

Scortho

Is there anything to stop (other than market forces) a landlord asking 2-3 months as a deposit?

A few of my friends are looking for accommodation at the moment but because they're students the landlord was looking for 2 months deposit.
They didn't go with it in the end, but I can see where the landlord was coming from, considering the state a lot if students leave houses in.
If its allowed, its a great way to ensure that the tenant will pay (or increases the chances), without refusing ra tenants.

The_Conductor

Scortho wrote: »

Is there anything to stop (other than market forces) a landlord asking 2-3 months as a deposit?

A few of my friends are looking for accommodation at the moment but because they're students the landlord was looking for 2 months deposit.
They didn't go with it in the end, but I can see where the landlord was coming from, considering the state a lot if students leave houses in.
If its allowed, its a great way to ensure that the tenant will pay (or increases the chances), without refusing ra tenants.

2 or 3 months rent as a deposit is pretty standard in a lot of countries- the single month, and letting property furnished, are both very much Irish/UK things.

odds_on

Just market forces that deem one month's rent as sufficient. In the UK, the norm, I believe, is more than 1 month's rent - 1.5 or 2 x the rent.

riclad

90 PER cent of ads i see are over rent allowance levels,
at least in dublin .
or ad says will suit professionals,= no ra clients
A person can be well dressed ,looks ok,
and still use drugs or be a bad tenant ,
its hard to tell much in a 10 minute interview .

Alot of landlords rent a house to single mothers on ra,
and rents are much cheaper outside dublin.
Coming up with 2 months rent shows a certain level of responsibilty.

_reznik

Hey guys

I'm just wondering is I am in any way entitled to Rent Supplement.

I'm a mature student studying in IT Tralee and currently getting the BTEA of 188 euro per week. I'm staying in Kings Court Apartments. I asked at reception about the Rent Supplement but I didn't get a very clear answer. The woman said something to me about them not accepting the Rent Supplement as they are a management company.

So I'm really not sure if I'm entitled or not. Could anyone help clear this up for me?

Ray Palmer

_reznik wrote: »

Hey guys

I'm just wondering is I am in any way entitled to Rent Supplement.

I'm a mature student studying in IT Tralee and currently getting the BTEA of 188 euro per week. I'm staying in Kings Court Apartments. I asked at reception about the Rent Supplement but I didn't get a very clear answer. The woman said something to me about them not accepting the Rent Supplement as they are a management company.

So I'm really not sure if I'm entitled or not. Could anyone help clear this up for me?

You should go to the welfare section for your answer. A management company can accept RA they may simply choose not to.

_reznik

Cheers Ray I'll try the welfare section.

Thanks again