Is there really anyone who still believes.......

martinedwards

that there are none of any other denomination in Heaven?

Our church (united C of I/ methodist) has really close relations with Several RC churches.... St Oliver Plunkett & the Monastary in Rostrevor mainly... and we know we have different ways of doing stuff, but we're all hgappy that we'll carry on the banter in heaven.

I was shocked last night to hear one of our senior ladies saying that one of her pals (baptist) pastor says that there are no RC Christians, and that there will be no RCs in Heaven.

I was shocked and horrified that this rubbish still goes on.

is there any life in this on the RC side?

Geomy

I think the RC with all their golden thrones, property, material wealth, and materialism is fast tracking the hierarchy or people who are at the top to hell....

The RC is supposedly the opposite to humility and humbleness. ...

homer911

I have only heard those comments from right wing american "evangelical" christians. I doubt they have ever spoken to anyone of the RC faith. Its certainly not my experience

fleet

Forgive my ignorance, for it is that, but surely if you sign up for a faith based belief then it's a case of all or nothing.
So if the book says that only those of this church are saved then why should it be any more of a fib than anything else the book states?
To cherry pick beliefs is surely not to believe?

smacl

fleet wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, for it is that, but surely if you sign up for a faith based belief then it's a case of all or nothing.
So if the book says that only those of this church are saved then why should it be any more of a fib than anything else the book states?
To cherry pick beliefs is surely not to believe?

Surely this depends on what you sign up to. I know plenty of very moderate christians who are neither fundamentalist nor absolutist but still very grounded in their faith. Taking an overtly dogmatic school of thought and saying that christians that don't follow that school of thought are cherry pickers is misrepresentative of the larger religion. While as an atheist, I don't agree with the larger body of christian doctrine, I believe it is a mistake to label them all as bible bashers.

lmaopml

martinedwards wrote: »

that there are none of any other denomination in Heaven?

Our church (united C of I/ methodist) has really close relations with Several RC churches.... St Oliver Plunkett & the Monastary in Rostrevor mainly... and we know we have different ways of doing stuff, but we're all hgappy that we'll carry on the banter in heaven.

I was shocked last night to hear one of our senior ladies saying that one of her pals (baptist) pastor says that there are no RC Christians, and that there will be no RCs in Heaven.

I was shocked and horrified that this rubbish still goes on.

is there any life in this on the RC side?

I haven't come across it Martin, but that's not to say that there aren't people who may be bitter or sarky - I don't believe that all Baptists think the way this pastor does either, in fact I'd say we have a lot in common, more than we think sometimes. We Catholics and the Baptists

I think most passionate Christians take people as they find them - yes sometimes talking about theological differences can get heated, but imo on this forum there is a modicum of respect too. It's a genuine privilege to be able to speak with other Christians and it's an eyeopener too in many ways to try to understand each other and indeed to banish some good old fashioned prejudices and largely see that sometimes we're saying the same things, just in a different way, and everybody is only human and finding their way - People are just people at the end of the day, most are nice.

Peregrinus

I think you can identify (broadly) three positions on this:

1. Only real Christians can be saved, “real’ Christians being Christians who belong to the denomination of the speaker, or (sometimes) to another denomination which shares its principal characteristics. It’s common - but not universal - for people in this group to identify Catholics as not “real” Christians, and indeed they sometimes use the terms “Catholic” and “Christian” in opposition to one another. In the interests of balance I should say that there is also a tradition within Catholicism which holds, if not that non-Catholics cannot be saved, at least that it is unlikely that they will be saved.

2. Only baptised people can be saved. Not all baptised people are necessarily saved but, among the baptised, the question of who is saved and who is not is left to the judgment of God.

3. Anyone, potentially, can be saved. While baptism is the way to salvation that has been revealed to us, the grace and mercy of God cannot be confined and it is not for us to limit God’s salvific power.

In quite a few denominations, you can find people holding any of these positions. An “exclusivist” position like no. 1 above used to be quite common in Catholicism, but not any more. Official Catholic church teaching is explicitly along the lines of no. 3 above. That’s not to say that there aren’t still individual Catholics who hold to something like position no. 1, though.

hinault

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think you can identify (broadly) three positions on this:

1. Only real Christians can be saved, “real’ Christians being Christians who belong to the denomination of the speaker, or (sometimes) to another denomination which shares its principal characteristics. It’s common - but not universal - for people in this group to identify Catholics as not “real” Christians, and indeed they sometimes use the terms “Catholic” and “Christian” in opposition to one another. In the interests of balance I should say that there is also a tradition within Catholicism which holds, if not that non-Catholics cannot be saved, at least that it is unlikely that they will be saved.

2. Only baptised people can be saved. Not all baptised people are necessarily saved but, among the baptised, the question of who is saved and who is not is left to the judgment of God.

3. Anyone, potentially, can be saved. While baptism is the way to salvation that has been revealed to us, the grace and mercy of God cannot be confined and it is not for us to limit God’s salvific power.

In quite a few denominations, you can find people holding any of these positions. An “exclusivist” position like no. 1 above used to be quite common in Catholicism, but not any more. Official Catholic church teaching is explicitly along the lines of no. 3 above. That’s not to say that there aren’t still individual Catholics who hold to something like position no. 1, though.

On point 2, in Catholicism there are three ways in which one can be baptised.

Baptism by water.
Baptism by blood (through martyrdom).
Baptism by desire (where one desired to be baptised but has not formally been baptised in to the Church).

The Catechism teaches that God's salvation may be open to people who have no direct knowledge of Christ and His teaching but who lead an exemplary life.

martinedwards

hinault wrote: »

The Catechism teaches that God's salvation may be open to people who have no direct knowledge of Christ and His teaching but who lead an exemplary life.

that's where the evangelicals have the problem I guess.

when I was a kid, in the 70s, RCS prayed to Mary and all the saints and Jesus was just a statue so they were all Idolaters and going straight to hell.

I heard this preached many times.

I thanks God that I've met a load of really Christian RCs and that the idiots that were preaching that rubbish are all now either retired or dead and not spreading their lies any more.

hinault

martinedwards wrote: »

that's where the evangelicals have the problem I guess.

when I was a kid, in the 70s, RCS prayed to Mary and all the saints and Jesus was just a statue so they were all Idolaters and going straight to hell.

I heard this preached many times.

I thanks God that I've met a load of really Christian RCs and that the idiots that were preaching that rubbish are all now either retired or dead and not spreading their lies any more.

The issue here is that Evangelicals and other protestant denominations cannot claim to have no knowledge of Christianity or Jesus Christ, unlike those who have absolutely no knowledge of Jesus Christ or His Church.

In other words and I will try to put this as charitably as I can, those who are protestants/evangelicals should know better and conform fully to what the Catechism teaches for those who claim to follow Jesus Christ teaching.

We cannot be certain as to the extent of God's salvation.
What we do know, through the Catechism, is the teaching given to us as to how to try to achieve salvation.

Revolver Ireland

hinault wrote: »

The issue here is that Evangelicals and other protestant denominations cannot claim to have no knowledge of Christianity or Jesus Christ, unlike those who have absolutely no knowledge of Jesus Christ or His Church.

In other words and I will try to put this as charitably as I can, those who are protestants/evangelicals should know better and conform fully to what the Catechism teaches for those who claim to follow Jesus Christ teaching.

We cannot be certain as to the extent of God's salvation.
What we do know, through the Catechism, is the teaching given to us as to how to try to achieve salvation.

Thats the common RC POV that I've come across from more dedicated RC's tbh. A bit of a, 'We don't think you're lost, but we kinda do'. Its kind of exclusive, but without the conviction to stand by it being exclusive. It comes across as a bit double speaky to me.

My own position, is that Christians are throughout the world of Christendom, and by their fruits they will be known. I believe certain denominations, especially the ones that demand obedience to a governing group/person make it harder to be a Christian in the fullest sense.

hinault

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

Thats the common RC POV that I've come across from more dedicated RC's tbh. A bit of a, 'We don't think you're lost, but we kinda do'. Its kind of exclusive, but without the conviction to stand by it being exclusive. It comes across as a bit double speaky to me.

There is no double speak.

The Catechism can only describe the faith and the behaviour required to be in compliance with that faith. The Catechism is emphatic with regard to what each Catholic is required to comply with.

The Catechism can only second guess how God may judge non-Catholics.

Therefore I fail to see where the charge of "double speak" applies.

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

My own position, is that Christians are throughout the world of Christendom, and by their fruits they will be known. I believe certain denominations, especially the ones that demand obedience to a governing group/person make it harder to be a Christian in the fullest sense.

:rolleyes:

SoulandForm

martinedwards wrote: »

that there are none of any other denomination in Heaven?

Our church (united C of I/ methodist) has really close relations with Several RC churches.... St Oliver Plunkett & the Monastary in Rostrevor mainly... and we know we have different ways of doing stuff, but we're all hgappy that we'll carry on the banter in heaven.

I was shocked last night to hear one of our senior ladies saying that one of her pals (baptist) pastor says that there are no RC Christians, and that there will be no RCs in Heaven.

I was shocked and horrified that this rubbish still goes on.

is there any life in this on the RC side?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

Quite an interesting figure but he ended up ex-communicated by the RCC.

StudentDad

When I turned 17 - quite a while ago now - I came to the conclusion that no one 'organised' religion has the monopoly on 'heaven.'

Belief in God or the Giant Spaghetti Monster is purely a personal matter and it isn't for any group flying any religious banner to say they hold the keys to the afterlife or worse try to impose that belief on society as a whole.

SD

georgieporgy

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

Quite an interesting figure but he ended up ex-communicated by the RCC.

the excommunication was lifted 20 years later so he ended his days reconciled with the Church.

gaynorvader

As long as they accept Jesus into their hearts they will be saved and their sins forgiven. Isn't that correct? So no matter the denomination of Christianity, they should be good.

santing

martinedwards wrote: »

Is there really anyone who still believes.......that there are none of any other denomination in Heaven?

I would firmly believe that there are no denominations in Heaven ... so the above statement doesn't go far enough.
Now there are many denominations that make it very hard for you to go to Heaven, incl. the RC denomination

gaynorvader

Did posts get deleted? Or am I going mad? I thought there were a couple of posts after mine.

Turtwig

gaynorvader wrote: »

Did posts get deleted? Or am I going mad? I thought there were a couple of posts after mine.

Yeah, maybe in my brighter moments I posted a post here which was meant for a different thread in an entirely different forum!

Nope .
>.>
<.<
>.>

brian_t

Jernal wrote: »

Yeah, maybe in my brighter moments I posted a post here which was meant for a different thread in an entirely different forum!

Nope .
>.>
<.<
>.>

I had assumed that you were responding to the post about the ex-communication of Leonard Feeney on page 1 of this thread. :pac:

leonil7

There are no denominations in heaven. Origins are acknowledge however from all types of races, from all corners of the the earth. You can obviously conclude that Christianity or the christians in heaven is not exclusive or particular of race or color or language.

Rev 7:9 " After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, "

antiskeptic

leonil7 wrote: »

There are no denominations in heaven. Origins are acknowledge however from all types of races, from all corners of the the earth. You can obviously conclude that Christianity or the christians in heaven is not exclusive or particular of race or color or language.

Rev 7:9 " After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, "

Indeed. I wonder how those who demand a person "accept Christ into their hearts" or "must belong to this or that church" in order that they be saved can reconcile the father of faith being saved when he was neither of the above (or their ilk)

santing

antiskeptic wrote: »

Indeed. I wonder how those who demand a person "accept Christ into their hearts" or "must belong to this or that church" in order that they be saved can reconcile the father of faith being saved when he was neither of the above (or their ilk)

The Father of Faith (who is that?)

Abraham your father rejoiced that he would see my [Jesus] day, and he saw it and was glad." (Joh 8:56)

Moses considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. (Heb 11:26)

leonil7

"Faith" is the tie that binds the people of god from genesis until revelation. and that is not a spurious definition of faith. it is faith in the living god of the bible.

there is no such thing as membership salvation. that is the error of the jews, which have been clearly corrected by Paul.