Pregnant Drinking Friend

LegacyUser

Hi all
I need to post anomynous here. Ill try keep it short without giving away too many details.
Basically my friend is an alcoholic. I had nt seen her for along time but after meeting her over the last year it is quiet obvious she has a serious drink problem. She already has a child and it is well known that many people have concerns for this child on account of her drinking. This woman has just found out recently she is pregnant again. She had told me she was going to stop drinking before she found out as I had tried to make her see that she was drinking too much but unfortunately she hasn't. I don't know if she is still drinking as much but she is definitely still drinking. I have been getting smell s of alchohol of her early in the day and she was saying she was only have one with a friend at lunch or whatever but I really don't believe her as I know her history.
Im really upset over this and don't know what to do. She keeps saying its just the one or two. What can I do to make her see this is wrong and if she cant stop drinking while she is pregnant there is a problem. Again I mention this person had a serious drink problem before coming pregnant so im worried that this just cant stop or reduce to one or two drinks can it?

The_Conductor

Its a hard one.
I've seen new born children in hospital with foetal alcohol syndrome, when I was there with our two.
I know she won't forgive you- but I genuinely think for the sake of both her current child, and her future child- you have to get some help for her (whether she wants it or not). Its not the case that she is going to seek help herself, and she is actively lying to you- I don't know who you should contact- but I think the local public health nurse, would be at very least the first port of call (and very probably child services for her current child).

This is the sort of case- where whatever you do, you're not going to be thanked. In the long run- you do owe it to the children to give them the best possible chance you can. Maybe years down the line they will recognise what you did and thank you for it, maybe not.

Damned if you do- and doubly damned if you don't. Get her help- willingly or unwillingly- and don't procrastinate about it- the fate of her new pregnancy is at stake- as is the life and opportunities for her current child.

Lovely Bloke

it's none of your business

heretochat

Bit short on what I would consider an essential detail - does this person have a partner? Is the father of her child (ren) in her life?

If yes, well then I think the ultimate responsibiity for getting help rests with her partner.

You can be there to support her but the main responsibility must lie with her partner (if she has one)

username123

There is nothing you can do except express yourself to her. We do not and should not have a measure of control over pregnant women in this country that would allow the medical community to lock her up for her unborn child's safety.

It is not your responsibility to crusade for this woman's unborn child either. While your concern is understandable, adults have to take responsibility for their own bodies, behaviours and pregnancies.

Lux23

If you know her partner or even close family members bring it up with them. But other than that she's an adult woman and I am pretty sure she can't be hospitalised for drinking while pregnant.

kylith

All you can do is tell her that you won't socialise with someone who drinks while pregnant, then cut off contact. It might be the wake up call she needs or she may barely notice.

It's really not your business. There is nothing that can be done to force her to stop drinking if she doesn't want to.

LegacyUser

heretochat wrote: »

Bit short on what I would consider an essential detail - does this person have a partner? Is the father of her child (ren) in her life?

If yes, well then I think the ultimate responsibiity for getting help rests with her partner.

You can be there to support her but the main responsibility must lie with her partner (if she has one)

That's the problem. (Thanks for your reply)
I don't know if he knows the extent of it. I said it to her about the drinking and it did not go down well and she said her partner is angry with me for saying it. I cant figure out if this is part of the alcoholic / manipulation dynamic that goes on (I am well aware of it from a family member) basically I don't know if she said that so I wont speak to him. He is away at the moment and his family are very worried they are afraid if they say it to him there will be a fall out.
Its just awful to sit back and see yet at the same time you cant control other people?

LegacyUser

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

it's none of your business

Yes I know it is not my business. If someone was being raped at the side of the road it would nt be my business but I would still like to think I would do something about it. When something is happening in front of your face it becomes your business even if you don't like it. I m well aware it is not my business but I think that kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with society today !

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the comments.
I know its not my business as people were saying its just hard when you see it. i don't think people realise the extent of the drinking but i cant give away too many details here in case someone sees it . I l try to talk to her that's all i can do

Big Bag of Chips

So you can see it, her partner's family can see it, but you think he can't see it?

She's lying to you. He probably hasn't said anything about you. Alcoholics lie. They lie to everyone to try make life easier for themselves.

At the end of the day you have no control over her drinking. You can't stop her. You can't make her cut down. You can't make her see what she is doing is harmful. She needs to figure all that out herself.

To be honest, I think it is up to her partner. He's in a position to speak to her GP. He's in a position to go to her maternity appointments and talk to the midwife/consultant.

Much as you want to help you are not really in a position to help, she won't listen to you... Or will just tell you what you want to hear and get better at hiding it from you.

Maybe you should look up your local Al-Anon meeting. It is a group for people who are living with or affected by an alcoholic in their life.

Edit: OP - did you post about this friend a while back? Some of the details, seem familiar. If not I apologise, but if you did surely you must see that if you could't help her then, you can't help her now. It is awful that she is risking her unborn baby's life, and also that she is already giving her child a miserable childhood - but you can't save her.

If you want you could try ring the HSE and report her. Tell them she is pregnant. She may be assigned a social worker and she may be given help (if she wants it) But I wouldn't hold out much hope of her getting help quick. But at least you would have "done something"??

username123

Whattosay wrote: »

Yes I know it is not my business. If someone was being raped at the side of the road it would nt be my business but I would still like to think I would do something about it. When something is happening in front of your face it becomes your business even if you don't like it. I m well aware it is not my business but I think that kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with society today !

The difference here is the rape victim is not choosing to be raped but the alcoholic is choosing to drink. That's why you can't do anything, this person is exercising their own free will.

LegacyUser

username123 wrote: »

The difference here is the rape victim is not choosing to be raped but the alcoholic is choosing to drink. That's why you can't do anything, this person is exercising their own free will.

Is the unborn child choosing to be downed in alcohol or choosing to be born with foetal alcohol syndrome?

pwurple

username123 wrote: »

The difference here is the rape victim is not choosing to be raped but the alcoholic is choosing to drink. That's why you can't do anything, this person is exercising their own free will.

I'd say the comparison was more towards the baby being the victim here.

Difficult one OP. does she drink in secret or in public. You say you smell it, but didn't see her?

Can you, her friends or family basically watch over her?

Big Bag of Chips

OP, there's no point in getting narky towards posters here. You came here looking for advice, because you are at a loss of what to do. The reason you are at a loss is because you know, that realistically there's not a whole lot you CAN do.

Getting snappy with people who are taking time out of their day to try offer you advice or support, will only turn people off replying to you.

username123

Whattosay? wrote: »

Is the unborn child choosing to be downed in alcohol or choosing to be born with foetal alcohol syndrome?

Someone elses unborn child is none of your business.

Ive extensive experience with alcoholism unfortunately and although I can see why its a difficult one to stand back from, I also know that adults have to be responsible for their own behaviour.

Do you also monitor the diets, exercise and smoking habits of your friends who are pregnant? Its not your business.

Although considering that she has a living child perhaps efforts would be better concentrated on alerting social services for that situation?

LegacyUser

pwurple wrote: »

I'd say the comparison was more towards the baby being the victim here.

Difficult one OP. does she drink in secret or in public. You say you smell it, but didn't see her?

Can you, her friends or family basically watch over her?

Family don't talk to her over her problem prior to getting pregnant. Friends are almost detached for the same reason. She is drinking in secret since she is pregnant there is a constant smell of drink and she appears drunk. Thank you for your reply.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, there's no point in getting narky towards posters here. You came here looking for advice, because you are at a loss of what to do. The reason you are at a loss is because you know, that realistically there's not a whole lot you CAN do.

Getting snappy with people who are taking time out of their day to try offer you advice or support, will only turn people off replying to you.

Apologies if it came across as being snappy. I didn't mean for it to sound like that at all. Obviously it is the child I am worried about. Someone asked if I monitor other peoples diets , etc while pregnant I certainly do not I am not interested in what pregnant people do I have other friend s that have a couple of glasses of wine while pregnant and its not my business. This is an entirely different situation with a serious alcoholic that has been admitted before to no use!

emmabrighton

This is so sad. I am afraid to say that if she is drinking and appears drunk then this baby will already suffer the effects of FAS. The greatest amount of harm done to a fetus by ingesting alcohol occurs in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. Poor little baby.

Also, as an alcoholic, this woman has lost her ability to say no to drink. She physically cannot stop drinking. Or so it was with family members I know. This woman needs to reach rock bottom before she can stop. My uncle stopped drinking when he was caught drink driving. Maybe this woman needs a strong wake up call.

If this woman is the child's primary care giver, then in the best interest of the family, you should inform the local public health nurse or child services.

You are acting in the best interest of your friend. No woman would willingly destroy the life of her children either through a depressing childhood or handicapping them intellectually through intoxication.

Your sober friend will be grateful you ratted out her alcoholic self

In a recent survey on domestic abuse, alcohol was named as a trigger for violence in one in three of the most severe cases.
Another recent survey on attitudes to domestic abuse asked people the reasons for not reporting domestic abuse. Eight out of 10 of those questioned said they thought they should not get involved in other people’s business, while three out of four said it might mean the children being taken away from the family.

100000 Children live with alcoholic parents

Queen-Mise

OP - contact the child protection social workers, firstly about the child with the mother, and secondly for when this baby is born. Contact anonymously - tell them exactly what is happening, and follow up with more anonymous phone calls if she is telling lies.

I have a friend at the moment whose ex is drinking & more, and has basically been told by the social workers that when the child is born, it will be going straight into his care. I hope to fcuk the child won't have been too damaged in the womb. I have seen the worst and it ain't pretty.

One of my distance cousins gave birth to a child with FAS. It was horrific. The child had little or no developed internal organs. Had practically zero brain function. At two years of age, the child still couldn't smile, was practically brain dead. The baby died before 24 months, weighing 11lbs.
The mother was a raving alcoholic and was drinking two bottles of spirits a day all through the pregnancy.

When I lived in England when I was young, I knew another girl, who drank and did every drug known to man whilst pregnant and breastfeeding. I remember her saying that she knew what drugs she had taken by the child's reaction a number of hours later i.e. coke/crack the baby would be hyper, heroin/skunk the child would be sleepy. We were talking about a new born baby.
It is now when looking back do I realise how horrific it was.

Drinking & drugging in pregnancy is horrific - Report, report and report.

emmabrighton

My baby spent time in the NICU when he was born and for a short time there was a baby in a cot beside him. The other baby was the child of a drug addict. He was big enough to be put in a cot and not an incubator. It broke my heart to sit beside him and not give him any sort of love. Obviously cuddling other peoples babies is not allowed. His mother did not come into see him once. From what I overheard she bolted the moment the baby was born. The poor little boy lay in the cot with no mother to give him love. He couldn't close his eyes, he was blind. That is all you really could tell from his outward appearance. The baby did end up being taken away one day to go to a hospice. I saw the name of the hospice on the uniform. He was going somewhere to wait to die. That poor little boy could have been anything instead he died. All thanks to addiction. Of course the mother could have been born into alcohol/drugs also so it was a sad, terrible cycle.

Anyway, I know this isn't really advice to you but I think I am trying to assert more that you really should contact the authorities for both the children.

Chara1001

Oh my god emmabrighton that's heartbreaking....

What an awful story...i'm welling up as i write this...

Op, i can see both sides here. But i'm not sure what to advise. My gut tells me to contact someone but my head tells my that you can't be the pregnancy police either. I just don't know.

I have a baby, and i didn't find out that i was pregnant until very late. It was an absolute shock- there were no signs. So when I found out, i freaked out and confessed to the doc that i was seriously worried about nights out that i had had. I had celebrated engagements, weddings, birthdays, so there had been a fair amount of alcohol -and some smoking involved. I was in a heap thinking about damage that could have been done to the baby, as the first trimester is when the damage is done.

The doctor told me she wasn't worried, that addiction is the problem, not sporadic nights (obviously i gave up alcohol IMMEDIATELY) But it wasn't until the baby was born that i could relax. He was fine.

This probably doesn't help you at all but you're in a very morally difficult situation. I wanted to wish you luck with whatever you decide, for what its worth, i'm probably leaning towards telling someone.

Big Bag of Chips

There's also a very good chance that her doctor, or midwife, or consultant, or all of them will have noticed she smells of drink or is drunk at appointments.

They are trained to notice these things.

I honestly think as a friend there's not a whole lot you can do during her pregnancy, except maybe talk to her partner.

You can however report her to the HSE for neglect of her son... Although again, there's a chance his school is already on the case.

I'm not saying you should sit back and do nothing. You shouldn't assume others will step forward. But neither should you assume you are the only one who notices something is not right.

Czarcasm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, there's no point in getting narky towards posters here. You came here looking for advice, because you are at a loss of what to do. The reason you are at a loss is because you know, that realistically there's not a whole lot you CAN do.

Getting snappy with people who are taking time out of their day to try offer you advice or support, will only turn people off replying to you.

In fairness BBOC, posters do indeed post here looking for advice, but I don't think it was the OP was the person who got snappy at all.

Is this the standard of advice that shall now be acceptable in the Personal Issues forum-

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

it's none of your business

Real helpful.


On topic- OP you can find contact details for your local social worker in your area here-

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/ChildrenandFamilyServices/childrenfirst/socialworkers/

There may not be much you can do directly for this person, but a social worker will be able to help her get the support she needs for herself and the child she has already and the baby she has on the way.

You shouldn't be made to feel bad OP for giving a shìt about another human being.

Neyite

Czarcasm, if you have a problem with a post, report it, and let a mod deal with it. The post you referenced is NOT acceptable standard for PI or RI as a stand alone the way you have quoted, however it is advice, though succinct, and addresses the P's issue.

SusieBlue

Definitely contact the HSE and social services about the child she already has and mention her excessive drinking while pregnant when you do so.

Does she drive? Is there a chance she could be drink driving? If so, get onto the guards. All the more reason for social services to look into it if she's been caught drink driving.

People like that make me sick. I know alcoholism is an illness but when you are pregnant, it isn't all about you any more. Her partner is as bad for enabling her and letting her away with it. Has he no concern for the welfare of either of his children?

I would report anonymously ASAP. If nothing else you are making them aware of the situation and God forbid anything happened, your conscience will be clear as you tried to do something.

No child deserves to be brought up like that. That unborn child has no voice, you need to be his voice. Contact the HSE and report her to everyone you possibly can.

You may lose a friend, but you will save a child from potentially life threatening foetal alcohol syndrome.