Anyone know anything about this "Seanad reform petition"?

HatoftheRabbit

Or the people proposing it? It's been circulating around Twitter (tweeted by Noel Whelan et al.) and has picked up 100 signatures so far.
Looks like it's a group called "Future Matters" are behind it too. Anyone know anything about them, aside from what's on their website?

An Coilean

Its an attempt to counter the Governments claim that there will be no reform if the referendum is not passed, Future Matters want to hand the petition to the Government before the referendum to show that No voters dont want to keep the status quo but want a reformed seanad.

goose2005

HatoftheRabbit wrote: »

Or the people proposing it? It's been circulating around Twitter (tweeted by Noel Whelan et al.) and has picked up 100 signatures so far.
Looks like it's a group called "Future Matters" are behind it too. Anyone know anything about them, aside from what's on their website?

Consensus seems to be that it's an Ógra Fianna Fail thing.

HatoftheRabbit

goose2005 wrote: »

Consensus seems to be that it's an Ógra Fianna Fail thing.

Consensus among who...? The website doesn't have any political party logos on it. Would have thought FF/OFF would be running their own campaign anyway...

An Coilean

HatoftheRabbit wrote: »

Consensus among who...? The website doesn't have any political party logos on it. Would have thought FF/OFF would be running their own campaign anyway...

There are a few Ógra FF people involved in it, plenty of others with no connection to Ógra FF involved to.

View

An Coilean wrote: »

Its an attempt to counter the Governments claim that there will be no reform if the referendum is not passed,

It is entirely up to the Government or the Oireachtas whether or not there'll be reform in that case. If they say no reform that means no reform until at least the next election unless they change their minds. In practise no one is likely to revisit this issue for at least a decade as no one has rushed to reform the Seanad ever.

An Coilean

View wrote: »

It is entirely up to the Government or the Oireachtas whether or not there'll be reform in that case. If they say no reform that means no reform until at least the next election unless they change their minds. In practise no one is likely to revisit this issue for at least a decade as no one has rushed to reform the Seanad ever.

For me personally my prefered outcome is a reformed Seanad. The only hope of getting that is by rejecting the proposal to abolish it.

It may well be the case that the government will not want to reform the Seanad if they are defeated in the referendum, but governments do not always get their own way. If the Seanad is retained you can be sure there will be a national campaign to have it reformed, if it is retained there is a chance, and I believe a very good chance that it will be reformed, if it is abolished it will never be reformed to play the role it could in the governance of this country and personally I think that would be a terrible wasted oppertunity.

Fear of no reform is not a valid reason to accept a bad reform.

View

An Coilean wrote: »

For me personally my prefered outcome is a reformed Seanad. The only hope of getting that is by rejecting the proposal to abolish it.

The Free State Senate was abolished in 1936, yet a "new improved" Seanad came into existence a year later.

As such abolition does not preclude the creation of a "newer more improved" Seanad should anyone actually think of a coherent argument for such a body.

An Coilean wrote: »

It may well be the case that the government will not want to reform the Seanad if they are defeated in the referendum, but governments do not always get their own way. If the Seanad is retained you can be sure there will be a national campaign to have it reformed,

You think so?

If there is such public demand for reform where has it been for the last 70 years?

I'd guess the Communist party of Ireland would get a higher turnout at one of their rallies than a public Seanad reform campaign.

An Coilean wrote: »

Fear of no reform is not a valid reason to accept a bad reform.

It isn't "fear of no reform" rather my approach is different.

Suppose we had no Seanad as it was abolished 20 years ago. Would you vote to create a body based on the Seanad's current set-up if presented with the chance?

I wouldn't and even if I personally had a "tabula rasa" to create such a body, I find myself asking the question why would I?

Good loser

An Coilean wrote: »

For me personally my prefered outcome is a reformed Seanad. The only hope of getting that is by rejecting the proposal to abolish it.

It may well be the case that the government will not want to reform the Seanad if they are defeated in the referendum, but governments do not always get their own way. If the Seanad is retained you can be sure there will be a national campaign to have it reformed, if it is retained there is a chance, and I believe a very good chance that it will be reformed, if it is abolished it will never be reformed to play the role it could in the governance of this country and personally I think that would be a terrible wasted oppertunity.

Fear of no reform is not a valid reason to accept a bad reform.

The political 'reform' being proposed is the abolition of the Senate. I'm all for that.

golfball37

Noel Whelan is or certainly was a senior member of FF.