hypothetical question.Will the possible new changes in tax change planning decisions

yoloc

Ive put my own house on the market and will be hoping to clear my debt's and hopefully have enough to build a 13x7m 2 bed bungalow and put another 2 or 3 rooms in the attic a decade later. Another reason for the sale is that i also want a better energy efficient home than the house we have now.

Its got me thinking now about this new property tax and how it would effect my planning. Would the planners refuse it by thinking ill be submitting the planning for a 2 bed, yet still go ahead and put the 3 rooms in the attic and just pay the tax for a 2 bed.

Now i know this is a hypothetical question seeing as the property tax hasn't been changed to the liveable floor space yet rather than the value of the home, but it's one i thought id ask seeing as it could change my decision about what ill be doing if my house sell's in the coming year's.

I already have the perfect house designed for us(still need's a heating system choice though) with the 2 bedroom's down stair's/ceiling height for the attic but it's been on my mind just to submit the 5 bed plan's at the planning stage and hopefully get away with paying the tax for a 2 bed seeing at's what we'll be living in.

martinn123

Your question assumes we have joined up thinking between the various arms of the State

Do Ministers, who set Taxation policy, Revenue who collect the Tax, and planning officials in Local Govt, all work in unison.

I have seen no evidence to think that.

The only common factor is that they all get Paid from the Public purse.

Sounds like a good plan by the way, I did that in 2000, and have never regretted my decision.

sydthebeat

There are no plans to link 'property tax' to house size.
So far plans are only to link it to house value.

So that being said, if youve a two bed house in a rural area and its assume to be worth €120K youll pay tax according to the band it falls into. If you convert the attic and it becomes a 4 bed house and its worth €175K, then youll probably be in the next tax band and pay accordingly.

My own opinion, planners dont and wont give two fecks about property tax. They have their development plans, standards and guidelines to adhere to, and, given the 'overlord' focus now on all planning applications they will be reticent to stray from these standards.

On the actual question, planners arent stupid. If you apply for a two bed house but with an attic which is designed which to be converted in the future, they will see that. The section and ridge height will be obvious. They will simply make the decision based on the mass and form of the house, not the proposed occupancy factor or bedroom number.

But as martinn123 says, its a good plan. Now lets hope you can get planning

yoloc

martinn123 wrote: »

Your question assumes we have joined up thinking between the various arms of the State

Do Ministers, who set Taxation policy, Revenue who collect the Tax, and planning officials in Local Govt, all work in unison.

I have seen no evidence to think that.

The only common factor is that they all get Paid from the Public purse.

Sounds like a good plan by the way, I did that in 2000, and have never regretted my decision.

If the new tax where to come in, i think the government will be asking planner's to look out for such build's to see who and where their trying to get around it. Some might even do it to fall into the lower tax bracket as it is like building a 3 bed ground floor that will be worth X-amount but teh house actully has 5-6 beds and worth more. All that said though there is no plans to change it but IMO, i think the government will go down this route after they have eased us into the property tax after a few year's. It's just something that has crossed my mind seeing as ill hopefully be building again in the coming year's

sydthebeat wrote: »

There are no plans to link 'property tax' to house size.
So far plans are only to link it to house value.

So that being said, if youve a two bed house in a rural area and its assume to be worth €120K youll pay tax according to the band it falls into. If you convert the attic and it becomes a 4 bed house and its worth €175K, then youll probably be in the next tax band and pay accordingly.

My own opinion, planners dont and wont give two fecks about property tax. They have their development plans, standards and guidelines to adhere to, and, given the 'overlord' focus now on all planning applications they will be reticent to stray from these standards.

On the actual question, planners arent stupid. If you apply for a two bed house but with an attic which is designed which to be converted in the future, they will see that. The section and ridge height will be obvious. They will simply make the decision based on the mass and form of the house, not the proposed occupancy factor or bedroom number.

But as martinn123 says, its a good plan. Now lets hope you can get planning

I know the planner's aren't stupid but it crossed my mind after working on similar house's with 3 bedrooms on ground floor, with a very high ridge line in the attic and always thought why didn't the planner's ask for a smaller ridge or does it even matter. If i was to inform the planner's of my wish's about wanting a high ridge for a future attic conversion, would they ever refuse a planning application for a 2 bed house for something like this.

sydthebeat

No

I know your only talking hypotheticals, but you MUST understand that:

1.

They will simply make the decision based on the mass and form of the house, not the proposed occupancy factor or bedroom number.

There is practically no different in a planner making adjudicating on the visual impact of a 2 bed single storey house with a ridgeline at 7.5 m, or a planner adjudicating on the visual impact of a 4 bed dormer with a ridgeline at 7.5 m. The occupancy and number of bedrooms has nothing to do with it. If they have an issue with the mass, height and form of the building it doesnt matter if its a 2, 3 or 4 bed occupancy.

2.

So far plans are only to link it to house value.

The moment someone converts their attic to add on another 2 bedrooms they are liable for the extra tax on the extra value that is accrued on the dwelling. Its a self declaration tax, so just because its not declared doesnt mean its not applicable. The Tax man doesn't give two fecks either about whether theres planning or not for extensions / conversions etc. If the value of the building is X then the tax is liable on that amount.

Some might even do it to fall into the lower tax bracket as it is like building a 3 bed ground floor that will be worth X-amount but teh house actully has 5-6 beds and worth more.

Its liable on whats its worth. It doesnt matter how many bedrooms are in it.

martinn123

sydthebeat wrote: »

The moment someone converts their attic to add on another 2 bedrooms they are liable for the extra tax on the extra value that is accrued on the dwelling. Its a self declaration tax, so just because its not declared doesnt mean its not applicable. The Tax man doesn't give two fecks either about whether theres planning or not for extensions / conversions etc. If the value of the building is X then the tax is liable on that amount.

Not quite, the Revenue accept the value placed on the house this year, as being the value for the next 3 ( I think ) years
So any additions/ extentions /renovations will not effect the Tax due, until that period expires

sydthebeat

martinn123 wrote: »

Not quite, the Revenue accept the value placed on the house this year, as being the value for the next 3 ( I think ) years
So any additions/ extentions /renovations will not effect the Tax due, until that period expires

agreed