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Learner driver without fully licensed driver - Risks are too low
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28-08-2013 9:34pm#1
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...We'll have to say that if he continues to drive the car we will have to remove ourselves from the policy. Its not nice and will cause a rift (ah the youth of today!!)
Well rift this - if he drives that yoke unaccompanied, he has no insurance cover per sé to indemnify him in the event of things going pear-shaped and his causing damage. What he has is a couple of bits of paper that'll get him past the Gardaí. Dr. Goose prescribes three or four kicks up the hole, and tell him get himself in gear and quit acting like a seventeen-year-old with his head up his arse.
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Well rift this - if he drives that yoke unaccompanied, he has no insurance cover per sé to indemnify him in the event of things going pear-shaped and his causing damage. What he has is a couple of bits of paper that'll get him past the Gardaí. Dr. Goose prescribes three or four kicks up the hole, and tell him get himself in gear and quit acting like a seventeen-year-old with his head up his arse.
Unfortunately a kick up the arse is something we cannot administer. He has no parental figures per sé either. We are doing him a favor but he thinks we are holding him back. The way I see it - is that he is a risk to himself and others until he has proven in a test that he is proficient enough. If I'm not there there is nothing to slow him down if he is going too fast or nothing to assist him if he is doing something wrong which could potentially endanger his or others lives.0 -
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"Legitimate" danger? You only have to crash once or hit someone once. I would consider someone without a full licence a hazard. Anyone who doesnt should be a learner too.Thats why people give learners space. The same space I afford to someone who is driving and I suspect is distracted or drunk. They all do random stuff.Deleted User wrote: »Why not go for a spin in the car with him. If you think he is a competent driver, then leave him be and let him enjoy the learning experience? If he's not competent (and is therefore a legitimate danger on the road) then book him lessons with a qualified instructor and work from there.
Theres a lot more to good driving than not being in an accident. Most learners doing there test have never had an accident. Half of them fail anyway.Deleted User wrote: »As a learner driver who drives unaccompanied for all of my journeys (spending at least an hour a day in the car), and as someone who has yet to cause any accidents or harm to anyone, I can safely that once I pass the test and get my full license, I will continue to drive as 'recklessly' as I am currently doing so.
Join the club but you'll have to drive to a minimum standard on a test firstDeleted User wrote: »A pink license will have no affect on my everyday driving style whatsoever.
Its very logical, all learners have done is pass a electronic quiz, the idea they can seat in buckle up and drive around legally would be stupid. As for enforcement it wont be hard for long. Soon it will be 2 points for being unaccompanied, 2 for no L plates and off the road if you receive 6 points. No need to bring learners to court anymore as is the current way.Deleted User wrote: »Personally, I find the 'learner must be accompanied' rule silly, impractical and naive. I don't see the harm in it.
You mean like a driving testDeleted User wrote: »I think a system where a person's driving instructor can formally approve them for solo driving would be a good idea (who better to be a judge of competence).
You can drive unaccompanied when you pass it. If you're a competent good driver you'll pass it with nothing to fear. If the test currently doesn't measure ones competency enough would a harder, longer test be better?
I personally don't mind learners driving alone but don't fool yourself into thinking they have an equal right to be on the road as full licence holders. If they did what's the point of the driving test. The 6 month rule should be scrapped then no one has the excuse not to have a full licence when they deem themselves good enough.0 -
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"Legitimate" danger? You only have to crash once or hit someone once. I would consider someone without a full licence a hazard. Anyone who doesnt should be a learner too.Thats why people give learners space. The same space I afford to someone who is driving and I suspect is distracted or drunk. They all do random stuff.
Theres a lot more to good driving than not being in an accident.
I wonder, statistically speaking, the percentage of crashes on our roads that are caused by leaner drivers, versus fully licensed drivers. As a learner, I've put a lot of time and effort into learning to drive around the roads in my town, the dodgy turns, awkward lanes, etc. and all the troublesome spots about the place. I've done 99% of this while driving for long periods of time in the night (when the roads are empty).
In daytime driving (when the roads are crowded, etc.) I operate smoothly amongst other traffic and would consider myself to be a very safe driver on the roads.Most learners doing there test have never had an accident. Half of them fail anyway.
To be fair, the test is not exactly an exact or 'be-all' measure of a person's driving ability. If I pass the white line at a stop sign I've failed the test. Despite that in real life, everyday driving, the stop line could be too far back to be practical. Or I could have successfully stopped at 10 other stop signs, but rolled slightly over one, and this could result in my failure.Its very logical, all learners have done is pass a electronic quiz, the idea they can seat in buckle up and drive around legally would be stupid. As for enforcement it wont be hard for long. Soon it will be 2 points for being unaccompanied, 2 for no L plates and off the road if you receive 6 points. No need to bring learners to court anymore as is the current way.
I agree that going from sitting at a computer to a dual carriageway is not an ideal situation. I do think there should be two or three lessons made mandatory before you can apply for your learner permit, to ensure that you have some practical experience.
Introducing fines and points and what have you will not make any difference, as the Gardai generally don't enforce it anyway. They know, as well as the majority of motorists, that learners are generally competent and aren't on the road 'for the laugh', but instead to achieve something (be that going to work, etc.) and fining them for it is counter-productive.
The only people I'd like to see getting hit with such fines are the silly boy racer brigades that show up at all hours on a saturday night. I'd be certain a majority of the boy racers around the towns and cities are learners.You mean like a driving test You can drive unaccompanied when you pass it. If you're a competent good driver you'll pass it with nothing to fear. If the test currently doesn't measure ones competency enough would a harder, longer test be better?
A flawed aspect to take into consideration is that if I fail the test because I did something minor, I have to wait 6(?) weeks before I can even re-apply for the test again. Also couple that with me having to do 12 lessons (Regardless of how quickly i pick up driving or competency at it). And after the theory test, I must wait 6 months before I can apply for the test the first time. This all serves to be merely a frustration to most learners who want to get out on their own.I personally don't mind learners driving alone but don't fool yourself into thinking they have an equal right to be on the road as full licence holders. If they did what's the point of the driving test. The 6 month rule should be scrapped then no one has the excuse not to have a full licence when they deem themselves good enough.
As a general observation, I find it's the learners on the road (or at least cars with L plates) that act safest. Some of the worst encounters I've had are with older folks (nothing against them at all, as a whole. Of course there are always some that will be courteous and respectful, but I find that it's generally the older ladies and gentlemen who seem to be aggressive or clumsy on the road).
That said, cars acting unusually safe or unsafe are a minority. In my ~6 months of being on the road daily, 'hazardous' drivers (with and without L plates) are very much uncommon. I find the vast majority of drivers (including the L brigade) are pretty much par for the course with knowing what to expect. With the exception of red-light jumpers, which seems to be very common.
This is all in my own experience of course. Everyone's will differ.
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