Some clarity in the madness

Inconspicuous

Hey

I've been lurking on these forums for a long time and know you guys are probably fed up with these "which car" threads.....but I'm at my wits end.

So the scenario and background. (sorry for the long post)

While I learned to drive at the age of 17, I didn't buy my first car until I was 25 and that has lasted 7 years up until Christmas of last year when it finally gave up the ghost. In those 7 years, I met a girl, got 2 dogs, got married and we're now expecting our first child in November all going well.

We need a family car that can take us, the child, 2 dogs (lab & collie) and all the "necessities" that go with babies. :cool:

We've a budget of between 13-14k (cash) and our driving style would really suit a petrol over diesel considering it'll primarily be my wife who will be driving it short distances (roughly 10km each way to work and some longer weekend trips away) so don't really want all the problems with DPFs and the likes.

I've two trains of thought on what to get.

My first is to buy a large MPV like the Galaxy / Grand Espace etc and drive it til it dies safe in the knowledge that if/when our family grows in the future I'll not have to worry about changing the car to fit everyone and everything in. Nor will I have to worry about actually being able to afford to change the car. Granted, the size of these things would be complete over-kill for our current needs but is it worth biting the bullet now!!

I've looked at the C4 grand picasso (was my #1 choice), grand scenic, s-max and touran as an option. However, I've recently ruled all of these out as unfortunately we have bought a travel system (buggy and the likes) which included a maxi-cosi easyfix isofix base and it cannot be used in any of these cars due to the fact that they all have under floor storage in the second row. Would love to meet the design genius who thought up that one! :mad:

So I've narrowed it down to possibly a Peugeot 807 or a Grand Espace like this:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308208398770/sort/default/usedcars/model/grand_espace/make/renault/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/postcode/bt39jp/page/1/keywords/initiale/radius/1501?logcode=p

I know that these cars have a DPF as well, but I live next to the motorway so could take it for a jaunt up the road to regenerate every week or 2

My other train of thought is buy a car that suits our needs now and look to change it nearer in the future as our needs change. I was thinking a petrol Mazda 5 like this one:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201307087701801/sort/default/usedcars/model/mazda5/make/mazda/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/3/radius/1501/keywords/furano/postcode/bt39jp?logcode=p

Have generally found Japanese petrol engines to be very reliable and that particular car is well specced. My main concern is that the tax on this yoke is already €750 a year and God only knows how much that will have risen to in say 4 years time if I need to sell it on. Will I even be able to sell it on given the somewhat understandable fixation in this country on motor tax and how much value would actually be left in it to help with trading up to a larger car if necessary?

A lot of people have been suggesting just buying an estate, but to be honest, I've yet to see an estate with enough boot space for 2 dogs and pram, luggage etc.

What I'm looking for is for some advice on what route to take. Has anybody here been in the same situation and what have they done?

I'd really appreciate you help on this.

coolisin

To be honest OP, I find estates have more boot space then an MPV.

You certainly gain in height but that is about it, and when you decide to use the 3rd row of seats forget about getting the dog in there, you'll just about get a pram in there.

I have not personally used an MPV but being in and around my sisters.

You wont find a mazda 5 of that spec in ireland easily! That one looks half decent.

Inconspicuous

coolisin wrote: »

To be honest OP, I find estates have more boot space then an MPV.

You certainly gain in height but that is about it, and when you decide to use the 3rd row of seats forget about getting the dog in there, you'll just about get a pram in there.

I have not personally used an MPV but being in and around my sisters.

You wont find a mazda 5 of that spec in ireland easily! That one looks half decent.

Thanks for the quick reply. To be honest we're not really planning on having more than 3 kids, but what attracts me to the MPVs is that by taking out the back seats (or folding them into the floor) you get a very large and tall boot that can be divided up using dog guards/dividers and so could stack luggage in one section and have the dogs in the other.

You're right about not getting that spec model over here which is why I'd actually go to the UK to get it and am quite interested in that particular car

What does your sister have? How does she find it?

Bigus

You're right to go for space now, it makes life easier and you don't have to become an expert packer, I had a huge Previa many moons ago and the extra space was brilliant, kids grow up super fast so you're right to think ahead.
Also maybe get an MPV that you can take the rearmost seat out altogether and store away.
Your first choice was good maybe lose the Travel system :eek:to help car choice

or go for something like this expensive to tax but cheap to buy monster from bangernomics thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86210531&postcount=2139

Inconspicuous

Bigus wrote: »

You're right to go for space now, it makes life easier and you don't have to become an expert packer, I had a huge Previa many moons ago and the extra space was brilliant, kids grow up super fast so you're right to think ahead.

Glad to see I'm not totally mad to think of getting something large now and that others have thought of/done it too :P

Bigus wrote: »

Also maybe get an MPV that you can take the rearmost seat out altogether and store away.
Your first choice was good maybe lose the Travel system :eek:to help car choice

I really like those Grand Picassos despite the EGS system in them. Very versatile and a pleasant enough place to be. To be honest though, I think I'd have a very hard time convincing the wife to give up the travel system and isofix as she's really fallen for the one we've bought and having spoken to others who have gotten them after their second or third children ( particularly the isofix bases) they all tell us that they regret not having gotten them sooner :cool:

Bigus wrote: »

or go for something like this expensive to tax but cheap to buy monster from bangernomics thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86210531&postcount=2139

Yeah, have looked at those alright and you're right, there's some tax on them!! I guess if I picked it up cheap and put the rest of the cash into an account to pay for tax and the fuel tanker to follow it, it could be a possibility.

I have heard horror stories about the safety of these cars though?

Also not sure if just having two seats in the middle row and a bench at the back would suit us particularly well as it would with a bench in the second row and a much larger boot in the back

coolisin

Inconspicuous wrote: »

What does your sister have? How does she find it?

She's has a Zafira.
They like it, but it's a diesel and being troublesome now as the mileage grows,
I just found a big estate easier to live back in the day.
I suppose when you plan the extra height in that way, you describe may work.

I'd be leaning to that Mazda, but then I would.
The interior plastics will be cheap.

Inconspicuous

coolisin wrote: »

She's has a Zafira.
They like it, but it's a diesel and being troublesome now as the mileage grows,
I just found a big estate easier to live back in the day.
I suppose when you plan the extra height in that way, you describe may work.

I'd be leaning to that Mazda, but then I would.
The interior plastics will be cheap.

Had a zafira as a rental in Italy a good few years ago. Was gutted at the time as I was hoping to get an alfa, but sure thems the breaks! They're a grand car from what I remember, but I read a lot on other forums that their seating arrangements are very clumsy and outdated now when compared to other cars in the segment.

I have to admit that I like both of the cars that I posted and that mazda in that spec is quite nice. When you say the interior plastics will be cheap do you mean that from a "they'll break" point of view or just that they look and feel cheap but will still take normal use?

Believe me, I'm under no illusions as to the fact that I'm not going to be in anything of luxury in a big family car in my budget. If money was no object I'd be buying a brand new top spec Ford S-Max Titanium X Sport something along the lines of this

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201307257982818/sort/pricedesc/make/FORD/model/S-MAX/postcode/bt39jp/radius/1501/keywords/titanium/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/maximum-age/up_to_1_year_old/page/1/advert-type/featured-listing/dealer/25234/usedcars?logcode=flp

But until I win the lotto or the wife gets herself a rich sugar daddy on the side, I'll have to make do with something a little less nice :rolleyes:

Turbulent Bill

Inconspicuous wrote: »

To be honest though, I think I'd have a very hard time convincing the wife to give up the travel system and isofix as she's really fallen for the one we've bought and having spoken to others who have gotten them after their second or third children ( particularly the isofix bases) they all tell us that they regret not having gotten them sooner :cool:

Bear in mind that lots of the Maxi Cosi seat bases (the bit that stays in the car ) have seat belt retention as well as Isofix. Unless you're regularly switching it between cars you won't notice any difference between the two systems, and you'd be nuts to let it decide your car choice.

I'd go for a big estate.

Bigus

If you got this for 2500 grand there'd be a lot of money left for tax and petrol.
Not the best Toyota engine ever made though

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-toyota-previa-7-seater-auto/5421925

Inconspicuous

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Bear in mind that lots of the Maxi Cosi seat bases (the bit that stays in the car ) have seat belt retention as well as Isofix. Unless you're regularly switching it between cars you won't notice any difference between the two systems, and you'd be nuts to let it decide your car choice.

I'd go for a big estate.

Unfortunately it's not that simple.

While the base we have has isofix as well as seatbelt retention, all of the maxi-cosi bases have the foot support bar that rests on the floor. From what I've read, irrespective of whether you use the isofix or seat belt restraints (they can't be used together apparently) they both rely on this foot support as part of the system. This means that they can't be used on the lids of compartments, which unfortunately rules out a lot of these cars.

Actually tested the one we have in a C4 Grand Picasso and while the foot prop reached the bottom of the compartment, the actual floor in the bottom of the compartment itself is not solid, so still can't use it!!

I know I'm mad to be choosing a car based on one of these systems, but then, at the end of the day, I'm choosing a car to suit my needs and for the foreseeable future (next 4-6 years) I'm most likely going to be using one of these bases for the majority of that time. They're all round safer than simple seat belt restrained seats and unfortunately I have to find a car that can accommodate them safely no matter how mad that seems.

Trust me, the petrol-head of my youth would never have thought I'd be using this to form part of my criteria for a car, but needs change I guess

Inconspicuous

Bigus wrote: »

If you got this for 2500 grand there'd be a lot of money left for tax and petrol.
Not the best Toyota engine ever made though

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2005-toyota-previa-7-seater-auto/5421925

What are these things like? You say it's not the best engine they ever made, so how would it hold up now that it's getting closer to 100K miles? Is there any other engines in these things that would be better?

coolisin

That Previa is a good spot!

The Mazda interior plastics are cheap looking and feeling but I've given them abuse in the 3 and they'll held up but then I don't have kids!

Zubeneschamali

Volvo estate?

Macy0161

We've a mazda 5 (6+1), petrol. Heavy enough on petrol we find, and there's no boot space when the very back seats are up. The sliding rear doors are great for getting babies/ toddlers/ children in and out, and the extra height (above an estate) makes this all easier too. You won't fit 3 car seats across the back though - so you'd need a 6+1 model. So with 3 children, one of the 3rd row seats will be in play, and that's half the boot gone. Doubt you'd fit a dog and pram in what's left tbh.

Have to agree with the poster earlier - is it not a bit arseways to get a car to fit the travel system, rather than a travel system to fit the car ye want? You won't see the time going until they're big enough for a booster seat!

Inconspicuous

Macy0161 wrote: »

We've a mazda 5 (6+1), petrol. Heavy enough on petrol we find, and there's no boot space when the very back seats are up. The sliding rear doors are great for getting babies/ toddlers/ children in and out, and the extra height (above an estate) makes this all easier too. You won't fit 3 car seats across the back though - so you'd need a 6+1 model. So with 3 children, one of the 3rd row seats will be in play, and that's half the boot gone. Doubt you'd fit a dog and pram in what's left tbh.

Have to agree with the poster earlier - is it not a bit arseways to get a car to fit the travel system, rather than a travel system to fit the car ye want? You won't see the time going until they're big enough for a booster seat!

Thanks for the feed back on the Mazda. It's good to hear from people who are actually using the car. When you say it's heavy on petrol what kind of MPG do you think you're getting? I figured that once we got around to having number 3 that we would be outgrowing the Mazda and looking to change which is why I was asking if it would be even possible to shift on a high tax petrol model in the Irish market. Would it be better to bite the bullet now and buy the bigger car?

I know it's a bit arseways to get the car to fit the travel system, but in reality we feel that we're going to be using the travel system for quite some time to come as our family (hopefully) grows. The travel system makes life easier for moving babies and toddlers around as far as we can see and I reckon that anything that makes having kids easier has got to be a bonus. We need a car that fits in with these plans and not change our plans to suit the car. Next year we can maybe change her car for something nice where I can guarantee that a travel system won't figure anywhere in plans. Unfortunately, with this car purchase, it has to be a consideration.

Do you ming me asking if you have kids and how you managed with the Mazda?

Zubeneschamali, I actually test drove a V70 at that exact dealers a couple of months ago. Nice cars (if a little gutless) but I just felt that while as an estate it is quite large, it is not particularly tall and doesn't offer the same amount of space or flexibility.

Macy0161

Inconspicuous wrote: »

Do you ming me asking if you have kids and how you managed with the Mazda?

No complaints at all really. We use it as a 6 seater fairly regularly between us and nieces/ nephews, and in that regard it's been dead handy to all travel in one car rather than two. Sliding doors are a great help getting them in and out, even at this stage (4 and 6), but especially when it was strapping in a car seat or strapping them into a harness. Ours has roof rails, so when they were small and we had a car full, we did use roof bars and a roof box for buggies etc, but that was a really only on a couple of occasions. They do grow out of the big buggies, bulky car seats fairly quickly and even with all the seats in use, a couple of stroller type buggers fitted in the boot.

No idea on mpg - the missus is the main driver. I just hear the complaints about the fuel! I will say it's definitely not underpowered anyway, and isn't a bad drive. We test drove a Corollo Verso when we got it, and that was really sluggish and underpowered feeling with 3 adults, never mind a packed car.

I'm loath to really recommend any car, as it's so dependent on personal feelings. If we could've afforded one, we'd have gone s-max though! It's served us fine so far (5 years at this stage), but we plan to downsize in the next year or two as we don't need something quite as big, and/ or look at something awd or 4x4 (we live in the mountains). I can't comment on trading in or selling yet, but I don't really have high expectations when the time comes tbh (I think that's more about the market than the car though really!). I guess I would say really think about future needs - all the crap you have to carry with babies does go down a lot as they get older.

Turbulent Bill

Inconspicuous wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not that simple.

While the base we have has isofix as well as seatbelt retention, all of the maxi-cosi bases have the foot support bar that rests on the floor. From what I've read, irrespective of whether you use the isofix or seat belt restraints (they can't be used together apparently) they both rely on this foot support as part of the system. This means that they can't be used on the lids of compartments, which unfortunately rules out a lot of these cars.

Actually tested the one we have in a C4 Grand Picasso and while the foot prop reached the bottom of the compartment, the actual floor in the bottom of the compartment itself is not solid, so still can't use it!!

I know I'm mad to be choosing a car based on one of these systems, but then, at the end of the day, I'm choosing a car to suit my needs and for the foreseeable future (next 4-6 years) I'm most likely going to be using one of these bases for the majority of that time. They're all round safer than simple seat belt restrained seats and unfortunately I have to find a car that can accommodate them safely no matter how mad that seems.

Trust me, the petrol-head of my youth would never have thought I'd be using this to form part of my criteria for a car, but needs change I guess

In that case, I'd be inclined to fix a metal plate to the floor, covering the compartment and hatch, then stick a mat over it. This would be more than sturdy enough for the seat base prop. My own base has the same prop (albeit pressing onto a normal car floor).

A bigger concern for me would be whether the travel system, 7 tons of baby supplies etc. would easily fit into the back.