Angry at bidding process

imfml

Hi all, looking for some advice. I'm not an angry person, but have recently found myself very stressed out and p*ssed off at a recent bidding process.

A house I was bidding on went up over 20k with just two of us bidding, and I eventually dropped out. Like anyone bidding I was asking lots of questions, and I know I asked the EA all the right things. I had a strong feeling he was either lying or the person bidding against me was bullsh1ting and wouldn't be able to close the deal. I was fairly sure he'd be calling back.

A few months later the house did appear on the PPR, having sold for a significant sum less than my top bid. I got an explanation from the EA that the vendor wanted to close quickly and didn't want to delay by coming back to me, and so accepted the renegotiated price. This was eventually put in writing for me by the EA. I felt that the EA could have represented me better, as he knew I was genuine and knew I was very disappointed at having to drop out of bidding.

I'm trying not to be too angry about this and to continue on my merry search. Alot of people have told me to calm down in the last few days. But I am furious. At the vendor who allowed someone to screw them & me over. At the person bidding who I suspect couldn't afford the house at what they bid but was happy to drive the price up on others, and at the EA who claims to have wanted to come back to me, but presided over the farce.

The NPSRA says there is nothing they can do, other than check the records of the EA and confirm the story. There is nothing really I can do, but I am still fuming. Prices in the area are on the up and there is a chance I won't be able to afford where I want now.

I usually don't have a problem building a bridge, but in a game where you're dealing with people who can't seem to do their job properly and people who cheat, what can I do?

Kristopherus

Is there a chance that the other bidder was one of the EA's lackeys? It happens quite a lot , you know;).

ABajaninCork

I know you're angry and upset, but you need to realise something. Everyone knows that EA's are not the most honest of people. But I think in this case, he's probably telling the truth. The house might've been sold for cash for all you know. It certainly seems like it going by the fact it went for a lower price than your bid. Cash is king!!

The Estate Agent DOES NOT represent you. He works for the vendor. The vendor give the EA instructions and takes advice from then. The vendor pays the agent commission. NOT you!

imfml

ABajaninCork wrote: »

The house might've been sold for cash for all you know. It certainly seems like it going by the fact it went for a lower price than your bid.

One of the questions I asked during the bidding was who was I bidding against, and was told it was someone in the same position as me, a first time buyer with mortgage approval

ABajaninCork

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I know you're angry and upset, but you need to realise something. Everyone knows that EA's are not the most honest of people.

Like I say....

ABajaninCork

imfml wrote: »

One of the questions I asked during the bidding was who was I bidding against, and was told it was someone in the same position as me, a first time buyer with mortgage approval

That doesn't sound right to me either. Why take a bid for a lower amount when it would've taken just as long to close? I still think it went for cash. Or maybe as another poster says it went to someone 'in the know'.

Are you SURE the vendor informed of your bid?

imfml

Thanks ABajaninCork, I have enough experience now to form my own opinion on Estate Agents! I can't be sure of what the vendor knew. I had been told during bidding that the vendor wanted to sell ASAP though. I was told after I saw the price drop on the PPR and contacted the EA, that the purchaser had delayed the renegotiation. Cute whore as my Dad would say. I appreciate your replies, but I can only go on what I was told happened in and after the process, and am just looking for any advice on avenues open to me. As far as I can see there are none, but I may be wrong and that's what I'm posting for.

ABajaninCork

Unless you can PROVE negligence or wrongdoing, then you don't have a leg to stand on. Sorry.

Andre Salmon

That's odd that house sold for less then your final offer.
From my house buying experience, which was in the boom time admittedly,the EA Seems to decide who gets to buy the house. The vendor only knows what they are told. We missed out on a couple of houses and subsequently found out that the EA didn't pass on our bid to the vendor. We also offered above the final sale price.
I don't blame you for being annoyed, I was fuming for years

ork1

so, do ye reckon Estate agents are getting brown envelopes from some bidders to get things to go their way?

Has anyone heard of it happening?- it certainly seems they have a lot of say in who the final purchaser is alright...

The Phantom Jipper

Not sure how feasible this is but perhaps you could get a forwarding address of the previous owner and write them a letter outlining your bid and you suspect the EA might not have been acting in their best interests. If the EA wasn't giving the seller all the relevant info in order to get a cushy deal for their mate etc, you'd have them BANGED TO RIGHTS after the seller goes nuts at being deceived.

P. Breathnach

I don't think all EAs are dishonest (some are). But they are not on your side if you are trying to purchase a property. They are playing a game in which you are the opponent.

In recent times it has become fairly common for purchasers to find defects in the property at the survey stage and seek to re-negotiate the price by an amount sufficient to pay for remedial work. I don't believe all the discoveries are genuine, as some of the problems would have been evident to any person viewing a house prior to bidding on it. It's often just a game of brinkmanship to secure a discount of, perhaps, €20k.

The vendor has to make a judgement. How is he or she to know that if they refuse to deal on those terms that your best offer still stands (okay, just ask you) and that you won't play the same game as the contract is about to be signed?

Marcusm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That doesn't sound right to me either. Why take a bid for a lower amount when it would've taken just as long to close? I still think it went for cash. Or maybe as another poster says it went to someone 'in the know'.

Are you SURE the vendor informed of your bid?

Some reasons

1. new build house price shows net of VAT on ppr
2. survey showed serious defect and consequent reduction
3. legal searches showed title defect and consequent reduction
4. money paid separately for non integral fittings (ie loose items)
5. cash under the table
6. disingenuity by EA/vendor

ABajaninCork

Well - the cash under the table sounds about right. And I already said so...

jimmycrackcorm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Well - the cash under the table sounds about right. And I already said so...

Very likely this happened particularly if the difference in value could cross a stamp duty barrier. My SIL bought this way a few years ago, paying a cash amount for 'contents'.

imfml

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't think all EAs are dishonest (some are). But they are not on your side if you are trying to purchase a property. They are playing a game in which you are the opponent.

In recent times it has become fairly common for purchasers to find defects in the property at the survey stage and seek to re-negotiate the price by an amount sufficient to pay for remedial work. I don't believe all the discoveries are genuine, as some of the problems would have been evident to any person viewing a house prior to bidding on it. It's often just a game of brinkmanship to secure a discount of, perhaps, €20k.

The vendor has to make a judgement. How is he or she to know that if they refuse to deal on those terms that your best offer still stands (okay, just ask you) and that you won't play the same game as the contract is about to be signed?

I think this sums up what I think has happened and I'll just have to come to terms with the fact I played too honest a game.

I knew the house needed repairs and bid based on that, while others either didn't or tried their luck later on.

Trying to contact the previous owner though is a good idea, I'll look into that. Obviously this kind of thing goes on as Andre Salmon says it happened to him before, and hopefully I won't be left fuming for years and will find something along the same lines soon. If not and I am forced to look outside the area, I will be fuming and disgusted that somebody elses dishonesty landed them a reward.

If this type of thing does become common though it will only ad to the frustration of buying a house.

P. Breathnach

imfml wrote: »

...
If this type of thing does become common though it will only ad to the frustration of buying a house.

And the frustration of selling one!

I sold a house a couple of years ago, and it had an obvious problem: a flat roof that was in very poor condition. It seemed likely that the best fix would really be a rebuild/extension of the kitchen, so it would have been wasteful to fix the roof prior to sale.

I instructed the EA to draw attention to the problem, and to make it clear to purchasers that I would make no concession based on a survey report on the condition of the flat roof.

It worked. In fact, the EA told me that removing the roof involved dealing with asbestos, a thing that was unforeseen at the time the sale was agreed, but detected before contracts were exchanged. The purchasers treated that as their bad luck, and took the hit.

whippet

imfml wrote: »

I knew the house needed repairs and bid based on that, while others either didn't or tried their luck later on.

this could be the key here.

I would imagine the buyer had a survey done and found a whole pile more work to be done or a bigger problem than would have been obvious prior to survey and managed to negotiate a lower price

ted1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Very likely this happened particularly if the difference in value could cross a stamp duty barrier. My SIL bought this way a few years ago, paying a cash amount for 'contents'.

They changes stamp duty so it doesn't work like that anymore.

what does happen is the seller may owe the bank money and that bank are lettign them sell the house and write off/down the debt. if the seller gets soem cash in the sale then he can keep it and the bank will only get what they think the house went for.

D3PO

imfml wrote: »

Hi all, looking for some advice. I'm not an angry person, but have recently found myself very stressed out and p*ssed off at a recent bidding process.

A house I was bidding on went up over 20k with just two of us bidding, and I eventually dropped out. Like anyone bidding I was asking lots of questions, and I know I asked the EA all the right things. I had a strong feeling he was either lying or the person bidding against me was bullsh1ting and wouldn't be able to close the deal. I was fairly sure he'd be calling back.

A few months later the house did appear on the PPR, having sold for a significant sum less than my top bid. I got an explanation from the EA that the vendor wanted to close quickly and didn't want to delay by coming back to me, and so accepted the renegotiated price. This was eventually put in writing for me by the EA. I felt that the EA could have represented me better, as he knew I was genuine and knew I was very disappointed at having to drop out of bidding.

I'm trying not to be too angry about this and to continue on my merry search. Alot of people have told me to calm down in the last few days. But I am furious. At the vendor who allowed someone to screw them & me over. At the person bidding who I suspect couldn't afford the house at what they bid but was happy to drive the price up on others, and at the EA who claims to have wanted to come back to me, but presided over the farce.

The NPSRA says there is nothing they can do, other than check the records of the EA and confirm the story. There is nothing really I can do, but I am still fuming. Prices in the area are on the up and there is a chance I won't be able to afford where I want now.

I usually don't have a problem building a bridge, but in a game where you're dealing with people who can't seem to do their job properly and people who cheat, what can I do?

The EA doesn't represent the Seller ever. So you have no reason to be angry. The vendor can take whatever offer off whomever they want and the EA is there to facilitate their wishes.

I can understand why your disappointed but unfortunately its a case of put up or shut up. If you wanted the house that badly you should have been checking sporadically with the agent what the status was of the sale or you should have gone higher with a bid.

sounds harsh I know but that's house sales for ya.

Henry Ford III

D3PO wrote: »

The EA doesn't represent the Seller ever....

I thought the EA always acted for and took instructions from the seller?

I agree that the OP has grounds for dissapointment in the bidding process, but not for anger.

GetWithIt

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I thought the EA always acted for and took instructions from the seller?

I agree that the OP has grounds for dissapointment in the bidding process, but not for anger.

The EA works in the best interests of their staff and shareholders.

At some points in the process this self-interest works to the benefit of the seller, at others the buyer. The point at which changes if when you, the buyer, give over your booking deposit.

That is their payment and the end of the labour intensive part of the process for them. Once this occurs they have absolutely no interest in the sellers best interests.

Structural defects, problems with regards securing mortgage, they don't care. You sort it out. Renegotiate the price, whatever. Take as long as you like. Just get back to us when you need to close the deal. We've got our money. On to the next deal.

The last thing they then want is the deal falling though and having to put the house back on the market. More open days. More phone calls. More hassle for money they already have in the bank.

D3PO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I thought the EA always acted for and took instructions from the seller?

I agree that the OP has grounds for dissapointment in the bidding process, but not for anger.

typo meant the buyer. well spotted

Boom__Boom

imfml wrote: »

I felt that the EA could have represented me better, as he knew I was genuine and knew I was very disappointed at having to drop out of bidding.

I usually don't have a problem building a bridge, but in a game where you're dealing with people who can't seem to do their job properly and people who cheat, what can I do?

You need to completely forget the notion that the estate agent has any interest in representing you well at all.

An estate agent's job is essentially a salesman and its in their interest to sell the largest number of homes at the highest possible price in the quickest amount of time. They are never ever going to have the purchaser's interest as their priority.

As a salesperson the estate agent will generally be someone who is good at creating an impression that is personable, friendly and credible.

The estate agent is acting in the best interest of his/her client and as such their main duty is in maximising the price the seller will receive.

Personally I would always assume an the estate agent is lying (or at the very least stretching the truth to the utmost).

An estate agent's interest and your interest would be pretty much opposite.

They want to sell you the first house you walk into at the highest possible price.

You want to buy the best home for yourself at the lowest possible price.

An estate agent isn't massively concerned with building up a good reputation, especially in relation to the people buying a house. Estate agents only get paid by the seller and the odds of someone who is buying a house now becoming a seller any time soon are pretty remote. What are the odds someone buying a house in Ireland is going to sell it within 5 years? 10 year? 15 years? 20 years?

I would say that in the current environment given that it was supposedly a first-time buyer with mortgage approval and the house wasn't in perfect nick then the EA's story of the vendor accepting a lower bid to close the deal if some months had passed does have the possibility of being true. If it were me I would be very interested in talking to the seller though.

Overall the situation sucks but there doesn't seem to be much appetite to do anything about making it better.

Hopeful you have better luck next time.