BIL and new gf joining us abroad without asking

LegacyUser

(Sorry this is long, tl;dr at bottom)

My husband and I are in our late 30s and work in a remote asian region for 3 months each year. We have many local friends, and split our time between working/socialising through work enjoying authentic local cuisine, with the remainder spent as a couple hillwalking and exploring.

We’ve never been into ‘couples holidays’, did a few in our 20s and found them very difficult as we like to get up early, don’t drink, not into party scene, and others found us ‘boring’. Which is fine, different strokes and all that. Since then, we’ve always done our own thing and thoroughly enjoyed it.

For the past several years, my husband’s brother has almost joined us on our time in Asia but backed out at the last minute as he was single and didn’t want to be “stuck with a romantic couple.” We were both thankful he didn’t join us as he is a party animal, inclined to sleep all day and that wouldn’t have fit well with our lifestyle. That and the fact that we are primarily there for work, it would be odd to have someone tagging along with us.

I was concerned as to culturally how he would fit in. There are very different ways of showing politeness which is important to us for our work environment and getting along with the local people, and my husband’s brother always laughed when hearing about this and responded with racism.

He’s late 20s and wouldn’t know either of us well [my husband left home young], we see him at most 4 or 5 times a year and live at opposite ends of the country.

He met a girl who’s nearer our age group 5 months ago and it has become very serious quickly, but they don’t seem to have much in common and prefer to spend their time together as part of a group.

I think because she’s nearer our age, my husband’s brother has tried to push us together frequently, inviting us to dinner most weekends, but due to our work schedule and distance apart, we’ve only met in total 3 times since they got together, each time for dinner. This in itself was difficult as his girlfriend has a very picky diet and would only eat very specific type of food so we had to go to the same restaurant each time.

In general, I’m very quiet and wouldn’t be very social. My husband is similar. I found it quite hard work having to constantly make conversation with someone I have very little in common with, with no input from the men. My husband’s brother talked about very masculine topics all night which only included my husband. I had a quiet word with my husband’s brother about perhaps including all of us in conversation as a group and he told me ‘sure you know better how to chat to women’. He has quite an odd attitude to women in general which I’m not fond of.

The first time we met her was 2 weeks after he started seeing her, and within 15 minutes she asked me about our travels to this country and commented how handy it is that we have our own vehicle there and that it would be great if they could borrow it sometime. I mentioned that it is owned by our work and we can only use it for work while there but she said “oh well I guess we’ll have to tag along with you then.” While she was semi-joking, I found it a little forward for the first few minutes of conversation.

As of last week, they have out of the blue decided to join us in Asia this year and I’m already a little stressed about it.

My husband’s brother last week asking which dates we would be there this year and he told them, assuming they were planning future dinner dates knowing we would soon be departing.

They didn’t ask if we would like them to join and haven’t mentioned asia since that first night we met her. My husband’s brother simply told him he was pricing flights and wanted to book asap.

To me, this seems very sudden and forward, this girl barely knows us yet, but I admit I’m not a very social person so perhaps it’s just me.

My husband was taken aback and asked him “Is [girlfriend] planning on coming out with you also?” and his brother told him of course, and that he was on speaker phone and then she said hi. Obviously my husband couldn’t say much then but he clearly wasn’t thrilled at being put on the spot and apart from supplying dates, didn’t discuss it further.

Every year previously my husband has put his brother off coming, expecting he will hate it, fearing he will be rude/insulting to our work friends there and that we will end up having to babysit him and have our trip entirely altered. He’s reminded him we are there for work, we are hundreds of miles away from any famous holiday sights, he hates Asian foods and would not get western foods. He will not be able to hire a vehicle and cannot borrow our work vehicle, if he wants to get around it would be only rare unreliable local buses. He said ‘sure I can tag along with you two’ but being single and stuck with a couple eventually put him off.

My husband thinks he’ll go off and find his own way this time if he brings his girlfriend with him. He’s promised me nearer the time [a few weeks yet] he will explain to him in person that he will have to go off alone with her, that we’re there for work and a different experience.

Neither have travelled outside of Spain/the Canaries before, and I can’t imagine they’ll get far. We both speak the local language enough to get by, and I fear they will be entirely dependent on us and will simply tag along, staying at our house etc as his brother planned to previously. I don’t believe they have the finance or experience to travel around of their own accord. I think he’s forgotten just how difficult it is to get around if you don’t have the language and connections.

I spend months looking forward to our yearly time there and would hate to have a trip tainted by them but my husband just laughed and thinks ‘let them at it’. He is extremely easygoing while I am not.

He is willing to meet up with them one or two weekends per month if it’s convenient for us to go to the touristy areas.

As far as we are aware, they haven’t even gone out alone together once for dinner yet, they only meet at weekends and they’ve had friend couples along every time.



Tl;dr Husband and I are soon to spend 3 months abroad working. Husband’s brother and his new girlfriend who we barely know have decided to join us without asking how we felt about it, they are pricing flights. My husband thinks they will have to go off on their own and find their own way around while I feel in reality they will be very dependent on us as we speak the local language, have accommodation, transport, local phones and it is incredibly isolated and difficult to get by without the language. The brother knew every other year that we prefer to be on our own and weren’t jumping at the idea of him joining for several months but seems to have forgotten now he has a girlfriend.

I am probably slightly anti-social, preferring to spend time only with those I’m very close to and I feel I may be overreacting by wishing they would change their minds and not join.

My husband hasn’t given it much thought since, shrugging his shoulders and laughing at the thought of them making this trip. I feel he is underreacting while he feels I am overreacting and need to just forget about it.

Anyone have any thoughts?

judgefudge

I can see where you're coming from I guess. It's pretty rude to just invite yourself along to stay in someone's house. Maybe he just assumed this would be ok (considering you never actually let him know that he wasn't welcome before). It's thoughtless. Could you not just tell him they can't stay in your house? Surely you could make up some excuse and then, if it's as rural as you say, they may have to go to a more touristy area close by to get accommodation?

I'd imagine when they get over there they'd be doing their own thing. Particularly if you're working. So I can see where you're coming from but at the same time you might be getting a bit too stressed from it.

December2012

Is it that odd for your bil to assume he's invited to Asia if this comes up every year?

Do they want to join you for the whole three months?

LegacyUser

December2012 wrote: »

Is it that odd for your bil to assume he's invited to Asia if this comes up every year?

Do they want to join you for the whole three months?

I suppose not though its caught me by surprise. He has never discussed this directly with me any year, only with my husband. (I know if I were joining someone even on a trip into town I would make sure they were okay with it first rather than just assuming, but I know not everyone thinks the same).
The reason he considered joining other years was because he was depressed at a long time being single and wanted a break far away.

We didn't expect it this year as he's no longer single.

Yes the whole 3 months. I'm not sure how they plan to do this financially other than to stay free in our house, etc. nothing was discussed at any point other than him calling my husband for a casual chat, then near the end of the call asking what dates we travel so he could book the same.

If it had come up casually along the way and had we expected it maybe I'd feel differently. Think I just feel a little taken aback.

tinkerbell

Ugh OP, sounds like a nightmare! I'd just say it straight out to him - "sorry but it's not appropriate for you to come along. You can't stay at our house as we're there working and you can't use our work vehicle either." Sounds like they are just trying to get a free holiday tbh .... I wouldn't be keen on being there at all, especially considering you said he's quite racist .... Recipe for disaster IMO.

Merkin

You need to put your foot down. Are they honestly expecting to stay with you for three months uninvited? :eek: How about actually them no, it doesn't suit?

CaraMay

Your husband is 50% to blame here. Why didn't he nip it in the bud during the phone call. Now he needs to call his brother and tell him you want to makethe trip as a couple. He would do this ASAP before they book flights.

The brother could also assume that once he flagged the idea to your husband and there was no issue then he had the red light... Its bad communication on your husbands part too

LegacyUser

Merkin wrote: »

You need to put your foot down. Are they honestly expecting to stay with you for three months uninvited? :eek: How about actually them no, it doesn't suit?

I don't know. They haven't actually discussed their plans at any point, but had my BIL come other years, he would've likely stayed with us the duration unless he made a couple of day/weekend trips alone.

We likely will say no once we figure what they're actually doing, but my husband thinks I'm overreacting and should just let them at it and let them find out they're not welcome to stay when they bother to ask. I just want to get some unbiased opinion to gauge if I am overreacting.

LegacyUser

CaraMay wrote: »

Your husband is 50% to blame here. Why didn't he nip it in the bud during the phone call. Now he needs to call his brother and tell him you want to makethe trip as a couple. He would do this ASAP before they book flights.

The brother could also assume that once he flagged the idea to your husband and there was no issue then he had the red light... Its bad communication on your husbands part too

I agree 100%. We've already had that discussion.

I would've shot it down the second I heard mention of flights but he's a lot more relaxed and thinks, if they want to travel to the same country, let them but because they havent communicated to him that they're spending their time with us, he seems to be blanking that part out.

I do understand that he was very caught on the hop though.

IrishEyes19

I do agree they jumped the gun on coming out. it should have been discussed further. But can I ask, are you afraid of socialising with people who are "different" I just ask because even in families, brothers and sisters are different. typical family often consists of the quiet book warm, outspoken loud one and the indifferent middle child and thats just three out of many options.

Im not trying to be harsh but strangely enough I think you have a bigger issue than whats at hand here. I know you are speaking here and constantly saying, we like this, we do this. they are like that. But how do you cope with other people so, how do you react when you are back at home, because you are negative about your BIL's lifestyle. The worst thing you have mentioned about him is his partying and not being with the girlfriend for very long. Now if you said he was an avid drug user and is violent or steals money. Id be concerned and telling you to put the foot down.

Il be honest. you like your cosy little set up, and dont want to be bothered by these people. Now you are entitled to that, but why not see them the odd time. Try and build a relationship. you are awkward clearly from your post, but you cant go on living in a cosy bubble with only your husband forever. it wont always be that way.
I know its easier to associate with people who are liked minded. Its less awkward, but thats an extremely bad way to go.

so I think first of all, you need to man up a little and tell them you arent ok with this plan. if you dont like it. say it, on paper you have a very strong opinion of what you dont like about it, so have the courage to be open with your BIL. Second, I think you need to look at yourself. I know I sound very harsh, but we all have your ways about us and I just think your desire to live one way might come off as very uninterested to other people. Its ok to like solitary life with certain people. But to shut out a certain kind is really losing out on an awful lot too. best of luck to you both

miss no stars

Compromise - a couple of weeks max.

There's a pair of you in this tbh.
I think it's a little weird that you're so put out by the idea of them being there at all, if I'm honest. It's not like it's a once in a lifetime trip for the pair of you... you go there every year... Most people would be happy to have the opportunity to bring family out to experience a place that, by your own admission, they'd never get to see otherwise.

On the other hand, it's presumptuous to think they'd be welcome for the full 3 months.

Expensive flights are at stake here - so tackle this NOW. No point causing a family rift and I think it's reasonable to say to them that you ARE actually working there BUT you completely understand their desire to see the place, so you think maybe a compromise where they stay for a couple of weeks is best - you can dedicate some more spare time to them to bring them places than if they were there all summer.

LegacyUser

Just to be clear, while it sounds exciting and exotic on paper, the destination we go to is remote and absolutely not a holiday destination. We are there for work, and can be working 7 days a week. Evening socializing is still work related (BIL knew this previously but was happy to tag along, though that could put us in an awkward position). We would be willing to compromise and meet up some of weekends during the 3 months (pending work) but without having to give too much away (trying to retain anonymity), unless they plan on tagging along with us to work, it would be difficult for us to entertain anyone.


My only issue with my BIL is that he has a tendency to be quite racist and dismissive of women, and I would hope these traits wouldn't be presented if he were in our part of Asia as we make every effort to respect local culture, again it's difficult to explain what I mean without having visited the area but the BIL has been very dismissive of us explaining polite mannerisms with "well fcuk them if you think I'll bow to them" and the likes. I don't think he's a bad person, just not well travelled.

Neyite

It really sounds like they don't know the region they are planning to stay in - the lack of amenities, the isolation, the local cuisine. You and your husband obviously love it there, considering that you return every year, so maybe by hearing about it, you've made it sound lovely and unspoilt and perfect for a couple's getaway.

Maybe by giving them your itinerary for the duration, rostering them in on household chores, discussing the food that is available to make there - letting them know its up to them if they want to try to source alternatives for their fussy palate, the cost of the rent etc. Give them information about the area, (making sure that the "things to do" are things that they would not be keen on ) the customs, what behaviour is expected of them there.

I would also work on the assumption that they are paying for their own accommodation and source a couple of places for them to enquire about renting. They never asked you if they could stay, and if they tell you that they assumed they could stay with you, just be nice and polite and say "oh no, I'm afraid that wouldn't work for us" and don't elaborate, just offer them the contact information of a couple of other places.

Lastly OP, if they do decide to go, they may get fed up pretty quick and cut their holiday short.

Its a tough situation to be in, but your husband needs to talk to his brother firmly. If you do it, you'll be the bad guy.

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

It really sounds like they don't know the region they are planning to stay in - the lack of amenities, the isolation, the local cuisine. You and your husband obviously love it there, considering that you return every year, so maybe by hearing about it, you've made it sound lovely and unspoilt and perfect for a couple's getaway.

Maybe by giving them your itinerary for the duration, rostering them in on household chores, discussing the food that is available to make there - letting them know its up to them if they want to try to source alternatives for their fussy palate, the cost of the rent etc. Give them information about the area, (making sure that the "things to do" are things that they would not be keen on ) the customs, what behaviour is expected of them there.

I would also work on the assumption that they are paying for their own accommodation and source a couple of places for them to enquire about renting. They never asked you if they could stay, and if they tell you that they assumed they could stay with you, just be nice and polite and say "oh no, I'm afraid that wouldn't work for us" and don't elaborate, just offer them the contact information of a couple of other places.

Lastly OP, if they do decide to go, they may get fed up pretty quick and cut their holiday short.

Its a tough situation to be in, but your husband needs to talk to his brother firmly. If you do it, you'll be the bad guy.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head here with every point youve made.

We haven't really ever said much about it other than "having a great time" small talk, but they haven't researched from us either.

The very fussy palate is another huge concern of course. It isn't a case of popping to tesco to buy something you like. I am probably quite a sensitive easily stressed person and would fear problems arising from issues like this having seen how the new gf has behaved at the suggestion of restaurants other than her favourite being suggested on the 3 occasions we are out with them.

It is a case of us loving the place but it definitely not being everyone's cup of tea, and actually the first couple of trips we made we initially hated many elements of it. It takes speaking the language and being able to communicate with local people and understanding cultural differences to fall in love with it.

I would find myself worrying about them if they went off alone without the language or cultural understanding. And I think it's quite the test for a new relationship, being the first time they'll have ever been away together. Both live at home with parents so only see one another at weekends currently. To take on a trip like this would be huge to a regular traveller, and I guess I've feared having to babysit them hugely throughout.

And my other issue was me being the bad guy. I am willing to compromise but ultimately it's up to my husband to be the bad guy.

I imagine with the cost of flights and given neither are currently working, they could find it hard to afford a change in flights once they have booked them and I imagine that finance would also hinder how much they could do without relying on us providing (free) accommodation and transport. (Not that they have discussed any of that with us yet)

Again thank you for your comments as they are very helpful.

CaraMay

How can they expect to have a three month holiday while on the dole grrrrrrrrr

Toast4532

CaraMay wrote: »

How can they expect to have a three month holiday while on the dole grrrrrrrrr

Agree with this post.

I am unemployed and can't afford a weekend in Dublin let alone three weeks in Asia.

They are being extremely forward, especially the girlfriend.

I would take Neyite's approach on this and go from there. Your husband needs to speak to his brother too, as he is partly to blame.

ibarelycare

You and your husband need to be more assertive. It is presumptuous of your BIL to think he can come over to you for 3 months, but he's never been told otherwise. It's obviously been disussed before, and the only reason he hasn't gone is cos he was single. So now that he has a girlfriend he's taking what he thinks is a great opportunity.

I think you need to have a serious chat with both of them about what the place is like, the food, the transport, the people, etc. Maybe the gf will take it more seriously. Suggest a compromise...they come stay in your region (in rented accommodation) for a week or two, and then they do some travelling. Tell them they'd be wasting their time spending any longer there because there's nothing to do, and you will be busy all the time.




On a side note, I think you should stop concerning yourself so much about a relationship that isn't yours. Your BIL is obviously very excited to be in a new relationship, going by the face that he's keen for you and your husband to spend time with his gf. You come across as a little judgemental of both of them. It's none of your business how often they are each other or how they spend their time together.

LegacyUser

Not being judgemental at all, simply including all the details I feel are relevant to make the case clear.

I think it's very relevant that they haven't spent much time together pre taking on a trip like this. It's one thing going to Australia of any western country and getting to know one another but anyone who's visited somewhere like this will understand. You are guaranteed toilet and tummy troubles, and toilet facilities are at best horrific and I know even when my hubby and I first visited we found new levels to our relationship, and found that tough, never mind being at the stage of still getting to know one another. There's a big difference between a 2 week sun holiday and 3 months together somewhere you wont be randomly be meeting up with fellow irish or even fellow english speakers, imo.

As for how they afford it, both are living at home and have zero expense so I guess they're saving - something I dont agree with but not my business.

I think people expect the living cost to be extremely low in general across Asia but that's not entirely true. Food is cheap if you eat what's available but there are other areas of expense. I don't believe they've even considered vaccinations which are costly.

miamee

Alma90990 wrote: »

Not being judgemental at all, simply including all the details I feel are relevant to make the case clear.

I think it's very relevant that they haven't spent much time together pre taking on a trip like this. It's one thing going to Australia of any western country and getting to know one another but anyone who's visited somewhere like this will understand. You are guaranteed toilet and tummy troubles, and toilet facilities are at best horrific and I know even when my hubby and I first visited we found new levels to our relationship, and found that tough, never mind being at the stage of still getting to know one another. There's a big difference between a 2 week sun holiday and 3 months together somewhere you wont be randomly be meeting up with fellow irish or even fellow english speakers, imo.

As for how they afford it, both are living at home and have zero expense so I guess they're saving - something I dont agree with but not my business.

I think people expect the living cost to be extremely low in general across Asia but that's not entirely true. Food is cheap if you eat what's available but there are other areas of expense. I don't believe they've even considered vaccinations which are costly.

OP you and your husband need to make it very plain to them what to expect when they are there. Take them to a restaurant that serves food from the region you will be going to or as close to it as possible and make sure that they know this is the only food they will have available to them for 3 months.

Explain toilet situations, expected tummy troubles, transport situations, etc in as much detail as you can. Tell them that IF they were to visit you, this is what they need to expect and get used to for the whole time. If neither of them have travelled much before as you said in a previous post, it is likely that they cannot imagine how different a place could be and how it will feel to be away from everything familiar to them.

December2012

You're coming across like you're their mother. Vaccinations, money, relationship, etc - all their business and not yours.

Not wanting to spend time with them is one thing - sticking your nose in things that don't concern you is another.

Big Bag of Chips

You live at the opposite end of the country to them, how do you know they don't spend time alone as a couple?

Are you sure they are planning to go with you for 3 months? To be honest, it sounds like communication from all sides is a bit sketchy. You and your husband are thinking things but not telling them. They might be thinking/planning other things that they aren't telling you.

Best you can all do is sit down, the 4 of you and discuss ALL plans. Otherwise you're all being drip fed little bits and grumbling and complaining behind each others' backs.

You are 4 adults, surely you can have a conversation about this rather than snippets over the phone and things being left to chance?

Edit: I wouldn't blame the gf for being too forward, by the way. It sounds like your BIL told her it was all organised. And to be fair to him, he's been 'sort of' organising it for years now, and you never told him no.

It's just bad communication on all sides that has you at this point now. So it's time to sort it out once and for all.

Why does that seem so difficult?

LegacyUser

TBH I find your attitude very patronising. If you don't want them to stay with you tell them. You don't have to spend time with them when they're there if you don't want to. They are entitled to go wherever they want to visit, it's not YOUR country. It seems to me its more about not wanting other people to taint this perfect little hideaway utopia of yours.

Neither have travelled outside of Spain/the Canaries before, and I can’t imagine they’ll get far.

This is patronising.

Your attitude about them not understanding culture and language and that eating is not the same as at home. If they've never been outside of Europe you're right they probably don't have a clue, but sure no one does until they experience these things for the first time.



I would suggest you allow them to travel with you, spend a night or two with you and then go off travelling and exploring and having their own experience, when people travel for three months they hardly want to just land in one remote spot and stay there, they'll want to see and explore.

If you can't find a way out of it why not work with them on an itinerary that ensures they're doing their own thing for the majority of the trip. Whether they have difficulties with language, culture, food, toilets etc during this time is their own business not yours.

K_P

December2012 wrote: »

You're coming across like you're their mother. Vaccinations, money, relationship, etc - all their business and not yours.

Not wanting to spend time with them is one thing - sticking your nose in things that don't concern you is another.

I think this is a little unfair. These things are all the OP's concern if the BIL and girlfriend are basically moving in with them for three months, without even asking. I think facts like them being a couple just getting to know each other, being fussy eaters, having no respect for the customs of where they're going, not being widely travelled are all completely the OP's business now as she and her husband will be left to deal with the consequences when they're out there.

miamee wrote: »

OP you and your husband need to make it very plain to them what to expect when they are there. Take them to a restaurant that serves food from the region you will be going to or as close to it as possible and make sure that they know this is the only food they will have available to them for 3 months.

Explain toilet situations, expected tummy troubles, transport situations, etc in as much detail as you can. Tell them that IF they were to visit you, this is what they need to expect and get used to for the whole time. If neither of them have travelled much before as you said in a previous post, it is likely that they cannot imagine how different a place could be and how it will feel to be away from everything familiar to them.

Totally agree with this. If they haven't travelled beyond Spain / Canaries, guaranteed they have no concept of just how different things will be. The four of you need to sit down and go through EVERYTHING that they can expect. No English speaking locals, no Centra round the corner full of familiar foods, all the vaccinations they need, all the weird bugs and creepy crawlies they can expect, no home comforts.

With any luck, that'll scare them off. If it doesn't, I think you need to have the more difficult conversation of telling them there's no way they can spend the entire 3 months with you. It's an absolutely outrageous expectation on their part. But do this soon before they book their flights.

LegacyUser

CaraMay wrote: »

How can they expect to have a three month holiday while on the dole grrrrrrrrr

Thats irrelevant. Maybe they had work and have some savings. The op never mentioned their working history (just not working now) and I presume she doesnt know their bank balance.

Give up with the begrudring.

Neyite

OP, you admit you are a bit of a worrier, and right now you are having a good worry when the majority of it, you can do nothing about.

Here is what you can do:
Educate them about the country - give them lists of suggested clothing/footwear/ toiletries/bug spray etc. Give them information on local customs, all the big social faux-pas to avoid, the food available and so on.

Get your husband to make it clear to them that they can stay X amount of time with you, but after that they need to move on. (btw, its unlikely they can go abroad for 3 full months without their dole getting stopped, as SW stopped paying into banks and recipients have to present themselves at a post office weekly and at the dole office monthly (?) to ensure they get paid.


Here is what you cant control:
- His racism - it does not reflect bad on you, just him. And you might find that when he is the ethnic minority he might not be so vocal. It may very well teach him a thing or two.
- You cant control if they don't like the food. Just shrug, say "well, that's what we eat here" and let them off to make their own arrangements. Point in the direction of the nearest food market and tell them to start walking.
- their fledgling relationship surviving the trip. It might. It might not. Either way, you worrying about it is not going to affect it one way or the other.
- how they will support themselves. You say that they live at home with no rent or bills, and get dole. So between the two of them they net almost 500 per week disposable income. This is more than most households have left after paying their bills. Well able to pay their way with this kind of income. They could buy a banger over there if they wanted.

They are adults. And they can always come home early if they hate it.

LegacyUser

I'm very surprized at how judgemental most of these responses are. I cant believe people think it's ok to join someone abroad for 3 months without making sure it's ok with them first! Seems mad not to talk about it if you are at the stage of booking flights. The bil and gf obviously discussed it with each other in detail so seems very rude not to see if thats ok.

Can't believe people would have no probs with someone joining uninvited for 3 months! Surely if someone prefers to be with their hubby alone their entitled to that. Everyone is different and some people don't want spending all of their time with others which is fair enough.

I think most people who replied to this have never been to Asia and don't realise what it's like. I'm guessing op refers to somewhere rural and more real Asia.

I dont know what part op is refering to but in my mid 20s I travelled all over India, china, vietnam, Thailand and several other countries and it was unheard of to go wthout having the vacs for each region. 8/9 yrs ago when I traveled I had to get some vacs I think 6 months in advance with a topup nearer the time of travel so it's really weird and dumb to plan a last minute trip without investigating that. Think op said they go in a few weeks? Would be very risky to visit most of Asia without Vacs.

Even with vaccines I became extremely ill in rural china and needed hospitalization due to eating veg washed in dirty water in a restaurant.that was terrible and while my group were prepared for that with insurance and stuff it's still very stressful.

While it's disgusting all of us soiled ourselves several times during our travels, it was very very common due to food and bugs
So tough if you go through that and can't get a shower facility after.

My first experience in Asia was an English girl crying her eyes outside our hostel because she'd soiled the bed she was sharing with her bf (happens without alcohol, you honestly don't expect it and can wake up not knowing it)- her bf responded very badly when he woke...I was traveling with girls so not sharing beds thankfully but couldn't imagine being in a newish relationship and having that happen!!

Periods were a huge problem with disgusting toilet conditions and lack of personal products available, and while we managed feeling disgusting unclean with a group of girls I lived with thru college it would be weird with a partner I wasn't living with before.

Same goes for all body functions, body hair etc. Unless you are on a beach resort in a nice hotel in a developed area ,it's not very romantic!

Thinks it's important to make sure these guys know all of the above details. I know it's not nice but it's the reality of traveling in Asia.