Puppy nipping/biting a lot!

Jazbee

Our 13 week puppy is almost constantly nipping. From the moment I get up with her at 6am she is at me. She pulls at my pjs/dressing gown/toes. I end up having to remove my pjs from her mouth as she is ripping them. I play with her for a while, then she settles on my lap for a nap. Kids get up at 7 so I put her down. She nips them for a while then back to me. I have now resorted to putting her in her crate while we eat. I have tried the yelping thing, saying no loudly, distracting with a toy (very hard to distract her while shes hyper) she's back to nipping me seconds later. She has broken my skin a couple of times and I'm worried she will do it to the kids. She jumps up at me when she is hyper at tries to nip at any part of me. She runs after the kids to nip them.
They want to play with her but I think they feel a little intimidated when she's in her nippy mood (around 4 times a day). We have started walking her in the last few days. i thought this would tire her out but it seems to have done the opposite. its now 3 1/2 hours since she woke and she is still pulling at my dressing gown. if i stop her she starts on my toes.
She is a lovely thing and i know she will eventually grow out of it, but its how to survive it?! Any advice? Thanks.

tk123

You need to put her in time out - so when she does it you say a bold word enough/too bad etc and put her out for 30 seconds then let her back in (if she barks wait until she stops then bring her back in. You need to be consistant as a household - everybody needs to put her out and no react - no screaming from the kids etc and she'll soon learn.

natnifnolnacs

I know some people will say you should never punish and only reward good behaviour. I agree with that for the most part, but sometimes that just doesn't cut it. We were in a similar situation this time last year, you couldn't walk anywhere without being attacked! The only solution we found was spraying him with water when he does it. He'll be quick enough picking up that he gets a spray when he attacks and for us anyway, the problem was completely solved in days. Now we only have to show him the bottle if he does something very bad and he immediately stops whatever it is he's doing.

It doesn't hurt, it's not cruel, just gives a little cold shock to the system which they need sometimes!

Jazbee

Thanks guys, I'll try the time out. When you say 'out' i presume you mean out of the room we're in?. How long for, a couple of mins? The older two kids will be able to follow through, but not the youngest one (he's 3..has special needs). He does scream when she does anything, but doesn't initiate any contact with her. I hope with the rest of us doing it it will be enough.

DBB

Hi OP,
I think it's important that you know from this point on that qualified trainers and behaviourists will not, ever, use water sprays in the name of training. There are a number of reasons for this. First of all, in light of the fact that there are more ethical ways to fix unwanted behaviours, using sprays is not acceptable because it is considered by those who quantify these things to be too unpleasant for the pup. It's not the worst thing that could happen, but that doesn't make it acceptable all the same.
Using unpleasant or aversive techniques can backfire badly: I have seen adult dogs still cowering when they see ANY bottle being picked up by a human, I have seen dogs become aggressive to kids who are innocently playing with water pistols or hoses, I have seen dogs who attack the shower head whilst being bathed. I have seen water sprays being horribly abused on dogs by kids when their parents aren't watching. Is it worth any of this potential fall-out, when gentler techniques are available and effective? They may take a little longer, but your relationship with your pup can come to no harm if you leave aversives out of it. I know people will say "it worked for me", but the problem is, it goes wrong for people too, and that, coupled with the fact that experts will not use it nor advise it, should speak volumes.
To save me writing it all out again, here's a copy of a post I wrote a while back, which fleshed out the tip given by tk123 above, which is considered by qualified behaviourists to be an acceptable form of "correction" due to it not being physically aversive:

OP, this is normal puppy stuff, which you can work through, but as with every pup, it's going to take time and careful management where small kids are concerned.
First, the pup needs to be contained so that the kids can move about without pup getting unsupervised access to their feet. A crate or puppy playpen is ideal. These should not be used as prisons, just as a management system for short periods.
Biting ankles is reinforced when people scream and screech when pup does it, when they wave their foot around with pup hanging on, or when they run away with pup chasing. All of these things are hilarious for pup, so as long as these keep happening, pup will continue to target ankles.
So, start this with adults. When pup starts to bite your ankles, stand stock still, and say "ouch", just like you do when pup bites hands, noses etc. Pretend your clothes/shoes are your skin. If pup ignores the ouch, and he probably will, say "enough" calmly but firmly, then place him calmly into his playpen or crate. Leave him there for 30 seconds, ignore the inevitable whining.
Then let him out and continue what you were doing. If he targets your ankles again, do exactly the same thing.
You will have to do this again and again, repetition and consistency are key. Do not lose your temper or become exasperated. Eventually, when you say "ouch", the pup will recognise this as a precursor to being put on a Time Out, and the biting will diminish.
When you have this fairly well established with adults, you can now let pup have more free time around the kids. But, when he targets their feet, you say "ouch", and if ignored, as above, say "enough", and into a 30 sec Time Out he goes. If the kids are old enough, they can do the "ouch" themselves, but you do it on behalf of smaller kids. The pup, now that he's gone through the initial learning process with adults first, will "get it" more quickly with the kids.
The kids might want to wear wellies or boots at first, so that pup doesn't hurt them during training.
If you're not available to act as the "ouch agent" for your kids, don't allow pup have free access to the kids. Into his crate with a nice, stuffed Kong toy with him instead.
On leading him into his crate, it's best to have a string, ribbon, or short lead attached to his collar so you can lead him to his crate without manhandling or having to plead with him. But always take the lead/string/ribbon off when pup is not supervised.

tk123

natnifnolnacs wrote: »

It doesn't hurt, it's not cruel, just gives a little cold shock to the system which they need sometimes!

I don't agree - instilling fear into a dog especially a pup is cruel imo. It doesn't matter how you do it - if it's just water or smacking it or shaking cans of pennies in it's face it's cruel. You're teaching your pup to fear something probably for the rest of it's life and if a dog is really afriad it's going to lash out. It's also lazy ownership.

Jazbee

Thanks DBB & tk123 we have started that. I had thought of time out in her crate before but was worried about it becoming a negative place for her. But she has been put in time out 3 times since we started and she has just gone in for her nap by herself. At the moment one of us lifts her in. Will find something to attach to her collar to lead her in. Don't want to use her short lead as we have just started walking her and that is what we use, she might think she is going for a walk and get confused?

I wouldn't use water on her but thanks anyway for the reasoning behind it.

Hopefully the timeouts will work.

DBB

I wouldn't worry too much about the association with the lead, as it's meant to be left on her, trailing behind her so that you can quickly and gently lead her to the time out zone. Even a short length of ribbon will do. But again, never leave anything attached to her collar unless you're there to supervise.
There was always a "thing" that time outs shouldn't happen in the crate, but some trainers gave cast doubt on whether it does any harm. They use the example of how human kids can be sent to their rooms (a form of time out) without learning to hate their room! Perhaps this is a tad anthropomorphic, but I think there'ssomething to it! Nevertheless, a utility room can also be used, and you also have the option of leaving the room yourself if that suits better. But beware that the pup may find ways to entertain herself in the room you've just left!

Jazbee

Thanks for that. Will steal some ribbon from my daughter Will use the crate as we've no utility. I suppose I send the kids to time out in the hall and they don't hate it! Lol! Got some lovely cuddles when she woke up, makes it all worth while!

natnifnolnacs

tk123 wrote: »

I don't agree .... It's also lazy ownership.

I'd thank you to not pass judgement without knowing any/all of the facts. I don't want to derail this thread at all but some posters on this board can be very quick to criticise without knowing the full story.

As I mentioned at the beginning of my post, for the most part I agree with the techniques mentioned and we tried it for weeks with no improvement. I realise now a few errors we made while trying it, but that can't be helped now. We did the best we could and I can definitely say at no point was it lazy ownership, but thanks for labelling me as such, very kind of you.

tk123

natnifnolnacs wrote: »

I'd thank you to not pass judgement without knowing any/all of the facts. I don't want to derail this thread at all but some posters on this board can be very quick to criticise without knowing the full story.

As I mentioned at the beginning of my post, for the most part I agree with the techniques mentioned and we tried it for weeks with no improvement. I realise now a few errors we made while trying it, but that can't be helped now. We did the best we could and I can definitely say at no point was it lazy ownership, but thanks for labelling me as such, very kind of you.

Are you still going to show your dog the bottle when it does something wrong out of interest?

natnifnolnacs

tk123 wrote: »

Are you still going to show your dog the bottle when it does something wrong out of interest?

Our fella used to get quite frenzied at times, whites of the eyes stuff and nothing would stop him once he got into one of these fits. The only things you could do was leave him wear himself out (which either meant being nipped a lot, or having to buy a new lead if it was that he attacked) or give him a quick squirt to bring him back to reality. Again, I know people would recommend the timeout for this behaviour, but when he was like that, there was no moving him easily. It would generally take so long to put him into the kitchen that the reason wouldn't have been clear to him, which would never have worked. We tried that solution for ages but were getting nowhere with it.

To answer your question, yes I would use it again. It is a last resort thing, but if he got into one of those fits again (which he thankfully seems to have grown out of) Given the circumstances we had to deal with, we exhausted all other options to the best of our abilities and then went with this which worked very well. I have used it once in recent months as he has grown fond of barking at our neighbours kid. I can completely understand that if it was used frequently it could lead to other behavioural problems but used responsibly, yes I would use it again.

And just in case you were wondering, he is a perfectly healthy, happy dog who absolutely loves water and goes swimming at every opportunity.

Now, hopefully we can stop derailing this thread!

Sorry to the OP

I am pie

I think squirting water at a dog when it is barking at a child isn't helping that dog form positive associations with children.

In the most non judgemental way possible, please re consider doing this for the sake of the dog. You are creating a small possibility for the dog to have an adverse reaction to the neighbours kid.

natnifnolnacs

I am pie wrote: »

I think squirting water at a dog when it is barking at a child isn't helping that dog form positive associations with children.

In the most non judgemental way possible, please re consider doing this for the sake of the dog. You are creating a small possibility for the dog to have an adverse reaction to the neighbours kid.

That;s a very good point, thanks for that. Our fella seems to hate things with wheels so when the young lad goes past on his scooter, the dog goes cracked. I just need to have a chat with his Mam about it and get him to go past slowly a few times and get the dog used to it, hopefully he'll be fine then!