Lightweight stocks/rifles

ejg

In another thread the question came up how light stocks or hunting rifles can be made. Of course I can't answer that.
For myself I would like a rifle to be able to put 5 to 10 shots in 4" at 400m maybe even at 500m, be as short as possible and as light as possible.

We don't make any rifle bits except stocks, maybe the odd bolt knob and some bedding. Our take is that the influence that a stock has on a rifles performance gets more important the lighter a rifle is. Recoil is sharper, possibly more muzzle flip and torque or rotational movement of the rifle.
We are experimenting with very light stocks and are still getting good performance. I have read that others have made lighter stocks than ours but have not had one in my hands. We have however had many heavier composite stocks in our workshop that had failed to hold up in the field.

Recently we made two projects with light weight in mind. In both cases we used standard actions and custom barrels. First on a tactical orientated rifle with a 308 medium Palma barrel cut to 20" and fitted with a moderator.
We made one of our E-Tac's with adjustable cheek with more or less the standard amount of graphite just saved on resin and used lighter fillers. The stock weighs 828 grams including the recoil pad, clamps for adjustable cheek piece and flush cups for the sling. Total weight of the rifle including the 6.5-20x50 Zeiss conquest, rail, mounts and moderator is 4.4kg. No bipod)


4 shot off the hood of the car after drop adjustment. 470m



The second rifle was my sons first rifle, a 243 Howa fitted with a Bergara sporter barrel 20". My son Peter not only did the lay-up of his stock but also mine as he is the expert for the light weights. His concentration level is unreal. The Bergara Barrel is quite heavy compared to a normal sporter as the first 3-4" is a larger diameter. The Howa action is about 60 grams heavier than a Remmy SA. The new Howa AICS bottom metal is very light but I don't have the weight in my head. The 5 shot mag is the same for 308 or 243. Total weight of the complete stock with "Kaiser" grip swivel studs and recoil pad is 580 grams. The complete rifle weighs 3.8kg including moderator, 6.5-20x50 Zeiss Conquest. (without bipod) .
Rifle shoots really well but we have not done any serious grouping tests yet.



I know this is not the very light weights that some expect however we might ask more of the rifles capabilities.
The stock is only one part of the rifle. For a light overall package all components must be looked at. An ergonomic stock that has a complete weight under 600 grams, is stiff and sturdy requires a bit of engineering.
Dominic Byrne fitted the barrels on these rifles, very happy with his work and I think we are lucky in Ireland to have a good choice of rifle smiths who actually get things done in short time.


edi

tomcat220t

Hi ejg, 580 grams stock:cool::cool:.
Remington s/a been a smaller foot print would it be possible to get that stock down to that weight too?
How light can your stocks be made if it had to happen ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

ejg

Tomcat,
the Howa is very similar to the Remmy stock.
We are pretty sure that these stocks will hold up hill hunting conditions with plenty falling around etc. We will test them well in the coming season.
A competition stock would be a different approach, one would look at what is really needed. Rather have a part of a stock crack or break once after plenty use than carry too much weight and possibly loose comps because of it. One would have to find the limits. (A F1 engine that never breaks is probably built too heavy.)
The F/TR stocks we made were made with large amounts of carbon between the action and bipod attachment to make a very torsion stiff connection. The action area was made with fillers that transfer the heat well. I hope well invested weight. Majority of the weight in the F/TR stocks is very high positioned which is what we wanted and what also separates them from other stocks.

To answer your question, I guess one could make a Rem SA stock for competition purposes complete around 400 grams which would still be very stiff. Certain areas of the stock could quite easily be punctured with say a screw driver, barbed wire etc.
edi

tomcat220t

Hi ejg, that answers my question ...400 grams:eek::eek::cool:.
Thats incredible weight saving over any light hunting stocks out there .
So the outer shell would be a little thin but i could live with that if it was stiff :cool:.
Pm sent !
Regards,Tomcat.

It wasn't me!

I think it's Brown Precision offer a 1lb synthetic. Can't recall off the top of my head what they claimed to use in it, but 400 grams is another improvement again on that. Very nice.

tomcat220t

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I think it's Brown Precision offer a 1lb synthetic. Can't recall off the top of my head what they claimed to use in it, but 400 grams is another improvement again on that. Very nice.

Hi It wasnt me ,
problem i see with some of the advertised light weight stocks is the lighter they get the more flimsy and narrow they become .
Ejg stocks are still full size ..so to speak,even though they are so light .
Regrads,Tomcat.

It wasn't me!

I've seen the Brown in photos, though not held one, and they do look properly sized. Compact in that the fore-end isn't bulky or overly long, but not small either. I'd be really interested to see one in person and see what a stock that light feels like on a rifle. Lightest I've seen was a McMillan Edge which comes in around 22oz. as I recall and that felt great and fit nicely on a very lightweight rifle.

tomcat220t

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I've seen the Brown in photos, though not held one, and they do look properly sized. Compact in that the fore-end isn't bulky or overly long, but not small either. I'd be really interested to see one in person and see what a stock that light feels like on a rifle. Lightest I've seen was a McMillan Edge which comes in around 22oz. as I recall and that felt great and fit nicely on a very lightweight rifle.

Hi It wasnt me ,McMillan Edge i saw was narrow and shaped very like a cheap remington plastic stock but lighter .Did not really like it !
Different opinions i guess .
Regards ,Tomcat.

It wasn't me!

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi It wasnt me ,McMillan Edge i saw was narrow and shaped very like a cheap remington plastic stock but lighter .Did not really like it !
Different opinions i guess .
Regards ,Tomcat.

I definitely have a preference for slim fore-ends and neat, open pistol grips, despite having big hands, so the likes of the McMillan Edge Compact suits me really nicely. Worked really well in the build it was part of too, handled recoil nicely and made shooting easy, despite the lightweight rifle.

clivej

I was in with Dominic Byrne twice last week doing some tyre kicking.
Bought a new 'tyre' as well. ;);)

Looking at Dom's custom work and Edi's stocks, what a perfect match and all top class work.

ormondprop

clivej wrote: »

I was in with Dominic Byrne twice last week doing some tyre kicking.
Bought a new 'tyre' as well. ;);)

Looking at Dom's custom work and Edi's stocks, what a perfect match and all top class work.

Come on clive you can't say something like that without telling us what kind of tyre you bought

Did you go custom or factory?

Vegeta

LOVE the Howa. The mix of engineering & manufacturing skill, fit for purpose specs and aesthetics really floats my boat. Great work as always edi

hedzball

I get to see Edi's work on a regular basis (and generally annoy him) as I am living in the locality and grown up with his sons (mainly hurting ourselves on mountainbikes through the years but I turned to motorbikes in order to find something safer)

I have held Peters stock (the second picture) in my hands and seen alot more of the work that goes on in PSE.

You will not believe the quality,time,design,testing and effort that goes into their stocks..

And the ample supply of surfboards to trip over.

Truly stunning custom pieces costing half of what they really should..

'hdz

ejg

Another point is, what's the weight when the stock is on the rifle? Sometimes deep bedding with alu/steel or titanium epoxy adds quite a bit of weight. Also alu or steel pillars add weight. Especially with conventional ultra light stocks this is essential as the fill in the inlet area is not compression resistant enough on it's own. We have integrated carbon pillars and carbon cross members under the action area, as well as the recoil lug area which is encased in Carbon which leads into the stock shell. The skim bedding that is required uses very little epoxy meaning the weight of the stock won't increase by much, maybe 20-30 grams after fitting.
Comparing weights one must also check if a recoil pad, swivel studs are fitted.

For hunting purposes we would not be really happy to make a stock under 500 grams, but of course one could try and see what actually happens or if, where it fails.
A competition stock, at least benchrest or similar will have less bashing around and can be made lighter.
edi

patsat

I have one of Edi's hunter stocks on my T3 .25-06 and I'm a big fan.

I used the lightweight stocks to my advantage in a different way... Because the stocks are so light you can afford to add weight to the stock where you want it. So while my stock would still be considered light, the majority of its weight is high on the comb of the stock. Gives a lovely balance to the rifle and helps manage recoil better.

Having held a good few of these stocks I simply could not recommend them enough, I have yet to be more impressed by any other stocks available for rifles.

clivej

ormondprop wrote: »

Come on clive you can't say something like that without telling us what kind of tyre you bought

Did you go custom or factory?

Just a little auld & old S&W 22A 1.
Now the pimping begins yet again.

lefthooker

clivej wrote: »

Looking at Dom's custom work and Edi's stocks, what a perfect match and all top class work.

+1. Couldn't agree more.
I have a custom built .204 by Dominic sitting in a custom Etac by Edi. Exquisite craftsmanship by two gentlemen.

lb1981

should be picking up my tikka. 243 with pse stock (if the license is in the post like i was told )from Dom on thursday.Sound to deal with and does super work.

One shot on kill

lb1981 wrote: »

should be picking up my tikka. 243 with pse stock (if the license is in the post like i was told )from Dom on thursday.Sound to deal with and does super work.

Love to see a photo of that when you get it.