Wendler 531?

dor843088

Thinking about jumping on 531 after I get back from my holiday in about 4 weeks and was thinkin about buyin the book to read while Im there. The book is around 40 or 50 quid anyone read it and thought it was worth it or not? I know I can jump on the program without reading the book but if its worth it ill get it. Still undecided on a lot of things about the routine, accessory work and the use of pause bench or not etc. Id be interested to hear from any one using 531 at the moment also what you think about it ?progress made ? Your choice or accessory work?

Thanks

deadlybuzzman

Definitely not worth that much. I got it for free, its a pretty short concise read, the main things I got from it was to pick a plan, stick to it and focus on the big lifts and dont waste time on things that dont matter.
If I had to buy a book I'd probably the the cube

dor843088

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Definitely not worth that much. I got it for free, its a pretty short concise read, the main things I got from it was to pick a plan, stick to it and focus on the big lifts and dont waste time on things that dont matter.
If I had to buy a book I'd probably the the cube

Another boards user actually emailed me a copy an hour or so ago :-D. Iv heard good things so ill give it a read .

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

I ran a couple of cycles of it earlier this year using a basic "boring but big" assistance template. It's like any other progressive overload template, go balls to wall on the X+ sets (until technical breakdown - hat tip to Hanley!).

Initially you might feel like there isn't enough volume in it but just tweak the poundage a little so that the 3x5s and 3x3s are taxing enough.

What's your current weight / maxes?

dor843088

Aarav Ambitious Mailman wrote: »

I ran a couple of cycles of it earlier this year using a basic "boring but big" assistance template. It's like any other progressive overload template, go balls to wall on the X+ sets (until technical breakdown - hat tip to Hanley!).

Initially you might feel like there isn't enough volume in it but just tweak the poundage a little so that the 3x5s and 3x3s are taxing enough.

What's your current weight / maxes?

Not too worried about volume on the main lifts but Im wondering if I should drop some of the fluff like calf arm and side delt work . I guess it just comes down to preferences. Im around 76kg. Bench is 115kg touch and go, squat 160kg , deadlift 190kg fairly easily I need to improve my grip its what lets me down.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

I wouldn't worry about the prescribed assistance work, pick some movements that will help with your weak points on the main lifts and make sure to add something to balance out the pushing from the bench and press.

dor843088

Aarav Ambitious Mailman wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the prescribed assistance work, pick some movements that will help with your weak points on the main lifts and make sure to add something to balance out the pushing from the bench and press.

Ah yea rows and pull downs on every upper day for sure. What about pause bench should I always use it or move more weight without it?

runawaybishop

I'm on cycle 5 of variation B of the BBB routine (do squats as assistance on dl day, do bench as assistance on press day and vice versa) and have seen all my lifts increase the last 2 cycles.I am going to failure on the last set though, rather than just doing 5/3/1. My bench dropped a bit on cycle 2/3 but it was back up on cycle 4 and progressing since.

I'm not sure if buying the book is worth it, wendler has discussed and explained the routine online in plenty of places. Its also easy enough to make/download a spreadsheet to track everything and modify the weights. I like that the numbers are self regulating from week to week and cycle to cycle.

dor843088

runawaybishop wrote: »

I'm on cycle 5 of variation B of the BBB routine (do squats as assistance on dl day, do bench as assistance on press day and vice versa) and have seen all my lifts increase the last 2 cycles.I am going to failure on the last set though, rather than just doing 5/3/1. My bench dropped a bit on cycle 2/3 but it was back up on cycle 4 and progressing since.

I'm not sure if buying the book is worth it, wendler has discussed and explained the routine online in plenty of places. Its also easy enough to make/download a spreadsheet to track everything and modify the weights. I like that the numbers are self regulating from week to week and cycle to cycle.

Iv a copy of the book im gonna read while on holiday and jump on the program when im back . My bench has completely stalled for a while now so thats why I chose this programme for its progression plan cos at the moment its just grind my teeth and add weight . Probably asking for an injury.

runawaybishop

dor843088 wrote: »

Iv a copy of the book im gonna read while on holiday and jump on the program when im back . My bench has completely stalled for a while now so thats why I chose this programme for its progression plan cos at the moment its just grind my teeth and add weight . Probably asking for an injury.

I moved over to 5/3/1 after my bench stalled (and because i was bored of every day squats) and i was initially concerned there wasn't enough volume. I think my problem really was that I was being a pussy and not eating enough. With the BBB variation doing 5x10 at 70% of training max seems enough as assistance. Now i look forward to the heavy 3rd week to see where my lifts are at.

dor843088

runawaybishop wrote: »

I moved over to 5/3/1 after my bench stalled (and because i was bored of every day squats) and i was initially concerned there wasn't enough volume. I think my problem really was that I was being a pussy and not eating enough. With the BBB variation doing 5x10 at 70% of training max seems enough as assistance. Now i look forward to the heavy 3rd week to see where my lifts are at.

Do you just add the prescribed weight or make bigger jumps at all?

runawaybishop

dor843088 wrote: »

Do you just add the prescribed weight or make bigger jumps at all?

The weights increase based on your 1 Rep Max, which is autocalced after every week. In the BoringButBig variation you are supposed to do 5/3/1 reps in week 1/2/3 (so a big heavy single in week 3) which leaves you enough in the tank to knock out your assistance work. You can instead (this is what I'm doing currently) go to failure in your final set which in effect means you attempt to set a PR and so adjust your 1RM up for next month.

dor843088

runawaybishop wrote: »

The weights increase based on your 1 Rep Max, which is autocalced after every week. In the BoringButBig variation you are supposed to do 5/3/1 reps in week 1/2/3 (so a big heavy single in week 3) which leaves you enough in the tank to knock out your assistance work. You can instead (this is what I'm doing currently) go to failure in your final set which in effect means you attempt to set a PR and so adjust your 1RM up for next month.

Cool thats what I was wondering . I take it you work off your actual one rep max rather than 90% of it like is suggested for the first cycle.

runawaybishop

dor843088 wrote: »

Cool thats what I was wondering . I take it you work off your actual one rep max rather than 90% of it like is suggested for the first cycle.

I left it at 90% of my max, wendler reckons this is grand.

Jim Wendler wrote:

"Start too light" refers to my insistence that the prescribed loads are calculated off of 90% of the lifter's 1RM. If your 1RM in the bench is 315, why calculate loads off a 1RM of 285?
...
then he insults people that don't agree

My assistance work i do at 60% of training max for the 5*10 stuff.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2013/05/boring-but-big/
^^ I'm doing example B because i prefer doing the lifts x2 a week.

Sangre

5/3/1 will improve your 3-7RM but it won't make a significant dent on your 1RM. What is the goal? Size or strength.

runawaybishop

Sangre wrote: »

5/3/1 will improve your 3-7RM but it won't make a significant dent on your 1RM. What is the goal? Size or strength.

Why do you feel it wont have a significant effect on someone's 1rm? Increasing your 3rm, for example, has a direct effect on your 1rm.

dor843088

Sangre wrote: »

5/3/1 will improve your 3-7RM but it won't make a significant dent on your 1RM. What is the goal? Size or strength.

Not sure if you're correct there buddy strength should go up in all rep ranges. My primary goal is strength although I will be doing some hyper work as well . Hqvent decided yet what or how much.

LuckyLloyd

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why do you feel it wont have a significant effect on someone's 1rm? Increasing your 3rm, for example, has a direct effect on your 1rm.

dor843088 wrote: »

Not sure if you're correct there buddy strength should go up in all rep ranges. My primary goal is strength although I will be doing some hyper work as well . Hqvent decided yet what or how much.

He's not 'feeling' it, he's merely restating the experiences of countless trainees who have followed the system for an extended period. Whatever the theory behind the program, I have read many logs where someone has made certain types of progress without a huge improvement on their 1 rep max lift.

runawaybishop

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's not 'feeling' it, he's merely restating the experiences of countless trainees who have followed the system for an extended period. Whatever the theory behind the program, I have read many logs where someone has made certain types of progress without a huge improvement on their 1 rep max lift.

I'm just asking for more info is all

dor843088

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's not 'feeling' it, he's merely restating the experiences of countless trainees who have followed the system for an extended period. Whatever the theory behind the program, I have read many logs where someone has made certain types of progress without a huge improvement on their 1 rep max lift.

Im sure they're are plenty of people on plenty of programmes who dont make any progress and they're are plenty of reasons for this except the programme which they happen to be on , fatigue hydration motivation nutrition etc etc. Iv made it this far without a progression scheme so on wendler my 1rm is going up without question . I havent heard much negativity about the programme at all tbh.

Sangre

dor843088 wrote: »

Id be interested to hear from any one using 531 at the moment also what you think about it ?progress made ? Your choice or accessory work?

Sangre wrote: »

5/3/1 will improve your 3-7RM but it won't make a significant dent on your 1RM. What is the goal? Size or strength.

dor843088 wrote: »

Not sure if you're correct there buddy strength should go up in all rep ranges. My primary goal is strength although I will be doing some hyper work as well . Hqvent decided yet what or how much.

dor843088 wrote: »

Iv made it this far without a progression scheme so on wendler my 1rm is going up without question . I havent heard much negativity about the programme at all tbh.

You don't seem that interested in hearing about 531 tbh.

To clarify, I did 531 and BBB for about a year (not BBB for full year). Could I have been better gains on 531? Probably, but I still don't think the programme was optimal for maximum strength.

I don't think it suited me as an intermediate lifter. Similar complaints were made by Kevpants and Hanley, both experienced power lifters.

dor843088

Sangre wrote: »

You don't seem that interested in hearing about 531 tbh.

To clarify, I did 531 and BBB for about a year (not BBB for full year). Could I have been better gains on 531? Probably, but I still don't think the programme was optimal for maximum strength.

I don't think it suited me as an intermediate lifter. Similar complaints were made by Kevpants and Hanley, both experienced power lifters.

I just didnt get how your 3-7 rep range strength would increase without your 1rm increasing . Didnt make sense to me and still doesnt thats all .

Darkest Horse

It'll improve your 1rms if you stick to the formula, no question.

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

I just didnt get how your 3-7 rep range strength would increase without your 1rm increasing . Didnt make sense to me and still doesnt thats all .

Because moving <90% and >90% are entirely different animals.

Henners stubbornly stuck to it for over a year too and saw very little in the way of gainzz either IIRC.

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

It'll improve your 1rms if you stick to the formula, no question.

False.

dor843088

I dunno im of the beleif that unless your an elite lifter or somewhere near your strength potential and your on a strength based programme with your calories nutrition rest etc on point then there's no excuse not to be getting stronger. Your not going to hit a pr every time you train but I would certainly expect to be making some progress and if not I wouldn't be too quick to blame the programme since its been so successful .Although I agree it wont suit everyone.

Darkest Horse

Hanley wrote: »

False.

No, not false.

Blacktie.

Hanley wrote: »

Because moving <90% and >90% are entirely different animals.

Henners stubbornly stuck to it for over a year too and saw very little in the way of gainzz either IIRC.

Aren't most strength programmes built around 3-8RM as you can't hit >90% of your 1RM with any kind of frequency?

Hanley

Darkest Horse wrote: »

No, not false.

You been reading this thread?

Hanley

Blacktie. wrote: »

Aren't most strength programmes built around 3-8RM as you can't hit >90% of your 1RM with any kind of frequency?

I didn't say you had to consistently move over 90% in training did I?

I said the percentages, and particularly the volume on 5/3/1 aren't sufficient to prepare you to do it.

Remember, 90% in 5/3/1 is only REALLY 81%. And the volume is tiny.

Dunno how that'll ever have a positve effect on even the most moderately trained ppl.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Hanley wrote: »

I didn't say you had to consistently move over 90% in training did I?

I said the percentages, and particularly the volume on 5/3/1 aren't sufficient to prepare you to do it.

Remember, 90% in 5/3/1 is only REALLY 81%. And the volume is tiny.

Dunno how that'll ever have a positve effect on even the most moderately trained ppl.

This is the reason when I ran it I found the volume really low until I tweaked the starting weights for a cycle to be closer to 100% of my true, balls to the wall, 1RM at the time.

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

I didn't say you had to consistently move over 90% in training did I?

I said the percentages, and particularly the volume on 5/3/1 aren't sufficient to prepare you to do it.

Remember, 90% in 5/3/1 is only REALLY 81%. And the volume is tiny.

Dunno how that'll ever have a positve effect on even the most moderately trained ppl.

81% only applies to the first cycle . Theres 8 sets a week on all the major lifts in there not including assistance work you dont think its enough?

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

81% only applies to the first cycle . Theres 8 sets a week on all the major lifts in there not including assistance work you dont think its enough?

8 sets. Whoopdidoo. What percentage are those 8 sets at?

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

8 sets. Whoopdidoo. What percentage are those 8 sets at?

You just said in a previous post you dont have to consistently lift > 90% which is true you could increase your 1rm if you never lifted more than 50% true or not?

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

You just said in a previous post you dont have to consistently lift > 90% which is true you could increase your 1rm if you never lifted more than 50% true or not?

Do you want to debate how I said something, or what I'm saying?

If you can't get your head around what's going on her stop trying to argue and let the powerlifters (who've done it) talk about the powerlifting program.

Don't worry about answering my question or anything either. I already know the answer. And the answer is 8 sets of low %s in a week will do jack **** for strength gains.

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

You just said in a previous post you dont have to consistently lift > 90% which is true you could increase your 1rm if you never lifted more than 50% true or not?

And id say no. If you're anything other than a raw beginner, that'll never happen.

siochain

531 (boring but big) is very good if you stick to it, finish on a metcon eat and sleep well.

If you have a structured program, know how it lift right, eat and sleep well you will make gains. It's not rocket science ......

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

Do you want to debate how I said something, or what I'm saying?

If you can't get your head around what's going on her stop trying to argue and let the powerlifters (who've done it) talk about the powerlifting program.

Don't worry about answering my question or anything either. I already know the answer. And the answer is 8 sets of low %s in a week will do jack **** for strength gains.

How come you didnt tqke one look at this programme and realise straight away it was bull**** then ? You ran it didnt you ? For how long? I guess running it bastardising it and making no gains makes you an unquestionable expert right?

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

And id say no. If you're anything other than a raw beginner, that'll never happen.

I guess you dont beleive in dynamic effort work for powerlifters then no?

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

I guess you dont beleive in dynamic effort work for powerlifters then no?

Wow.. Dynamic work isn't done in isolation. It's done combined with Max effort work - work above 90%.

What point is it you're trying to make?

Hanley

dor843088 wrote: »

How come you didnt tqke one look at this programme and realise straight away it was bull**** then ? You ran it didnt you ? For how long? I guess running it bastardising it and making no gains makes you an unquestionable expert right?

There was so much online hype that I tried it against my better judgement.

For a man who was considering buying the book to find out more less than a week ago you've developed a SERIOUS emotional attachment to it.

Is everything ok?

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

Wow.. Dynamic work isn't done in isolation. It's done combined with Max effort work - work above 90%.

What point is it you're trying to make?

My point is you can increase your one rep max if you never worked at 90% .your point was theres not enough of tthis work in the program my point was its obviously not necessary.

dor843088

Hanley wrote: »

There was so much online hype that I tried it against my better judgement.

For a man who was considering buying the book to find out more less than a week ago you've developed a SERIOUS emotional attachment to it.

Is everything ok?

No attachment, just think its a bit much to be told to leave the powerlifting talk to the powerlifters and dont ask questions.That type of remark will always get a reaction from me . My opinion is just because you ran it and made no gains doesnt mean the program is crap or has something wrong with it . Maybe it just didnt suit YOU? It seems to habe given plenty of people great strength gains and ol Mr Wendler probably knows more about strength training than everyone on this forum put together so who am I or you to say his program is **** .