Private School arms volunteers/Georgia school talks down school shooter

MadsL

Well, it was met with incredulity at the time of Sandy Hook but...a Christian school in Arkansas has announced that they will be patrolled by volunteer armed security patrols this school year.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2621874066001/private-school-arms-staff-with-concealed-weapons/?playlist_id=2114913880001

Does an active shooter find somewhere else to shoot when met by a sign indicating armed patrols?

Lapin

The price of 'yokes' must be at an all time low.

zenno

I don't think so. If a person wants to do serious damage or kill, and they are from the school themselves, then they will know how to monitor the security team and location and their time breaks and what-not and to be honest, if someone is on a death-wish i don't think a few folks in uniform armed are going to stop the person.

Jester252

Fight fire with fire works sometimes. Also what has religion have to do with it?

MadsL

Here's the school bookkeeper talking down an active shooter in Georgia; news just in. 911 call is incredible, she sounds so calm.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/georgia-school-shooting-how-bookkeeper-helped-prevent-a-tragedy-20130823-2sf3d.html

MadsL

Jester252 wrote: »

Fight fire with fire works sometimes. Also what has religion have to do with it?

It is a private Christian school that's all. Nothing meant by the reference.

MadsL

Jester252 wrote: »

Fight fire with fire works sometimes. Also what has religion have to do with it?

I think they gave them guns

zenno

Jester252 wrote: »

Fight fire with fire works sometimes. Also what has religion have to do with it?

Not most times as we seen what can happen with this scenario from under the dome series, it didn't work out that well.

IvySlayer

Going to school being surrounded by guns must be awful.

smellmepower

Don't most American schools have armed security guards/police?know they definitely have them in Baltimore public schools.

MadsL

So, I guess in light of this Georgia school we just need more Southern women with cojones the size of grapefruit and unshakeable faith in Jesus.

Give that women a medal , now.

MadsL

smellmepower wrote: »

Don't most American schools have armed security guards/police?know they definitely have them in Baltimore public schools.

Apparently so. I didn't know that.

Baltimore County Public Schools have resource officers who work at the schools that are in full uniform, including guns.

Mardy Bum

MadsL wrote: »

Does an active shooter find somewhere else to shoot when met by a sign indicating armed patrols?

No seeing as most of them kill themselves or end up dead anyway.

'Merika

MadsL

Mardy Bum wrote: »

No seeing as most of them kill themselves or end up dead anyway.

The Georgia one is alive, did you not listen to the 911.

'Merika

Yeah, getting old that one. I think I saw a post where we agreed to stop that.

Mardy Bum

MadsL wrote: »

The Georgia one is alive, did you not listen to the 911.



Yeah, getting old that one. I think I saw a post where we agreed to stop that.

A person who has decided to shoot a school up will shoot a school up regardless. An action like this does not come from a rational human being. You do not get to that point in thinking and then decide not too. They may choose another school or they may choose to go on and battle it out.

A relaxed educational environment should not be turned into a prison. I pity the teachers in it.

Jester252

zenno wrote: »

Not most times as we seen what can happen with this scenario from under the dome series, it didn't work out that well.

That why I used the word sometimes. A gun is a tool used to commit crimes and the only tool to combat a gun is a gun. If you were a parent with kids attending what are major shooting location (Sandy Hook, Columbine etc.) would you not want to protect them? Guns in school is not a permanent solution but its a temporary solution. Granted it could backfire but it could also deter anyone attacking the school.

zenno

Turning the school into a police-station/prison entrance is all good and well but an educational system put in place in regards to bullying of vulnerable children would be better i think.

Spend some money on the education of all these children/teenagers and also monitoring systems to make sure a child/teenager is not bullied to the stage of mental breakdown of which decides to go to school the next day and shoot and kill them.

The money could be spent in this way to educate and have on-board-school initiatives and special abodes inside the school to deal with these children/teenagers, actually stopping an escalation to such a scenario from happening in the first place, instead of sending the security armed forces in to deal with it.

I think the heads of some of these schools need further education themselves, they choose the armed way too easily instead of looking closely and dealing head on with troubled children/teenagers firstly.

MadsL

Mardy Bum wrote: »

A person who has decided to shoot a school up will shoot a school up regardless. An action like this does not come from a rational human being. You do not get to that point in thinking and then decide not too. They may choose another school or they may choose to go on and battle it out.

A relaxed educational environment should not be turned into a prison. I pity the teachers in it.

Should they disconnect the fire alarms too, as they disrupt the relaxed educational environment?

Mardy Bum

MadsL wrote: »

Should they disconnect the fire alarms too, as they disrupt the relaxed educational environment?

Yes because that is the equivalent to a load of "volunteers" carrying guns around the place.

Elbaston

Arm everyone, heavily. With overt carrying permitted.

Innumerable thefts, rapes, murders prevented.

No-ones going to try to beat you up if you've got a belt fed m60 on your back.

Thus lives saved in many instances.... although probably more lives lost elsewhere as a result.

Well as someone said on another thread, in america the cat is out of the bag, so maybe this armed patrol thing actually is the lesser of two evils.


So carry a gun in an environment saturated with guns or be at risk of getting shot by one of those many same guns, thus further saturating your environment with guns.

and since you now have one and could be a crazy, I better have one too, and since I have one and may be crazy the next guy needs to have one.

Thats a dilly of a pickle neighbourino.

Thank Christ we don't have the same ultimatum here.

Seaneh

Decatur is a ****hole. Spent 5 hours there, most of that in a $2 Movie Theatre, and I never want to go back.
Strip malls and fastfood as far as the eye can see, I've never seen so many huddle-hut and waffle house restaurants in one place in my life.

North Georgia in general is pretty nice.
It's close to stone mountain, and that's pretty cool I guess, except for the whole confederate generals carved into the mountain thing, the park is lovely though.

That's all I have to add to this.

Manic Moran

I am absolutely not a fan of the recent trend in 'fortress-ising' schools in the US. I don't think my child should have to go through a metal detector and have her bag searched every morning when she goes in, or my having to sign in with security and wear an ID badge if I wish to visit her there. I would much rather dispense with all that and have one or two personnel in the school with a hidden sidearm. It would be far less intrusive, and probably more effective.

Grayson

If someone who's crazy and has a gun sees armed guards at a school one of two things will happe.

1) they'll go in anyway (Because they're fcuking crazy) but will target guards first or figure out how to avoid them for as long as possible.

2) they'll find somewhere else like a cinema or shopping mall (Toy shops anyone)

People who think having armed guards at schoo will stop shootings by crazy people are wrong. The only way to stop shootings like this are by stopping people having hand guns and automatic rifles. Allow bolt action rifles and double barrled shotguns since they are used for hunting. Allow sporting guns if people have fcuk off big safes to keep them in. Bolt action rifles that need to be reloaded after each shot are fine for hunting and don't have magazines. Same goes for the shotguns.

Lando Griffin

Elbaston wrote: »

Arm everyone, heavily. With overt carrying permitted.

Innumerable thefts, rapes, murders prevented.

No-ones going to try to beat you up if you've got a belt fed m60 on your back.

Thus lives saved in many instances.... although probably more lives lost elsewhere as a result.

You forgot to mention a hand gun for close combat situation that you would typically find in schools.

Witcher

Grayson wrote: »

Bolt action rifles that need to be reloaded after each shot are fine for hunting and don't have magazines. Same goes for the shotguns.

Bolt actions do have magazines and can be cycled incredibly quickly...it's not a laborious process to flick a bolt open with the tips of your fingers and close it. The argument that bolt actions are hard to use etc. is always put forward in these threads but bolt actions like the Lee Enfield were weapons of war..they were used in two world wars..they were designed to be easy to use in combat.

Restricting firearms to bolt actions and shotguns won't help anyway. Look at the case of Derrick Bird in Cumbria and come back.

conor2469

Blay wrote: »

Bolt actions do have magazines and can be cycled incredibly quickly...it's not a laborious process to flick a bolt open with the tips of your fingers and close it. The argument that bolt actions are hard to use etc. is always put forward in these threads but bolt actions like the Lee Enfield were weapons of war..they were used in two world wars..they were designed to be easy to use in combat.

Restricting firearms to bolt actions and shotguns won't help anyway. Look at the case of Derrick Bird in Cumbria and come back.

+1

The majority of the fatalities at Columbine were caused by a shotgun.

enda1

Why does America just keep getting more stupid?

MadsL

Grayson wrote: »

The only way to stop shootings like this are by stopping people having hand guns and automatic rifles. Allow bolt action rifles and double barrled shotguns since they are used for hunting. Allow sporting guns if people have fcuk off big safes to keep them in. Bolt action rifles that need to be reloaded after each shot are fine for hunting and don't have magazines. Same goes for the shotguns.

Charles Whitman used a bolt action rifle from the clock tower at the University of Texas at Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31.

enda1 wrote: »

Why does America just keep getting more stupid?

And yet people don't blink at the idea of armed guards in banks in response to bank robberies.

Shenshen

So the next report we can expect is of an armed volunteeer security guard running amok and shooting children?

Shenshen

MadsL wrote: »

And yet people don't blink at the idea of armed guards in banks in response to bank robberies.

What? Where?

enda1

MadsL wrote: »

And yet people don't blink at the idea of armed guards in banks in response to bank robberies.

I don't like armed guards in banks either. Lots of eyelids would be bat.

MadsL

Shenshen wrote: »

What? Where?

Most banks in the US have an armed security guard.

And don't the Army show up in Ireland to deliver welfare money to the Post Offices

FouxDaFaFa

It might sound like a logical idea to have someone with a gun to take on an intruder with a gun but the fact is, it doesn't always work.

There were armed guards at Columbine.
Virginia Tech had their own armed police force.

It makes me very uneasy to hear about reams of kids going through metal detectors every day and having their halls "patrolled".

Seaneh

MadsL wrote: »

Most banks in the US have an armed security guard.

And don't the Army show up in Ireland to deliver welfare money to the Post Offices

No, the army escort large volumes of money to various places, mostly banks.

Slight difference from trained soldiers escorting a cash transit than some rent-a-cop with a hand gun sitting in a bank lobby.

MadsL

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

It might sound like a logical idea to have someone with a gun to take on an intruder with a gun but the fact is, it doesn't always work.

There were armed guards at Columbine.
Virginia Tech had their own armed police force.

It makes me very uneasy to hear about reams of kids going through metal detectors every day and having their halls "patrolled".

There was one armed resource officer, he was eating his lunch in his patrol car outside the school. He did fire at Harris, but Harris got inside the building and he waited on backup as 5 minutes earlier a bomb explosion had been reported.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Police were on the scene in 3 minutes at Virginia Tech but were unable to gain access for a further five because the doors were barracaded.

Staff and students were not allowed to carry personal firearms on campus.

ceruleanblue

smellmepower wrote: »

Don't most American schools have armed security guards/police?know they definitely have them in Baltimore public schools.

I'll say it: we've a lot to be grateful for in Ireland, and the weakness of the rightwing lunatic money-obsessed "no such thing as society" Libertarians and their useful idiots in the paranoid "law and order" neo-con fringe in our country is a source of my personal joy each and every day. Thank you to the Irish sense of community which has so far prevented this horrible under siege lunacy from getting into our society.

MadsL

Seaneh wrote: »

No, the army escort large volumes of money to various places, mostly banks.

Slight difference from trained soldiers escorting a cash transit than some rent-a-cop with a hand gun sitting in a bank lobby.

As I have said elsewhere, I once knew an Irish Army Range Officer who was very compimentary about soldiers marksmanship, especially officers. Something about barndoors was a common phrase.

Many 'rent-a-cops' are veterans or retired cops.

MadsL

ceruleanblue wrote: »

I'll say it: we've a lot to be grateful for in Ireland, and the weakness of the rightwing lunatic money-obsessed "no such thing as society" Libertarians and their useful idiots in the paranoid "law and order" neo-con fringe in our country is a source of my personal joy each and every day. Thank you to the Irish sense of community which has so far prevented this horrible under siege lunacy from getting into our society.

Welcome to boards!

Have a chat with some Irish gunowners, they would appreciate the same sense of community giving them a reasonably clear set of gun legislation that doesn't rely on the siege fears of the local Super.

Mardy Bum

MadsL wrote: »

Welcome to boards!

Have a chat with some Irish gunowners, they would appreciate the same sense of community giving them a reasonably clear set of gun legislation that doesn't rely on the siege fears of the local Super.

Thankfully there is a big difference between gun owners in Ireland and the perverse gun culture than exists in the States.

MadsL

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Thankfully there is a big difference between gun owners in Ireland and the perverse gun culture than exists in the States.

Yep, every gun owner in the US is to blame. They should hang themselves in shame. :rolleyes:

FouxDaFaFa

MadsL wrote: »

There was one armed resource officer, he was eating his lunch in his patrol car outside the school. He did fire at Harris, but Harris got inside the building and he waited on backup as 5 minutes earlier a bomb explosion had been reported.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm

Police were on the scene in 3 minutes at Virginia Tech but were unable to gain access for a further five because the doors were barracaded.

Staff and students were not allowed to carry personal firearms on campus.

I'm not saying they didn't try their best, I'm saying that in the case of a spree shooting, something which happens very suddenly and which doesn't need a lot of time to be massively devastating, that the armed guards and police might not be as effective as people might imagine. If the shooters are determined enough, they'll know when the guards are on break or where they are situated on campus so they can go somewhere else.

MadsL

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I'm not saying they didn't try their best, I'm saying that in the case of a spree shooting, something which happens very suddenly and which doesn't need a lot of time to be massively devastating, that the armed guards and police might not be as effective as people might imagine. If the shooters are determined enough, they'll know when the guards are on break or where they are situated on campus so they can go somewhere else.

Yeah, I am not convinced that uniformed guards are the best plan. When I first heard this I thought that the school was going to allow staff to concealed carry. I think in the case of universities perhaps allowing CCW permit holders on the staff to carry on campus might be worth trying.

Seaneh

MadsL wrote: »

As I have said elsewhere, I once knew an Irish Army Range Officer who was very compimentary about soldiers marksmanship, especially officers. Something about barndoors was a common phrase.

Many 'rent-a-cops' are veterans or retired cops.

I know a few retired rangers and none of them have such views of Irish soldiers marksmanship. My father, who worked in optics and ordnance for 20 odd years is also very complementary of the marksmanship of the average Irish soldier.
There is a reason the UN loves our boys so much, they are good at their jobs.

MadsL

Seaneh wrote: »

I know a few retired rangers and none of them have such views of Irish soldiers marksmanship. My father, who worked in optics and ordnance for 20 odd years is also very complementary of the marksmanship of the average Irish soldier.
There is a reason the UN loves our boys so much, they are good at their jobs.

Well, he did relate the tales of having a one of his decent lads shoot one officers shooting TOET as he was incapable of even getting on the paper.

Manic Moran

Shenshen wrote: »

So the next report we can expect is of an armed volunteeer security guard running amok and shooting children?

I don't see how that is any worse than the current situation of any other random person being able to run amok unopposed.

MadsL wrote: »

Yeah, I am not convinced that uniformed guards are the best plan. When I first heard this I thought that the school was going to allow staff to concealed carry. I think in the case of universities perhaps allowing CCW permit holders on the staff to carry on campus might be worth trying.

It hasn't proven an issue in the schools and universities which allow it.