Star Trek TNG (Reflections after 20 yrs)

Lockedout

I have watched a few repeats on Sci-fi Channel. I have to say that it pales in comparison to BSG. It was too dependent on stand alone episodes and the characters were all too nice. I know it was of its era and the one thing about repeats-is you know what will happen.

Its still in my top five Sci Fi series but even Deep Space 9 had more of a novelistic approach.

Im not saying BSG did not have its flaws but in terms of character development it left STNG in the shade and it had only four seasons to do so not 7 like picard and company. Actually if Stewart was not cast I think it would have sank like an anchor.

nyarlothothep

I disagree. I dont like BSG because it reflects the age of cynicism/darkness that Christopher Nolan capitalised on. For that entire decade in order for something to be regarded as good/worthy it had to be dark and full of dislikeable characters. TNG will never be regarded in as high estimation right now, in this modern world, because it reflects a different, more optimistic era, it's effectively different rather than better or worse, although I think it's better too. It explored some of the biggest themes going in sci fi and in the existence of the human species with aplomb and the character development was superb, particularly for Picard who, to paraphrase Wil Wheaton, went from a cranky old dude to an incredibly complex, multilayered character. The contrast between the cheesy first season and the seventh season makes the development all the more powerful. Also the stand alone episode format is actually a lost art imo, it allows for the series to experiment with a host of ideas like the Borg which was arrived at after several enemy iterations, to come up with self contained narratives that are way more affective/powerful because they are limited, eg The Inner Light and not to become burdened with a story arc that may go on and on. You're right though, the show would have tanked without Stewart.

Goodshape

Yeah, totally disagree with OP.

I've tried to re-watch BSG a couple of times actually and I've never quite made it through. I absolutely loved it while it was on but I dunno, it's almost too character driven and melodramatic for the repeat viewings. Knowing where things are going and how loooooonnngg it's going to take to get there, it hasn't really turned into a show I can just sit down to any old episode and enjoy. And there really are a large number of episodes that do nothing more than fill the gap between the previous and the next one. Plus it all stopped making any sense before the end anyway.

TNG, on the other-hand, I've really come to think of as the pinnacle of television. Those stand alone episodes are perfect and as nyarlothothep says, seems to be a lost art these days. Interesting, entertaining and unique 45 minutes of science fiction each week. The characters were great (imo anyway) – and just a bunch of explorers exploring the galaxy! That's great! No war, no overriding mystery mumbo-jumbo... just exploring, discovering, every week. Love it


These series with their massive story-arc's can be fun at the time but I don't think they have as much staying power as the likes of TNG. Even DS9 suffered from that in the later seasons. All of a sudden you had just one thing happening, week after week... more space explosions. More brooding and war. Meh. It's the single episodes you go back to, not that stuff.

Lockedout

Interesting posts. I do take the point that it would be hard to re-watch BSG because of the narrative structure while STNG is easier to re-watch because of its stand alone episodes. I still think it could have had a bit more friction without going into BSG territory totally. Rodenberry dictated that the crew were to get along which cut off some interesting avenues.

Picard's main love in the series (besides BEV) comes and goes in one episode! The flute player. Surely, that could have got a second or third episode?!
It was indeed a creature of its time-the 1980s being more optimistic TV wise at least but I think Television went in a more realistic direction after that.The" lets all learn something from TV" being replaced by a more realistic narcissism. Though at times it over does it but thats the nature of drama. Extremes.
I still enjoy Star Trek and its new incarnations. I enjoy the order of its worlds but I think once the Sopranos came along TV would never be the same again. Though Hill street blues did presage it by not having every crime figured out and some rather bleak characters.
Its like returning to a childhood home..STNG.

nyarlothothep

That's an interesting point. One argument is that they have unlimited resources with replicator tech so there's no need for resource competition, although the Ferengis would have roughly the same level of tech development being a warp society yet they're ultra capitalists. I think WW3 knocked the desire of the human race for internal rivalries, status and power because it almost resulted in their extinction, in the same way, possibly that WW2 has pretty much knocked out of most Europeans, jingoism and the desire to go to war and ressurect feudal orders, which is what the Axis powers were sort of doing, ie Mussolini, fascism was like bringing back Rome while Hitler was trying to create a mythical Aryan empire. People have moved beyond that I think...because WW2 was so devestating in its effects that it resonated across decades and affected European culture, it was such a sh1t time in human history that the reaction was, never again.

Not all human societies are capitalist anyway, in a natural sense, for example Native American tribes were communal in nature and they really didn't buy into American capitalist culture. The ideologues of the day of the day argued for the "civilisation" of Indians by teaching them the correct relationship to property ie individual as opposed to communal ownership, which would precipitate in wage labour. That to me illustrates that capitalism, of the variety we have now, is just another stage in history, like feudalism. I wouldn't be surprised if in Feudal times, feudalists were arguing that feudalism perfectly represented human nature. In the ST universe the human race can be said to have moved towards a socialist set up, that's just another stage in history. However it's not really well fleshed out as to how the Fed operates. The existence of Section 31 in addition to the admiralty which is comprised of shortsighted, pencil pushing autocrats (which is why Janeway got promoted) indicates that the Fed isn't all it's cracked up to be. The Borg would be the closest approximation to communism that I can think of. In a way they have achieved utopia. There is absolutely no internal conflict in their society, it is perfect, therefore it is utopia, they might be forgiven for wanting to assimilate other species.

mr lee

i still think it was quite good

Lockedout

I just realized you must have read my post between edits nyral-I mentioned the Federation as being quite marxist (not in a stanlinist way ) and wondered how realistic that was but edited that comment out as I thought it was too deep!

Lockedout

Goodshape wrote: »

Yeah, totally disagree with OP.

I've tried to re-watch BSG a couple of times actually and I've never quite made it through. I absolutely loved it while it was on but I dunno, it's almost too character driven and melodramatic for the repeat viewings. Knowing where things are going and how loooooonnngg it's going to take to get there, it hasn't really turned into a show I can just sit down to any old episode and enjoy. And there really are a large number of episodes that do nothing more than fill the gap between the previous and the next one. Plus it all stopped making any sense before the end anyway.

TNG, on the other-hand, I've really come to think of as the pinnacle of television. Those stand alone episodes are perfect and as nyarlothothep says, seems to be a lost art these days. Interesting, entertaining and unique 45 minutes of science fiction each week. The characters were great (imo anyway) – and just a bunch of explorers exploring the galaxy! That's great! No war, no overriding mystery mumbo-jumbo... just exploring, discovering, every week. Love it


These series with their massive story-arc's can be fun at the time but I don't think they have as much staying power as the likes of TNG. Even DS9 suffered from that in the later seasons. All of a sudden you had just one thing happening, week after week... more space explosions. More brooding and war. Meh. It's the single episodes you go back to, not that stuff.

Some of the stand alones are classic. The inner light has to be in the top ten of any sci fi fan.

Lu Tze

Rewatching this at the moment, really enjoying it. Took me four goes to try and rewatch the final season of BSG, found it painful in the end, it was very different form the show in the first and second season.

TNGs social commmentaries can be a bit too in your face a sometimes, but enjoying it far more than i expected. With this going so well im going to have to go back to another of my old favourites to see if it stands up - Macgyver!

Optimus Prime

I dont think its fair to compare it to BSG. They are totally different shows in format. You could never flick through the channels and just sit down and watch one ep of Battlestar, its basically a big long movie broken down and shown over a period of four years. TNG you can just jump in and watch an episode anywhere.

I love the BSG format of one story arc throughout, ive always found tv shows that drop hints here and there of bigger goings on more interesting than ones that are just stand alone eps. I think it probably all started with Babylon 5. I never watched it when it was on, was always a trek fan, but caught up with it later and loved the story build up throughout the seasons, how when you watch it over again you notice stuff you didnt see the first time, things people said etc.

Whenever i watch old tv shows on repeat viewing I always find the eps that expand the larger story the more interesting ones. There was never really much of that on TNG, yeh it had minor story's weaved into it that would crop up now and again. I guess you could say exploration was the overall story!

The great thing about TNG is that is comes from that old school of each episode having a moral story and thats where Star Trek has always excelled. Its not just TV, it teaches moral lessons, right and wrong etc. Its a product of the time for sure, but a lot of the episodes are classic original story telling.

JayRoc

Lockedout wrote: »

Some of the stand alones are classic. The inner light has to be in the top ten of any sci fi fan.

I honestly don't get why people like that episode. Hate it. Bugged me the most of all TNG stories

Pride Fighter

BSG is more dated. The graphics are worse and Dirk Benedict is so baby faced its unreal :P

WomanSkirtFan8

Pride Fighter wrote: »

BSG is more dated. The graphics are worse and Dirk Benedict is so baby faced its unreal :P

You can't really compare both of these series as they're two completely different forms of sci-fi. TNG is an excellent series even after nearly more than 20 years.

I still notice certain things about TNG now that I never noticed before. And some of the episodes still surprise me in certain ways.

Terrlock

I loved TNG, I would love to go back to that style of show.

I think star trek has really gone down hill since TNG was finished, especially after the Nemises Movie.

ruskin

When Q gave Geordi his eyesight back, why didn't he want to keep it?

IvySlayer

ruskin wrote: »

When Q gave Geordi his eyesight back, why didn't he want to keep it?

Back? He was born blind so he never had eyesight. He's never known any other way of seeing apart from his VISOR at that point and it was superior to normal human eyes.