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"I am Chelsea Manning"

  • 22-08-2013 2:29pm
    #1
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭


    Very brave decision for Chelsea Manning to reveal her gender identity at this stage of her life

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/bradley-manning-woman-chelsea-gender-reassignment

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



Comments

  • #2
    Goodshape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Amazing. Fair play to her.

    I find it sad that, on top of everything else, she wasn't able to say so sooner. Sacrificed so much.


  • #3
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,547 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    I wonder how the relevant parties are going to see this in the US. Sending Chelsea Manning to a women-only prison would set a fairly big precedent that could potentially be abused by future prisoners. I presume there may be some gender-neutral federal prisons in the US?


  • #4
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    I wonder how the relevant parties are going to see this in the US. Sending Chelsea Manning to a women-only prison would set a fairly big precedent that could potentially be abused by future prisoners. I presume there may be some gender-neutral federal prisons in the US?

    Abused!

    You need to be much more careful about that type or denigratory transphobic langauge in this forum. It's not acceptable. Noone seriously goes through tranistion for the sole reason of changing their prison.

    Reminds me of Mary Hanafin

    http://www.mamanpoulet.com/changing-gender-for-financial-gain/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #5
    Pang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭Pang


    I am really happy to hear Chelsea has made this decision. Though it makes me feel sad that she had to spend the last twenty five years feeling unhappy, trapped and isolated. I really hope she will be happy and that her lawyer can get her the hormone therapy.


  • #6
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,547 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Abused!

    You need to be much more careful about that type or denigratory transphobic langauge in this forum. It's not acceptable. Noone seriously goes through tranistion for the sole reason of changing their prison.

    It's pretty baffling how you found my above comment transphobic. I'm not accusing Chelsea Manning or any other prisoner of changing gender purely to be moved to a different prison. It's obviously something US judges are going to consider though when making their decision, to think otherwise would be extremely naive.

    Fwiw, I'm completely supportive of Manning's choice and it's one I've expected for a while. I've followed her case quite closely, she had a very troubling time in the military. The US military's attitude to her needs likely contributed to the actions that has led to her prison term.


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  • #7
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    I'm glad for her that she's taken control with regard gender and how she's perceived, her GID has been public knowledge since the first week her identity became known, it was used as a smear then, followed by a defence in court, which the prosecution was pretty ignorant about, and the media idiotic, I'm sure taking steps to own her own identity in that context is pretty huge for her.


  • #8
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    I find it pretty annoying that on Today FM they keep using male pronouns for her. How hard is it?


  • #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    NiallSparky wrote: »
    It's pretty baffling how you found my above comment transphobic. I'm not accusing Chelsea Manning or any other prisoner of changing gender purely to be moved to a different prison. It's obviously something US judges are going to consider though when making their decision, to think otherwise would be extremely naive.

    Fwiw, I'm completely supportive of Manning's choice and it's one I've expected for a while. I've followed her case quite closely, she had a very troubling time in the military. The US military's attitude to her needs likely contributed to the actions that has led to her prison term.

    I accept that perhaps your original words were not intended as transphobic and apologise.

    Having looked through a number of online discussions about Chelsea Manning all day there has been quite a lot of online expressions of transphobia and I jumped at this a little rashly.

    That being said I honestly do think suggesting that people will abuse their gender identity as some sort of leverage to get out of prison is actually offensive and not realistic as Links234 has pointed out

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86146908&postcount=155

    As per the forum charter any responses to moderation should be sent by pm.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #10
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    There are plenty of people commenting on this case in the mainline media who are of the opinion that Manning deserved the death penalty for treason and that her gender reassignment plans are evidence of - in their words - her "unbalanced, mentally ill and untrustworthy nature."

    Disgusting. :mad:


  • #11
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Very interesting article

    http://paper-bird.net/2013/08/23/living-in-truth-chelsea-manning-in-prison/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #12
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Very brave decision for Chelsea Manning to reveal her gender identity at this stage of her life
    Really? I thought it was common knowledge they had gender dysphoria for years and that he had wanted to be seen as a woman for quite some time. I guess the mainstream media was behind on this one.


  • #13
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Really? I thought it was common knowledge they had gender dysphoria for years and that he had wanted to be seen as a woman for quite some time. I guess the mainstream media was behind on this one.

    She asked the media and public not to deal with it. This was partly out of respect to the process of the trial and partly out of not wanting the situation to be about something else. It was mentioned throughout the trial but there was no request for different names or pronouns. Once the trial was over and the matter decided she was free to make the announcement and request. I think that's pretty impressive.


  • #14
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Would they give her access to treatment? I doubt it somehow.


  • #15
    theSHU
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭theSHU


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Would they give her access to treatment? I doubt it somehow.

    There is a precedent:
    In a first-of-its-kind ruling, a federal judge in Boston has ordered Massachusetts authorities to provide a taxpayer-funded sex-change operation for a transgender prisoner.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/09/04/judge-orders-sex-change-operation-for-federal-prisoner/

    Obviously Manning is in the military juducial system and may not get the same treatment.


  • #16
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    "Fox News mocks Chelsea Manning with “Dude (Looks Like A Lady)”

    http://www.thejournal.ie/fox-news-mocks-chelsea-mannings-wish-to-be-called-a-woman-1059161-Aug2013/

    Could Fox get any classier, I don't even know what to say...


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