Paying VRT on Original Irish Car-New issues?

Carlo11

Dear all,
Apologies for another VRT related question but I need some quick advice before I have a heart attack! I have paid the VRT on a car already and so know this process and the pros and cons involved. This query is slightly different and may help others before they get into my position.

Can someone please advise me or let me know if they've gone through the below recently?

• I recently bought a luxury 2010 car from NI which is originally Irish.
• As it's an old Irish car I assumed (through doing a lot of online research) that no VRT was needed to be paid on this. (No issues with NCT either.)
• While looking for advise on how to re-register the car today I was sent from Dept of Transport to NCT to National Vehicle Reg in Rosslare with many people in different departments contradicting each other.
• Eventually, I have been told that the company which exported the car had reclaimed some of the VRT at the time of exportation.
• I'm now liable to pay some (as yet unknown) percentage of the VRT to re-register the car.

Before I bought the car I called around to some motor tax offices to ensure there was no VRT applicable etc but couldn't get through to anyone. I researched the VRT.ie website to (what I thought) was an exhaustive degree and never came across this specific problem. Apparently it's a regulation which has only very recently come in. If I imported this very same car from the UK today without it being originally Irish I would need to pay €11,141. I'm now left wondering what percentage of €11K I need to pay seeing as it was originally Irish. Hence the near heart attack!

Has anyone come across this before? What is the percentage typically seeing as some VRT has been originally paid?

Before it's pointed out that the car is still cheaper with the new VRT being paid; I realise this. However, I wouldn't have bought the car-despite the cheaper price- had I known there was outstanding VRT to be paid.

I really appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks for reading the post.

listermint

Carlo11 wrote: »

Dear all,
Apologies for another VRT related question but I need some quick advice before I have a heart attack! I have paid the VRT on a car already and so know this process and the pros and cons involved. This query is slightly different and may help others before they get into my position.

Can someone please advise me or let me know if they've gone through the below recently?

• I recently bought a luxury 2010 car from NI which is originally Irish.
• As it's an old Irish car I assumed (through doing a lot of online research) that no VRT was needed to be paid on this. (No issues with NCT either.)
• While looking for advise on how to re-register the car today I was sent from Dept of Transport to NCT to National Vehicle Reg in Rosslare with many people in different departments contradicting each other.
• Eventually, I have been told that the company which exported the car had reclaimed some of the VRT at the time of exportation.
• I'm now liable to pay some (as yet unknown) percentage of the VRT to re-register the car.

Before I bought the car I called around to some motor tax offices to ensure there was no VRT applicable etc but couldn't get through to anyone. I researched the VRT.ie website to (what I thought) was an exhaustive degree and never came across this specific problem. Apparently it's a regulation which has only very recently come in. If I imported this very same car from the UK today without it being originally Irish I would need to pay €11,141. I'm now left wondering what percentage of €11K I need to pay seeing as it was originally Irish. Hence the near heart attack!

Has anyone come across this before? What is the percentage typically seeing as some VRT has been originally paid?

Before it's pointed out that the car is still cheaper with the new VRT being paid; I realise this. However, I wouldn't have bought the car-despite the cheaper price- had I known there was outstanding VRT to be paid.

I really appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks for reading the post.

You will have to 'revrt' it only the motor office can tell you the figure unfortunately.

Claiming VRT back on export is a frequent occurence these days for obvious reasons as they can get money from revenue office and also get more money in the UK for the vehicle.

CiniO

When was it exported from Ireland to NI?

ardmacha

Was the car actually registered in the Republic, or merely bought in Republic and only first registered in the North (quite usual). If the latter, no VRT was ever paid. or it was reclaimed, either way it means the car is an NI one and you'll have to fork out the VRT as per usual. If it had an ROI reg number then this can be used again.

colm_mcm

When was it exported from Ireland? If i was exporting a 2010 car since the vrt refund came in id be sure to reclaim it.

Northern Monkey

CiniO wrote: »

I thought VRT refund scheme only came in earlier this year (2013).

The car is 2010

colm_mcm

Northern Monkey wrote: »

The car is 2010

Yes but when was it exported?

CiniO

Northern Monkey wrote: »

The car is 2010

True. I misunderstood colm's post.

Carlo11

Thanks all for your quick replies.
The car was driven in Ireland for the past three years; registered in NI 3 weeks ago; bought by me 2 weeks ago. (I was waiting for the log book for the two weeks as it was being processed in the NI vehicle reg office.)
I had searched online a lot and never came across someone reclaiming VRT on a car. It does make sense to do this but I never knew about this.
@Ardmhacha: you mention I'll have to fork out the full VRT amount. Are you sure about this? I'm clinging to the hope that as the company only reclaimed some of the VRT surely I won't be charged the full amount???

Northern Monkey

Carlo11 wrote: »

Thanks all for your quick replies.
The car was driven in Ireland for the past three years; registered in NI 3 weeks ago; bought by me 2 weeks ago. (I was waiting for the log book for the two weeks as it was being processed in the NI vehicle reg office.)
I had searched online a lot and never came across someone reclaiming VRT on a car. It does make sense to do this but I never knew about this.
@Ardmhacha: you mention I'll have to fork out the full VRT amount. Are you sure about this? I'm clinging to the hope that as the company only reclaimed some of the VRT surely I won't be charged the full amount???

Stick the car into the VRT calculator. Whoever exported it would get that amount back, less €500(possibly more if it has a lot of options). I guess the VRT payable will be the same amount if it was only reclaimed 3 weeks ago.

colm_mcm

Being honest its just not feasible that someone would export to NI unless the vrt was being refunded.

Carlo11

Thanks for the help all.

derry

Have you been scammed

For example a car is ROI the last 3 years.Then last month its exported to NI and the exporters get back the VRT .Then they sucker some ROI guy to buy it with story it originally ROI car so no issues to bring it back to ROI and then when they do it they get hit with the VRT.

Thats what it sounds like to me

Derry

Carlo11

To be honest it's starting to look this way to me too. However at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot I can do about it. Having taken the advice of previous posters it looks like I'll be paying €10,641 in VRT. It's pretty gutting but what can you do? I've no idea where I'll be able to come up with this type of money unexpectedly in such a short space of time. 30 days to pay VRT??
Probably karma for buying my dream car in such tough times?? (Saying that I work very hard and thought I deserved it.)

CiniO

Carlo11 wrote: »

To be honest it's starting to look this way to me too. However at the end of the day there isn't a whole lot I can do about it. Having taken the advice of previous posters it looks like I'll be paying €10,641 in VRT. It's pretty gutting but what can you do? I've no idea where I'll be able to come up with this type of money unexpectedly in such a short space of time. 30 days to pay VRT??
Probably karma for buying my dream car in such tough times?? (Saying that I work very hard and thought I deserved it.)

Sorry to hear all that. Looks like you were stung.

But thing is quite interesting as you might be the first case of car exported from Ireland with VRT repaid back, and now trying to import it to Ireland again.
As you said yourself they don't have a clue what to do in such case.
Keep us informed how it goes.

colm_mcm

OP, its an awful situation, I don't see how the garage is at fault though.

derry

There was warning i saw for a BMW that was clocked . One woner who had it before saw it for sale with a Mileage that was less than when he owned it .The interesting thing was the number plate was easy to spot it had the eight like 888 .
It would be difficult to sell this car with the alert sent out all through the ROI forums
In that case the sellers could gain exporting it to Northern Ireland and collecting the VRT and then if it was sold to South it would get a new reg .
I think we are going to see more NI ROI export scams

Derry

colm_mcm

To be fair anyone with their head screwed on north or south will know that an odometer reading isnt worth jack without a verified service history.

Carlo11

As I often receive great info here I wanted to update on the result of my original query. Long story short: when I eventually registered the car, I was fined €900 because of the delay. (0.015% per day of the VRT value). It was the first car being re-registered in the state and this caused the delay. I appealed the VRT based on three reasons. Namely: I. The fine was inappropriate due to the misinformation given to me by various departments. I actually received an email from Revenue telling me they didn't know how to process me as they had not encountered it yet. Result: refund of €896. II. Their OMSP of my car was inflated. Result: refund of €1,970. III. Actually charging me VRT in the first place was unfair due to this new law being unknown outside of a number of car experts. Result: comment ignored which I was expecting I suppose. It took a month for Revenue to make their decision. A lot of people were surprised when I told them I was fined for not paying on time due to the fact that Applus/ NCTS normally doesn't care about this. They're obviously being told to tighten up on this so anyone driving on UK plates saving up to pay VRT on the car beware...

Sobanek

10k VRT?? What is this, a Ferrari 458??

Kenny Logins

derry wrote: »

There was warning i saw for a BMW that was clocked . One woner who had it before saw it for sale with a Mileage that was less than when he owned it .The interesting thing was the number plate was easy to spot it had the eight like 888 .
It would be difficult to sell this car with the alert sent out all through the ROI forums
In that case the sellers could gain exporting it to Northern Ireland and collecting the VRT and then if it was sold to South it would get a new reg .
I think we are going to see more NI ROI export scams

Derry

Would the car get a new number when brought back in? I thought they get the old one back, or is that just UK..?

Del2005

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Would the car get a new number when brought back in? I thought they get the old one back, or is that just UK..?

IIRC the Irish number can't be changed, UK can get any number.

Would Motorcheck or Cartell be able to access the data to see if an exported car has had its VRT reclaimed? Can revenue give the information out?

Carlo11

It is a 2010 BMW 530 GT. It was actually €11K unfortunately. It's a lot of fun to drive. They gave me a new number as it's classed as a new car. Unfortunately, I was given **666 as the licence plate number which impressed the wife. FYI: on the log book there are 0 previous owners despite it being Irish "born".

corktina

you could ask the NI seller to take it back given the circumstances....

Carlo11

Del2005 wrote: »

IIRC the Irish number can't be changed, UK can get any number.

Would Motorcheck or Cartell be able to access the data to see if an exported car has had its VRT reclaimed? Can revenue give the information out?

I did a Cartell check and it came up clean for finance. I don't know if Revenue could give you this information. Good luck actually getting them to answer the phone to ask them in the first place!

kona

I got fined too when I registered my car, was flicking through the VRT calculator there, apparantley the OMSP of a ek9 TypeR civic is 14,800 and vrt due is 4 grand.

Joke of a system.

Del2005

Carlo11 wrote: »

I did a Cartell check and it came up clean for finance. I don't know if Revenue could give you this information. Good luck actually getting them to answer the phone to ask them in the first place!

That was kinda of my question. Since it's nearly impossible to reach our employees, in the civil service, the history check sites should be allowed access VRT data so other people aren't stung like you were.

mickdw

This is clearly a new issue since the introduction of vrt rebates a few months back.
Unfortunately, you can no longer assume anything in relation to vrt.
Even buying a bargain to export under the rebate scheme has many pitfalls. If for any reason a particular car was registered here without vrt being paid, no rebate is payable.

derry

Carlo11 wrote: »

It is a 2010 BMW 530 GT. It was actually €11K unfortunately. It's a lot of fun to drive. They gave me a new number as it's classed as a new car. Unfortunately, I was given **666 as the licence plate number which impressed the wife. FYI: on the log book there are 0 previous owners despite it being Irish "born".

Thats a hoot the 666
I think there was a bmw car in the done deal for sale and the previous owner did a complaint warning to boards ithink and done deal to tell people that the car was clocked since he owned it .It had lost some 50k miles iof i recall . If my memory was right it was sort of combo number like 888 or 666.
I thought only the freemasons were given the devils number
The cops it seems in ROI wont touch freemasons so that number plate might be worth more than the car

Keep us posted soundsl like there has been a pile of used ROI cars exported to the North and returning as single owners new register cars and the VRT are probably making a killing off the new owners like you from this scam so they are all for the scam is my guess

Derry

derry

mickdw wrote: »

This is clearly a new issue since the introduction of vrt rebates a few months back.
Unfortunately, you can no longer assume anything in relation to vrt.
Even buying a bargain to export under the rebate scheme has many pitfalls. If for any reason a particular car was registered here without vrt being paid, no rebate is payable.

How can a car be registered in ROI without to pay the VRT confused

Are you saying I could go to some main dealer buy a brand new car get it registered and maybe a few months later the VRT people come looking for the missing VRT the dealer didnt pay .If so thats is scary as crap :eek:

Beginning to look like its safer to buy UK reg and import it yourself that way you know for sure where you are

Derry

guttenberg

VRT isn't applicable for certain people.

Various reliefs and exemptions from VRT are available in particular circumstances. They include exemptions which may apply in the case of:

Transfer of Residence
Transfer of Business Activity
Inheritance
Diplomatic
Relief is also available for certain persons with disabilities who meet specified medical criteria

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vrt-guide.html#section11

mickdw

derry wrote: »

How can a car be registered in ROI without to pay the VRT confused

Are you saying I could go to some main dealer buy a brand new car get it registered and maybe a few months later the VRT people come looking for the missing VRT the dealer didnt pay .If so thats is scary as crap :eek:

Beginning to look like its safer to buy UK reg and import it yourself that way you know for sure where you are

Derry

No. If a car has an irish reg legitimately, it's fine and nobody will coming looking for vrt.
I was referring to cars that availed of exemptions such as disabled drivers scheme etc as listed in previous post. While these cars are legit and even when sold on after a period, they are still legit irish reg cars. Where the issue arises is if someone were to buy a car thinking it would be profitable to export it. You could find that the car never had vrt paid so there would then be no rebate payable and you would be left with a problem.
In short, only at export stage would there be an issue.

derry

mickdw wrote: »

No. If a car has an irish reg legitimately, it's fine and nobody will coming looking for vrt.
I was referring to cars that availed of exemptions such as disabled drivers scheme etc as listed in previous post. While these cars are legit and even when sold on after a period, they are still legit irish reg cars. Where the issue arises is if someone were to buy a car thinking it would be profitable to export it. You could find that the car never had vrt paid so there would then be no rebate payable and you would be left with a problem.
In short, only at export stage would there be an issue.

yeah one rule for muggins who pays and another rule for the special diplomatic political and various gravy train brigade who to make it look good dish out some to only the most disabled of Eire . In many countries where that type of difference exists the number plates are different as in special prefix numbers or different colours to show they are some other category.Examples could be civil service cars or diplomatic or similar .
If they made those number plates in red with prefix like X instead of the year we could know to avoid to get those cars if we intended exporting them .Not that that is my problem but hell you never know when that could be issue you might get job in northern Ireland and move to northern Ireland and want to get the rebate back on the car

Derry