Penelty point situation

Ipro

Hi all , long time reader on boards first time posting.

Slightly complicated situation so ill do my best to put in in point form so as to make things as ckear as possible. hopefully someone will have some idea what's going on.

Stopped at check point 4 years ago.
No tax , nct or insurance - my bad my own fault , went to court , threw my hands up , admitted I did wrong and the judge ordered a ban , endorsment and a fine. Fair enough , I deserved it.

A few weeks later I get a letter from the RSA saying they are putting 5 points on my license for no NCT.

I threw the letter out and thought nothing of it , that perhaps it was a mistake.

My belief is that the gards did not deal with the situation regarding tax , nct and no insurance (combined) and essentially passed this book to the court/judge who issued me with the ban&fine and that I should receive the ban and fine and that be the matter felt with. The judge mentioned nothing about points , it seemed the Garda requested these points to go on my licence rather than the courthouse.

Do the Garda have the right to request the points to go in my licence for no nct if they have given the case to the cort to deal with and the court felt with the matter and did not state penelty points in the judgement ?

Apologies for my lack of paragraphs / sentence structuring .

endacl

Well, throwing the letter out and not engaging with the issue probably wasn't a great first move...

AFAIK the points are applied when your license is handed back to you. They start not at the time of the conviction, but at the time you start driving again. To make sure you behave yourself in future....

hullaballoo

Ipro wrote: »

Hi all , long time reader on boards first time posting.

Slightly complicated situation so ill do my best to put in in point form so as to make things as ckear as possible. hopefully someone will have some idea what's going on.

Stopped at check point 4 years ago.
No tax , nct or insurance - my bad my own fault , went to court , threw my hands up , admitted I did wrong and the judge ordered a ban , endorsment and a fine. Fair enough , I deserved it.

A few weeks later I get a letter from the RSA saying they are putting 5 points on my license for no NCT.

I threw the letter out and thought nothing of it , that perhaps it was a mistake.

My belief is that the gards did not deal with the situation regarding tax , nct and no insurance (combined) and essentially passed this book to the court/judge who issued me with the ban&fine and that I should receive the ban and fine and that be the matter felt with. The judge mentioned nothing about points , it seemed the Garda requested these points to go on my licence rather than the courthouse.

Do the Garda have the right to request the points to go in my licence for no nct if they have given the case to the cort to deal with and the court felt with the matter and did not state penelty points in the judgement ?

Apologies for my lack of paragraphs / sentence structuring .

Penalty points are effectively out of the Court's hands. They are applied by the RSA on notification by the Gardaí. No NCT is one of the areas where the Court has no discretion to adjust the number of points, so the Court often won't even mention the points.

There are a number of judges who will state at the beginning of their Road Traffic offences list that points will automatically follow certain convictions and that they will not be telling individual people to expect points.

Ipro

Yes , throwing the letter out was prob not the best thing to do, I should have felt with the issue there and then . I understand the points only start from when I get my licence back.

I suppose my question is , were the gardi entitled to submit these points to the rsa if they handed the book over to the judge ? Surlry at this stage the gardi are no longer involved in dealing justice regarding the situation and it falls on the judge to decide the appropriate judgement /outcome ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Ipro

hullaballoo wrote: »

Penalty points are effectively out of the Court's hands. They are applied by the RSA on notification by the Gardaí. No NCT is one of the areas where the Court has no discretion to adjust the number of points, so the Court often won't even mention the points.

There are a number of judges who will state at the beginning of their Road Traffic offences list that points will automatically follow certain convictions and that they will not be telling individual people to expect points.

Thanks , that clears things up.
Not in my favor , but offers me some clarity at least

Ipro

Fred Swanson wrote: »

It is not the Gardaí it is the courts that notify the RSA of points in this case.

What if I were to say ask the court and they said they didn't ask the rsa to issue the points ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

endacl

Just out of interest OP. Do you think it was unfair to have points applied for no tax, insurance and NCT?

Greenmachine

What exactly is the issue. The 5 point are compulsary for the mentioned offence.
Take it on the chin. I like many motorists have acquired some points. 2 points for a speeding offence, recieved the notification in the mail. I like anyone else is accepting the facts and getting on with things.

hullaballoo

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't know that you're correct about this. The registrar might have a role in notifying the RSA where there's a conviction the mandates penalty points but the Court is not involved whatsoever in other circumstances.

For example, if you're caught by a speed camera, you get a fixed penalty notice from the Gardaí and (when you pay) they notify the RSA.

It is certainly incorrect to state that the Gardaí have "no input". This is particularly the case in light of the fact that a senior officer can remove your points.

Ipro

endacl wrote: »

Just out of interest OP. Do you think it was unfair to have points applied for no tax, insurance and NCT?

Personally on a moral ground I think it is fair to apply points for no tax , nct & insurance, but this is a legal discussion not a moral one.

Ipro

Ok so to clarify , the 5 points were for having no NCT according to the RSA.

When in court we were dealing with no insurance the issue of tax/nct was "taken into consideration "

"8.—(1) Where a person, on being convicted of an offence, admits himself guilty of any other offence and asks to have it taken into consideration in awarding punishment, the Court may take it into consideration accordingly.

(2) If the Court takes an offence into consideration, a note of that fact shall be made and filed with the record of the sentence, and the accused shall not be prosecuted for that offence, unless his conviction is reversed on appeal.

"
The accused shal not be convicted of that offence ? Surlry that would mean I was not convicted of having no NCT and should not have gotten the points ?

Zambia

All seems fine.

You were found guilty of offences x,y and z.

If any of those offences carry penalty points you have to get the points on conviction of the associated offence. This is how I interpret the responses so far and they seem legit.

kjbsrah1

No Garda has ever picked up the phone or wrote a letter to the RSA to say such and such was convicted of such an offence now you have to apply so many penalty points.

Offence committed, offence detected, prosecution commenced, court appearance, conviction, automatic notification to the RSA that such and such was convicted of whatever offence. The RSA then automatically issues notice to offender.

The automatic notification stems from a comuter section - court convictions are inputted by court services onto a computer which is linked to the Garda System, and an automatic notification is then issued to the RSA. There is no one who actually sits down and thinks 'i need to notify the RSA of this conviction'. Its all automated. And its generated on a conviction only, not on any other grounds.

Hope this makes sense!

kjbsrah1

Ipro wrote: »

Ok so to clarify , the 5 points were for having no NCT according to the RSA.

When in court we were dealing with no insurance the issue of tax/nct was "taken into consideration "

"8.—(1) Where a person, on being convicted of an offence, admits himself guilty of any other offence and asks to have it taken into consideration in awarding punishment, the Court may take it into consideration accordingly.

(2) If the Court takes an offence into consideration, a note of that fact shall be made and filed with the record of the sentence, and the accused shall not be prosecuted for that offence, unless his conviction is reversed on appeal.

"
The accused shal not be convicted of that offence ? Surlry that would mean I was not convicted of having no NCT and should not have gotten the points ?

That depends. Was your charge/summons for not having an NCT Taken into Consideration (as in it was noted but no separate fine was applied for that specific offence) or was it dealt with as a totally separate offence by the judge? If you are not sure, check with the prosecuting Garda or the Court office - although as you got a notification that you were getting the full 5 penalty points, i would presume it was not 'taken into consideration'. This is wholly and totally a judges discretion by the way.

Ipro

kjbsrah1 wrote: »

That depends. Was your charge/summons for not having an NCT Taken into Consideration (as in it was noted but no separate fine was applied for that specific offence) or was it dealt with as a totally separate offence by the judge? If you are not sure, check with the prosecuting Garda or the Court office - although as you got a notification that you were getting the full 5 penalty points, i would presume it was not 'taken into consideration'. This is wholly and totally a judges discretion by the way.

I'm going to obtain a copy of the judgement and will update when I'm certain of how the matter was put down on paper.