Sick of my father

LegacyUser

Hi everyone, decided I would go unreg for this.

I am going to try and keep it short and simple(ish). For a long time my family and I have suffered tirades of mental abuse from my father. He was diagnosed with depression a very long time ago but his doctor took him off any medication he was on as he has blood pressure problems and the meds were not agreeing. Anyway in the last few years he seems to be getting worse and I honestly don't think he has depression.

He goes into what we call "moods". If he didn't have thing his way or something messed up or if you said one little criticism he would just fly off the handle and start roaring, ranting and rav ing. If there was a problem at work, we got the brunt of it when he got home. He's never hit us or harmed us anyway physically but the amount of roaring and shouting did enough damage. He's a very self absorbed and selfish person. He can also be quite ignorant to others feelings and doesn't seem to think that he's ever wrong and that he is always right.

Another thing he does is pretend to people outside the family that everything is fine. One evening he got into one his "moods" with my mother. She ignores him when he's like this but at the same time the atmosphere is so tense and you can feel the dread. Anyway he was like this for the best part of the evening but a neighbour called over for a chat. Straight away he snapped out of this mood and pretended everything was ok. He's done this so many times to us growing up.

He also has a persecution complex too. Anything that goes wrong..something stupid like not having money in the bank because he was paid late..he'll blame himself for it and swing off into one of these moods. He can also be quite aggressive and viscous and it's getting worse as he's getting older.

We've tried getting him to go see a counsellor or anyone that can help us but he always makes excuses about money or work. I am not 100% sure if he can go any medication to relax him as his doctor is very fussy with what he's taking for his blood pressure. I've talked to the man so many times, we all have but he just doesn't want to hear it or he just tells you to fuddle off somewhere and leave him alone or worse still, plays dumb.

Anyone I have talked to about him have their theories about what it is that is wrong with him. Friends and family have down through the years said that he's depressed, he suffers anxiety, he's bi polar, he's BPD or simply he's just a crank.

There is some form of issue here. I was speaking to my mother this evening and she's quite upset with him as he's swinging into one of his moods and is starting to get very aggressive again over some stupid clerical error someone made at work. She's tried talking to him about it but he's being completely irrational about everything.

I don't know why I am actually looking for here, maybe some sort of closure about what the hell is wrong with him? I don't know..I am tired and fed up to the back teeth with this whole thing

Taltos

Sorry OP - per our charter we cannot offer medical advice or a diagnosis. Doing so can result in a ban.
However, if you are happy to get advice on how to deal with this personally or how to maybe help your mother we will leave this thread open.

Emme

OP, you are describing my father to a T. From my experience there is absolutely nothing you can do to improve the situation. My mother put up with everything, encouraged me to do the same and has always justified his abuse by constantly saying "he's good at the back of it all", "he's not too bad, every house is like that" and "he cares for us but doesn't know how to show it". My reply to every one of those statements is "bull****!" From what I have seen my father is a selfish indulged man who knows he can get his own way by shouting, roaring, bullying and intimidation. If you say anything he disagrees with he will take it personally, shout and roar and hold onto it as a grudge with the infinity of other grudges he likes to carry around with him. Unfortunately he's too old to change now.

I don't know how old your father is but he is very unlikely to change at this stage. If anything he will get worse. He may be depressed, he may not but not everyone who's depressed behaves like that.

My advice to you is to get out of the family home if you can, distance yourself from the situation with your father as best you can and do it as soon as you can. Whatever his problem there is very little you can do. You can't force him to seek help, if he wants it he will seek it himself, if not he won't. This may be hard to accept but it is unlikely that you can change anything except your own situation. You may never find closure but you can distance yourself from the situation. Distancing yourself from your father is probably your only option. If he's a control freak he might not like that but tough. Take care of yourself because nobody else will.

Call Me Jimmy

fedupwithdad wrote: »

Hi everyone, decided I would go unreg for this.

I am going to try and keep it short and simple(ish). For a long time my family and I have suffered tirades of mental abuse from my father. He was diagnosed with depression a very long time ago but his doctor took him off any medication he was on as he has blood pressure problems and the meds were not agreeing. Anyway in the last few years he seems to be getting worse and I honestly don't think he has depression.

He goes into what we call "moods". If he didn't have thing his way or something messed up or if you said one little criticism he would just fly off the handle and start roaring, ranting and rav ing. If there was a problem at work, we got the brunt of it when he got home. He's never hit us or harmed us anyway physically but the amount of roaring and shouting did enough damage. He's a very self absorbed and selfish person. He can also be quite ignorant to others feelings and doesn't seem to think that he's ever wrong and that he is always right.

Another thing he does is pretend to people outside the family that everything is fine. One evening he got into one his "moods" with my mother. She ignores him when he's like this but at the same time the atmosphere is so tense and you can feel the dread. Anyway he was like this for the best part of the evening but a neighbour called over for a chat. Straight away he snapped out of this mood and pretended everything was ok. He's done this so many times to us growing up.

He also has a persecution complex too. Anything that goes wrong..something stupid like not having money in the bank because he was paid late..he'll blame himself for it and swing off into one of these moods. He can also be quite aggressive and viscous and it's getting worse as he's getting older.

We've tried getting him to go see a counsellor or anyone that can help us but he always makes excuses about money or work. I am not 100% sure if he can go any medication to relax him as his doctor is very fussy with what he's taking for his blood pressure. I've talked to the man so many times, we all have but he just doesn't want to hear it or he just tells you to fuddle off somewhere and leave him alone or worse still, plays dumb.

Anyone I have talked to about him have their theories about what it is that is wrong with him. Friends and family have down through the years said that he's depressed, he suffers anxiety, he's bi polar, he's BPD or simply he's just a crank.

There is some form of issue here. I was speaking to my mother this evening and she's quite upset with him as he's swinging into one of his moods and is starting to get very aggressive again over some stupid clerical error someone made at work. She's tried talking to him about it but he's being completely irrational about everything.

I don't know why I am actually looking for here, maybe some sort of closure about what the hell is wrong with him? I don't know..I am tired and fed up to the back teeth with this whole thing

Every single word, I thought you were one of my siblings because you just described my dad. There is very little you can do with a person like this except create your own space and boundaries and just do not engage with him if he is acting unacceptably. Easier said than done with someone like that.

Questioning what is wrong with him is only going to be a waste of your energy as no matter what is wrong with him he will not change, unless it came to some sort of SERIOUS head. But even then, after a few weeks he would be back to his old self. The only thing you can do is limit your time in his company and limit your emotional investment. That's what I've had to do anyway.

Tramps Like Us

So he was diagnosed with depression, but you know better and don't think he has? Right.

Call Me Jimmy

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

So he was diagnosed with depression, but you know better and don't think he has? Right.

Find it odd that you would pick up on that point when no diagnosis excuses that type of behavior especially over the period of most of his adult life.

Tramps Like Us

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Find it odd that you would pick up on that point when no diagnosis excuses that type of behavior especially over the period of most of his adult life.

I never said it excuses it did I? Don't put words in my mouth.

It is however a mitigating factor which can help explain the moods, you can't just write off the fact that someone has depression and was on medication etc because you don't (want to?) believe it.

Emme

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

I never said it excuses it did I? Don't put words in my mouth.

It is however a mitigating factor which can help explain the moods, you can't just write off the fact that someone has depression and was on medication etc because you don't (want to?) believe it.

Not everyone with depression behaves like the OP's father. Some will for a short period of time but with treatment they will more than likely improve. I don't know how long the OP's father has behaved like this but it is likely that her mother may have protected the children from his behavior up to the a certain point and when they became aware of it they might have thought depression made him aggressive. If he has blood pressure problems he may have an aggressive "Type A" personality but even with that his behaviour is out of the ordinary and unreasonable. Such people don't always respond well to antidepressants because depression may not be the main cause of their behaviour. Depression certainly wouldn't help the OP's father, but it is unlikely his behaviour is entirely due to depression.

Again I will say there is very little she can do except distance herself from the situation.

Call Me Jimmy

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

I never said it excuses it did I? Don't put words in my mouth.

It is however a mitigating factor which can help explain the moods, you can't just write off the fact that someone has depression and was on medication etc because you don't (want to?) believe it.

I don't think it's even a mitigating factor - it's incidental. Believing it or not is irrelevant in my opinion. Anyone who has experience with this type of personality knows that the explanation doesn't even matter because the level of manipulation and emotional abuse being spread to the people closest to them means that it becomes a question of damage limitation by staying away from that person if the quality of their own lives are to be considered.

There are people of this personality type with and without depression, the advice remains the same.

username123

Yeah, my father was like this too, but he was an alcoholic and basically used all the bad behaviour to protect his addiction.

My mother enabled it all. OPs mother is doing the same.

The best you can take from this is to learn not to be like either of your parents and instead communicate with people respectfully and honestly.

IrishEyes19

Can't offer medical advice as per charter, but can offer similar experiences. Not with my parents, but close relative. I know you are angry and fustrated with him, but I will argue that you thinking he isnt depressed is unfounded. What you have described fits the depression bill perfectly. And depression comes in many different forms, people often think its the case of someone who sits in a dark room all day and shuts out the world. But its not that black and white. Its actually much more sinister. My relative for example managed to fool the outside world that they were ok and managing but when the door was closed would seep back into the depression they had. It was a false method of pretending everything was ok because they were so afraid they would be taken away if the outside world discovered. Their moods would go up and down like a rollarcoaster, they would withdraw deeply into themselves and every conversation was about them, they had no interest in anyone else. And they would over react to most situations and under react then to things they shouldnt.

Im not berating you by the way. Its so hard to deal with this. Because nothing you say ever gets through to them. You have to understand, you wont get through to them. But medication is essential. I wont go into details as I cant, but counselling alone isnt enough for what you have described. And Ive said it already but its so important, the snapping out of it when people come over a is a widespread trait in this condition. they arent snapping out of it per se, they are just focusing solely on pretending to look normal.

I know you have tried but you need to try the doctor again. but go down the medication route too. Look at your options. the outcome for my relative was very positive and they were at the bottom of it, OP. Now they are on medication and honestly they are happy and functioning normally again. I wouldnt exactly go alienating your father straight away. I said it then and Il say it again. No one would choose to be that way, that miserable, that tetchy and wound up. But sometimes people lose their way, it overcomes them. Depression is a terrible disease. It really robs the person of their character and personality. Im just suggesting you dont give up yet. Mental disease is so destructive and you cant fight it alone. you'd like to think someone did the same for you, even if you were completely difficult to handle. give it another shot.

LegacyUser

OP here. First of all thanks for the advice guys but some things that I need to clear up.

I know I said I don't think it's depression. What I MEANT to say was I don't think it's just depression and I honestly think there's something else there. So to those who think I don't believe he has depression, I do. I just think that there's something a bit more to it than that. I know depression isn't just black and white and it varies from person to person but I honestly believe that my fathers depression is just one of many things. His temper, his rages, his sudden mood swings, his lack of remorse and pure ignorance of others feelings, his tendency to over react, he has a superiority and persecution complex, he's narcissistic, willing to pick fights and cause emotional havoc, it just seems to be a bit more sinister than depression in my opinion anyway. I know the charter says no one can diagnose him. That's grand I don't really mind as such, I know I came here looking for closure but advice on how to deal with him has being greatly appreciated and again I thank you all for that!

Secondly I don't mean to nit pick and argue with anyone here but someone mentioned that my mother was enabling my father. I am sorry but I don't think she is or ever has done. She never said it was normal behaviour or covered it up. She protected us from it in fairness when we were growing up, that's true, but when we got older she was always honest about why she was protecting us. She couldn't exactly go to anyone for help except the doctor, or had anywhere to go with four kids. We weren't rolling around in money either so she didn't have too many options. She fought tooth and nail with him to get help and is still fighting tooth and nail with him to seek out help, we all are but she's worn out from it and I can't blame her either.

I am taking on board the advice that ye have given and I will try to keep as much distance as possible. I think at this stage myself and my family will consider talking to someone ourselves about him and try and get this sorted out once and for all. I really don't want to give up on him but just the damage he has done over the years nearly out weighs the good he's done.

I thank you all again for your advice. It's being much appreciated.

Emme

That's good advice but some people simply don't respond to medication because of their underlying personality. It can apply to different conditions as well as depression. I know of two retired men in the same area who were diagnosed with sleep apnoea. Before diagnosis both spent most of their time dozing on and off during the day. One of the men had been a happy go lucky type and the other was like the OP's father but on treatment for depression which curbed his aggression a little but not much. Ironically the sleep apnea had mellowed him over a few years because he spent so much time sleeping.

Both men got the same treatment. The happy go lucky man was restored to his cheerful sleep after sleep apnoea treatment. Because of this the family of the other man hoped the treatment would cheer him up. It did the opposite. The aggressive man was indeed more alert and rested with the sleep apnoea treatment, but even though he is on antidepressants he has become more aggressive and he terrorises his family more than he ever did. His wife literally sits in a corner shaking afraid to say or do anything. His children have stopped visiting.

My point is no matter what you do some people are aggressive bullies and no amount of anti-depressants can change innate egotism and selfishness. Some people have what is called narcissistic personality disorder or are sociopathic/psychopathic. Such people are unable to empathise with others, they are highly manipulative and can turn the charm on and off at will. These people tend to get worse with age. You can do nothing with these people except keep your distance.

Emme

fedupwithdad wrote: »

OP here. First of all thanks for the advice guys but some things that I need to clear up.

I know I said I don't think it's depression. What I MEANT to say was I don't think it's just depression and I honestly think there's something else there. So to those who think I don't believe he has depression, I do. I just think that there's something a bit more to it than that. I know depression isn't just black and white and it varies from person to person but I honestly believe that my fathers depression is just one of many things. His temper, his rages, his sudden mood swings, his lack of remorse and pure ignorance of others feelings, his tendency to over react, he has a superiority and persecution complex, he's narcissistic, willing to pick fights and cause emotional havoc, it just seems to be a bit more sinister than depression in my opinion anyway. I know the charter says no one can diagnose him. That's grand I don't really mind as such, I know I came here looking for closure but advice on how to deal with him has being greatly appreciated and again I thank you all for that!

That's interesting. This isn't a diagnosis or an attempt at one, but here is are links from a website you might find interesting. Your father may be nothing like this, but it's still worth a look:

http://thenarcissisticlife.com/what-is-narcissistic-rage/

http://thenarcissisticlife.com/my-father-the-narcissist-a-narcissistic-father-is-a-tyrant-and-a-bully/

IrishEyes19

Emme wrote: »

That's good advice but some people simply don't respond to medication because of their underlying personality. It can apply to different conditions as well as depression. I know of two retired men in the same area who were diagnosed with sleep apnoea. Before diagnosis both spent most of their time dozing on and off during the day. One of the men had been a happy go lucky type and the other was like the OP's father but on treatment for depression which curbed his aggression a little but not much. Ironically the sleep apnea had mellowed him over a few years because he spent so much time sleeping.

Both men got the same treatment. The happy go lucky man was restored to his cheerful sleep after sleep apnoea treatment. Because of this the family of the other man hoped the treatment would cheer him up. It did the opposite. The aggressive man was indeed more alert and rested with the sleep apnoea treatment, but even though he is on antidepressants he has become more aggressive and he terrorises his family more than he ever did. His wife literally sits in a corner shaking afraid to say or do anything. His children have stopped visiting.

My point is no matter what you do some people are aggressive bullies and no amount of anti-depressants can change innate egotism and selfishness. Some people have what is called narcissistic personality disorder or are sociopathic/psychopathic. Such people are unable to empathise with others, they are highly manipulative and can turn the charm on and off at will. These people tend to get worse with age. You can do nothing with these people except keep your distance.

I never said medication on its own. Of course there has to be other elements of treatment. I also agree with you on certain points, but I think going as far as sociopath is slightly extreme without concrete medical evidence which isnt allowed here. Apart from that, OP, I think outside help is the only solution. I see what Emme is saying that treatment doesnt always work, but it does in many cases and treatment has to consist of in most cases medication to some extent, counselling, psychriatic evaluation on a frequent basis and actually quite interestingly a change of routine. His routine right now is to hold face to the outside world and inside he's out of control.

I dont believe for a second your mother enabled this. In fact, hats of to her during this because as someone who has witnessed first hand the devestation of dealing with this from a relative. It's unbelievably upsetting for the people close to the person and at times, you have to check yourself not to lose it with them and regret saying something.

get outside help ASAP. You know the whole distancing yourself, fair enough, but nothing will change then. If you feel you dont want to deal with it anymore, you are fully entitled to it, and I know you probably are exhausted from it. But he wont help himself. He cant. People saying oh he is naturally selfish, egotistic ect. Ya he is. But thats part of the disease, there is such a stigma on mentally unwell people in this country. Ive heard people saying how selfish, needy, manipulative, some people are. And again yes. they are, have been. But it comes with the condition. It's like displaying symtoms when you have a physical disease, no one bats an eyelid. But people have no problem labeling mental disease symtoms under the terms selfish, egotistical....ect.

my point is, he cant do this alone. He simply wont. It is up you and your family to decide if you want to proceed outside the house and professionally. Its your choice and no one will berate you for it, should you choose not to. I dont think anyone including myself has the right to be judgemental, you've had a rough time of it Im sure. so best of luck with it.

Emme

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

I never said medication on its own. Of course there has to be other elements of treatment. I also agree with you on certain points, but I think going as far as sociopath is slightly extreme without concrete medical evidence which isnt allowed here. Apart from that, OP, I think outside help is the only solution. I see what Emme is saying that treatment doesnt always work, but it does in many cases and treatment has to consist of in most cases medication to some extent, counselling, psychriatic evaluation on a frequent basis and actually quite interestingly a change of routine. His routine right now is to hold face to the outside world and inside he's out of control.

I dont believe for a second your mother enabled this. In fact, hats of to her during this because as someone who has witnessed first hand the devestation of dealing with this from a relative. It's unbelievably upsetting for the people close to the person and at times, you have to check yourself not to lose it with them and regret saying something.

get outside help ASAP. You know the whole distancing yourself, fair enough, but nothing will change then. If you feel you dont want to deal with it anymore, you are fully entitled to it, and I know you probably are exhausted from it. But he wont help himself. He cant. People saying oh he is naturally selfish, egotistic ect. Ya he is. But thats part of the disease, there is such a stigma on mentally unwell people in this country. Ive heard people saying how selfish, needy, manipulative, some people are. And again yes. they are, have been. But it comes with the condition. It's like displaying symtoms when you have a physical disease, no one bats an eyelid. But people have no problem labeling mental disease symtoms under the terms selfish, egotistical....ect.

my point is, he cant do this alone. He simply wont. It is up you and your family to decide if you want to proceed outside the house and professionally. Its your choice and no one will berate you for it, should you choose not to. I dont think anyone including myself has the right to be judgemental, you've had a rough time of it Im sure. so best of luck with it.

Irisheyes, have you ever encountered somebody like the OP's father? Often these people don't want to change and they will only pretend to go along with what help is offered and then go back to their old ways. The reason for this is that they know the best way they can control others is not to change. You can turn yourself inside out and wear yourself out trying to help these people but they don't want to change. They are vampires. They live off the energy of other people.