Where am I wasting money?

Roy Rogers

Hi all,

I'm upgrading from a 5 year-old semi-custom machine (I picked the parts, supplier built it). I won't lie... my part selection was pretty much dart-throwing. The machine worked fine, but I'm sure there was a lot of waste.

I'm finally getting a new machine and this time I'm doing my homework. I also want to build it myself.

First, the boilerplate:

1. What is your budget? €800-1000.

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Gaming. No specifics, but I've got my eye on Rome 2 and Battlefield 4.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? Yes. I was thinking 7 but I've seen a few posts saying 8 is actually good (with Start8).

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? 2 HDDs (2TB and 750GB, both SATA-II), DVD-RW, card reader.

5. Do you need a monitor? Yes, 22" or bigger (if not too expensive). I have two old Dells (max res 1280*1024) as extras but I won't be using them for gaming.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? I need a mouse and keyboard.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yes.

8. How can you pay? Any form. I plan to buy from HWVD unless I can make serious savings by choosing bits and pieces from different suppliers.

9. When are you purchasing? In the next month or so… no rush if waiting will help.

Here's what I've been tinkering with, using LogicalIncrements.com as a guide.

Item|Price
FRACTAL DESIGN Gehäuse Arc R2 Midi Tower|€88.72
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.66
8GB Kingston HyperX blu. PC3-12800U CL10|€57.62
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€146.98
Intel Core i5-4570 Box, LGA1150|€175.94
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.71
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 600W|€67.81
ASRock Z87 Extreme3, Sockel 1150, ATX|€124.94
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
ASUS HD7870-DC2-2GD5 V2, AMD Radeon HD 7870, 2GB, PCI-Express|€207.89
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€957.16

This price doesn't include an OS, a monitor, or a keyboard.

I'm wondering where I can shave it down. I'd like the machine to be around €800 so I've another €150(ish) for a monitor.

CPU: Am I right in thinking this CPU isn't overclockable? Is there maybe a better option?
Case: Might be overkill. I'm not bothered with anything flashy, but I don't want to cheap out either. I saw some posts mentioning the Shinobi?
Power: How much? I think I saw someone here recommend going with more power to start, so you can buy an additional GFX card for SLI when prices come down.
OS: 7 or 8?

Also: as I'm building it myself, do I need any additional cables or bits'n'pieces? I'm not sure what type of cabling I can rob from my old machine (for example, to hook up the two old HDDs). The configurator on HWVD also recommends thermal paste -- do I need it?

BloodBath

How's this? A bit over budget but a strong build overall.


Item|Price
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.84
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.66
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.89
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€83.99
Cooltek Antiphon Black, ohne Netzteil|€60.72
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SuperClocked AX, 2GB DDR5, PCI-Express|€230.90
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-12800U CL9|€58.63
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 500W|€53.81
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€840.32

Monitor €123

Keyboard €16.50

Windows7 OEM €44

Total €1023

Roy Rogers

That looks quite good... thanks!

I'm not too worried about going a little over budget; I'm hoping to make a few quid flogging parts of the old machine on ebay.

I presume you suggest overclocking the CPU?

Also, would I need the thermal paste HWVD recommend for the CPU, and additional SATA cables for the HDDs from my old machine?

I've just added a mouse to that bundle; monitor, keyboard and OS as you recommended.

Item|Price
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.89
EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SuperClocked AX, 2GB DDR5, PCI-Express|€230.90
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.84
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.66
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-12800U CL9|€58.63
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 500W|€53.81
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€83.99
Cooltek Antiphon Black, ohne Netzteil|€60.72
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Sharkoon FireGlider - Maus - Laser - 7 Taste(n)|€20.93
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€861.25

Serephucus

Yes, definitely overclock. Don't expect miracles with that cooler and chip though. Haswell is extremely lottery-dependant (i.e. you can pretty easily get average or bad chips, where as most anyone that got a 3570K was guaranteed 4.5GHz at least.)

You'll get 4.2 with few problems though, I'd venture.

^ Ignore that. It completely passed me by that Bloodbath had specced you a 3570K. :P

You'll need a couple of SATA cables, as I think the Pro3 only comes with two, but you can just use your existing ones. You should get thermal paste of some sort with the Hyper 212 as well. Won't be the best out there, but we're only talking a couple degrees difference.

Roy Rogers

Sounds good. I'll have a look inside my current box later, try to figure out if I can reuse the cabling.

As for the rest -- from looking at ebay, I should be able to get a few quid for the parts I won't be reusing (Asus P5K P35 S775 mobo, Core 2 Duo E8500 CPU, Geforce 9800GTX+).

Thanks guys.

..Brian..

If you're quite sure you will add another GPU in SLI in the future I would bump the mobo up to this and the PSU up to this. It means an extra €65 ish on the budget now though. So weigh up the pros and cons of just buying the best single GPU you can in another year or two.

Roy Rogers

I'm not actually set on going SLI... it was just something I read here that seemed to make sense!

I'll probably stick with the rig BloodBath recommended. Although I am tempted to splash out for a bigger SSD... I'd like to install a few games to it and 120GB doesn't seem like enough.

game4it70

Roy Rogers wrote: »

I'm not actually set on going SLI... it was just something I read here that seemed to make sense!

I'll probably stick with the rig BloodBath recommended. Although I am tempted to splash out for a bigger SSD... I'd like to install a few games to it and 120GB doesn't seem like enough.

Bf3 is about 32gb with all the ad-ons and i have on my 120gb ssd with windows and few smaller games so it is enough.That being said if you can i would try and get a bigger ssd as nothing worse than having to watch what you install.

Gumbi

Having recently rebuilt my old system, and having a HDD installed, I can attest to the efficacy of SSDs. installing the new AMD drivers alone took about 15 - 20 mins. What a pain. You have a really nice system there that has made no concessions, so anything on top of what's already there is a bonus.

Roy Rogers

That's what I was thinking. BF3 is 32GB, Rome 2 will be 35GB... and installs aren't likely to get smaller as time goes on.

Edit:

I was just researching the case BloodBath recommended -- the Cooltek Antiphon -- and came across this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85288734#post85288734

Apparently the Hyper 212 Evo might not fit. Anyone have this case who could chip in?

..Brian..

Roy Rogers wrote: »

I'm not actually set on going SLI... it was just something I read here that seemed to make sense!

I'll probably stick with the rig BloodBath recommended. Although I am tempted to splash out for a bigger SSD... I'd like to install a few games to it and 120GB doesn't seem like enough.

Definitely, just as you mentioned SLI in your OP I thought it better you know now that the Pro 3 is not great for SLI and you may need more juicy PSU

Roy Rogers

So I've been wondering about this case issue: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85288734&postcount=11

Sprog 4 wrote:

Just a warning though, it will not fit large CPU coolers. I got a Dark Rock 2 which was about 1.5cm too tall and I couldn't close the case. A Hyper 212 Evo is about 1cm shorter and may fit with a bit of a squeeze. I'm new to overclocking but I didn't want to risk squeezing this in as I felt nervous about that putting that kind of extra downward pressure on the CPU (the cooler mount standoffs probably take most of this though?).

The last thing I want is to get my parts and realise the cooler doesn't fit. The Deep Silence 2 seems to be a slightly better (albeit €18 more expensive) case. Most importantly, it's a little wider (20.7cm versus 19.5cm) and longer (58.8cm versus 50cm).

Another €18... Between that and the bigger SSD, I've added another hundred. Bloody scope creep

Item|Price
ASRock Z77 Pro3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€81.89
EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SuperClocked AX, 2GB DDR5, PCI-Express|€230.90
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€200.84
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.66
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-12800U CL9|€58.63
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 500W|€53.81
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
Sharkoon FireGlider - Maus - Laser - 7 Taste(n)|€20.93
Samsung SSD 840 250GB SATA 6Gb/s|€146.98
Arctic Cooling Wärmeleitpaste MX-2 Tube 4g|€3.06
Nanoxia Deep Silence Two Dark Black, ohne Netzteil|€78.92
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€945.50

Monitor: €125
Keyboard: €15
Windows 7 OEM: €44

Icepick

If you want to overclock, get a better cooler, e.g. http://www.hardwareversand.de/Intel+AMD/67116/Thermalright+Macho+120.article

BloodBath

The 212 evo is at least as good as the normal macho and more than enough to get a 3570k to 4.5ghz with decent case airflow.

I'd change the mouse to this. It's much better for a little more.

I'm pretty sure the 212 evo fits as I've been recommending that come here for a while and no complaints yet but the Nanoxia is a better case if you want to spend the extra.

I wouldn't worry too much about putting games on the ssd. A single wd caviar blue 1tb makes the perfect games drive. It's reasonably fast and has plenty of capacity.

Roy Rogers

A 120GB SSD + 1TB WD Caviar Blue will cost roughly the same as a 240GB SSD. I've already got two old HDDs with 2.75GB storage so I think I'll stick with the bigger SSD for now.

I've been playing around with a PSU calculator and I wonder if the 500W is enough? The calculator seem to recommend at least 650W, and that's without overclocking.

I've been using this -- http://support.asus.com/powersupply.aspx -- with the following choices:

Motherboard: Desktop
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K
VGA Card: Nvidia GTX760 (x1)
Memory: DDR3
Storage: DVD/CR-RW Combo (x1), HDD (x3)
USB: 3 (mouse, keyboard, the occasional portable hard drive)
PCI: 1 (wireless network card)
Fan: 3 (stock fans in the case)
Result: 650W

The Outervision calculator seems to have a better reputation, but even that recommends 519W without overclocking.

Shaun98

Hey you guys seem to know what you are talking about, could you give me a hand?
I am buying parts to build a gaming PC from mapplins and I was recommended some specs by one of the staff, the PSU, GRFX Card and Case are all good, but they sent me a link to a"gaming bundle". Heres the link..http://www.maplin.co.uk/black-ice-quad-core-amd-fx-4100-asus-board-bundle--4gb-amd-memory-626351

But after searching they're site, i think i found the exact same bundle but with 8Gb of RAM instead of 4Gb,for a cheaper price, here is the link...http://www.maplin.co.uk/quad-core-amd-fx-4100-asus-board-bundle--8gb-memory-628056
OI would really love if someone could help me with this kind of thing as I'm not very good with PC's, I know how to work them and all but I'm not sure of what parts I should be looking at!
Thanks.

Gumbi

Shaun98 wrote: »

Hey you guys seem to know what you are talking about, could you give me a hand?
I am buying parts to build a gaming PC from mapplins and I was recommended some specs by one of the staff, the PSU, GRFX Card and Case are all good, but they sent me a link to a"gaming bundle". Heres the link..http://www.maplin.co.uk/black-ice-quad-core-amd-fx-4100-asus-board-bundle--4gb-amd-memory-626351

But after searching they're site, i think i found the exact same bundle but with 8Gb of RAM instead of 4Gb,for a cheaper price, here is the link...http://www.maplin.co.uk/quad-core-amd-fx-4100-asus-board-bundle--8gb-memory-628056
OI would really love if someone could help me with this kind of thing as I'm not very good with PC's, I know how to work them and all but I'm not sure of what parts I should be looking at!
Thanks.

Brick and mortar shops tend to be very expensive. It's a bit of a contract indication, too, but those bundles are almot always overpriced too.

Your best bet is to fill out a thread of your own, tell us what you need the computer for, what you have to spend on it etc and we can help you out.

BloodBath

I've been playing around with a PSU calculator and I wonder if the 500W is enough? The calculator seem to recommend at least 650W, and that's without overclocking.

That pc will use 300-350w tops even with overclocking so yes 500w is enough.

Roy Rogers

Deadly. I'm going to sit on this for a week or so since some of the parts are out of stock, but I'm pretty happy with the build and looking forward to putting it together! Thanks again BloodBath.