can boss charge for breakage?

LegacyUser

Can our boss charge us as servers for broken dishes? He says it's way out of hand because the place only has 10 tables in it and there are at least 8 broken glasses or dishes per week so he wants to buy the next box using our tips.

Gaillimh1976

He could be threatening to do it, hoping that it will make ye more careful, but not actually do it ?

Also, i don't think he can unless its stated in your contract or terms of employment, but I know the last 2 places my missus worked in the contract said they could charge for 'excessive level of breakage' and that it was up to management to decide what is 'excessive'


Might be worth a read of your contract/handbook/terms & conditions

(and if you don't have those in writing your employer is breaking the law, but thats a whole other thread.........)

gozunda

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

He could be threatening to do it, hoping that it will make ye more careful, but not actually do it ?

Also, i don't think he can unless its stated in your contract or terms of employment, but I know the last 2 places my missus worked in the contract said they could charge for 'excessive level of breakage' and that it was up to management to decide what is 'excessive'


Might be worth a read of your contract/handbook/terms & conditions

(and if you don't have those in writing your employer is breaking the law, but thats a whole other thread.........)

Ah just like times of old! I have seen details regarding Servants conditions in the 1800's where the cost of any delph/china broken was deducted from their (meagre) wages

Good to see such traditions haven't gone away'

See

http://www.hinchhouse.org.uk/ninth/ech.html

LegacyUser

In all fairness, if they're breaking way above the average, SOMETHING has to be done. They can't just be careless and expect that the money to buy new dishes will come out f thin air

tatli_lokma

I would say that it is not unreasonable to make deductions to wages to cover - as others have said - excessive breakages. I am assuming that this would be the last straw and only done after a warning to be more careful was issued. But the provision to do so would have to be in your contract.

citizensinformation.ie wrote:

Where your employer suffers loss through your fault, for example breakages or till shortages or your employer supplies a service as part of the job, for example, a uniform, deductions may be allowed. In these cases a deduction (or payment by the employee) is only allowed where:

•It is allowed for in your contract
•It is fair and reasonable
•You have received a written notice of the deduction - a full week's notice if the deduction arises from your mistake
•The amount of the deduction does not exceed the loss or cost of the service
•The deduction takes place within 6 months of the loss/cost occurring
Failure to pay all or part of the wages due to an employee is considered an unlawful deduction and a complaint can be made under the Payment of Wages Act – see ‘How to apply’ below. Likewise, unpaid notice, holiday pay, bonus and commission payments can also form part of a claim under the Act.

But, I don't think they would have the right to take the money from your tips as this is not a part of your salary and therefore they have no right to deduct from it. But I am open to correction on that.

Nody

tatli_lokma wrote: »

But, I don't think they would have the right to take the money from your tips as this is not a part of your salary and therefore they have no right to deduct from it. But I am open to correction on that.

If the tip is not written into their contract (and esp. if they don't declare the additional income themselves) I'd say the other way around. Undeclared income not covered by contract? Good luck on challenging that one (it would end up the lines of someone working with cash under the table complaining about not getting a raise)...

tatli_lokma

I suppose it would be a great one for the unions to fight out though! If it is not salaried income and distributed via salary, then it could be argued that this money is personal money of the staff, and not money of the employer. In which case the employer can't take money out of the tip jar as it's not his or under his control. If the staff kicked up a fuss the employer probably couldn't do a lot about it other than make the deduction from the salary instead. A lot would probably depend on how the tips are organised and by whom and who doles out the tips and in what method. I know of a few places (mainly in the beauty industry) where tips must be entered into the till against each staff member's name. The bosses then include this in their salary and they are taxed on it. In such cases then the employer could deduct (provided contractual agreements are in place) from the tips in this way, but if the money goes straight into a staff members pocket or a tip jar maintained by the staff themselves, then it could be seen as theft.

Whether or not each staff member declares this income for tax is a seperate issue.

But we are getting a bit off topic now!

But I would love to hear the unions view on this! I reckon it could be quite entertaining!

Mrs OBumble

tatli_lokma wrote: »

But, I don't think they would have the right to take the money from your tips as this is not a part of your salary and therefore they have no right to deduct from it. But I am open to correction on that.

On the other hand, I don't think that staff have any "right" to the tips, unless it's written into the contract.

Custom and practise is that they usually get them, shared out in whatever way management decide. But I don't think it's legally required. So my guess is that an employer would be well within their rights to reduce the variable performance bonus to account for instances on non-performance, like breakages.

gozunda

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

On the other hand, I don't think that staff have any "right" to the tips, unless it's written into the contract.

Custom and practise is that they usually get them, shared out in whatever way management decide. But I don't think it's legally required. So my guess is that an employer would be well within their rights to reduce the variable performance bonus to account for instances on non-performance, like breakages.

^ this is the reason I tip directly for good service. Tips are given by customers for good service etc and are for the benefit of staff and not generally anyone else. Though I have came across some companies attempt to subsidise paying staff by including an automatic gratuity in your bill. Any place that has attempted this with me has been either being avoided or I refused to do so.

Again I can't see how some one else's breakages can be hoisted on all staff by dictate

The OP does not give details that it is actually the staff doing the breakages. or what evaluation the employer is using to judge 'excessive breakages'

Do customers in restaurants get charged where the break plates or other items - the answer is no. These breakages are absorbed within business costs.

Wear and tear and depreciation are a normal part of business accountancy that are allowed for. China / delph does not last forever - stuff gets chipped, cracked etc and must be disposed of.

Maybe this company should just start using enamel ware or plastic if they really can't deal with the realities of something getting broken.

If there is one person smashing plates against the wall then that is a different matter and the employer needs to deal with this as per normal employment guidelines / structures.

Mrs OBumble

gozunda wrote: »

^ this is the reason I tip directly for good service. Tips are given by customers for good service etc and are for the benefit of staff and not generally anyone else. .

So your tips go to the waitress who serves you, and not the chef, kitchen staff, cleaners etc who contribute to making it possible for the waitress to give you good service.

Do you realise that any reasonable place has a policy saying that any that any tips given to a staff member get put into the general pot? And that not doing so could be enough to get soemone fired?

Scrag

Tips that are paid on a credit card is the property of the Management/owner and is disbursed at the discretion of the owner. He is legally entitled to hold all or some of this. Again as many say please be more careful if the breakages are excessive.

gozunda

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So your tips go to the waitress who serves you, and not the chef, kitchen staff, cleaners etc who contribute to making it possible for the waitress to give you good service.

Do you realise that any reasonable place has a policy saying that any that any tips given to a staff member get put into the general pot? And that not doing so could be enough to get soemone fired?

I dont believe I mentioned waitress/waiter in the last post - I referred to "good service' Tips are at the discretion of the giver. I don't quite agree about the 'any reasonable place' especially if I have reason to think that tips are not going to staff members (& not always the waiter etc) who has provided good service but instead are being requisitioned for employer benefit as in this case.

I would point out again that the OP does not specify that the breakages are being caused by the staff or even covers general breakages by customers / wear and tear etc

To be honest I am not aware of any law that backups the firing of an employee to accept a gift from a customer and If included under company guidelines then I presume that such guidelines would also protect the Tips for staff use as you said.

Nody

gozunda wrote: »

I dont believe I mentioned waitress/waiter in the last post - I referred to "good service' Tips are at the discretion of the giver. I don't quite agree about the 'any reasonable place' especially if I have reason to think that tips are not going to staff members (& not always the waiter etc) who has provided good service but instead are being requisitioned for employer benefit as in this case.

I would point out again that the OP does not specify that the breakages are being caused by the staff or even covers general breakages by customers / wear and tear etc

To be honest I am not aware of any law that backups the firing of an employee to accept a gift from a customer and If included under company guidelines then I presume that such guidelines would also protect the Tips for staff use as you said.

Why? The rule would most likely ready something like "Any gifts from guests needs to be put in a common pool to be distributed as management sees fit between employees and the company".

LegacyUser

OP here ...


we split the tips amongst everyone - we all work the same hours in a shift and the tips are divided evenly everyday by whoever is on shift ; our manager trusts us to do this.

he keeps track by broken glasses because 1) he knows how many he bought and when 2) we have a bucket for all broken glass that gets emptied each week. everyday he checks it to see what's in it and who has been on shift. it is mainly one guy because he is too fast and careless but isn't visual PROOF it's him - he just happens to be the one on shift when the most things get broken.

No Pants

For the purposes of taking this action, would the employer have to keep a general log of breakage? That way it could be proven that breakage is on the increase.

LegacyUser

yeah - they empty the broken dish bin each week and after 7 days it's beyond full - so full we had to get another empty bucket cos there was no room in the first one.