E-Jet/CRJ vs ATRs?

MuffinsDa

I had the opportunity to fly on an E-170 while visiting Japan recently. It was a very pleasant and smooth flight lasting 1 hour. The aircraft felt the same as any larger Jet, spacious and relatively quiet.

It got me thinking, it looks like a suitable option for operations out of a base like Dublin, as a direct replacement for the likes of ATR-72s and as a smaller alternative to A319/320s. Has it been considered by Aer Lingus, and is there a reason that they have invested in going with Aer Arann ATR solution instead? Is there a business/cost advantage in using ATRs vs the smallest E-Jets (or the like of CRJ-200/700/900)? just curious!

Jiveartist

They could never match the fuel efficiency of an Atr72 it just would not be economical enough. Atr have never been busier with a full order book, what does that tell you. Operators are trying to hand back regional jets at the moment.

IRLConor

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I had the opportunity to fly on an E-170 while visiting Japan recently. It was a very pleasant and smooth flight lasting 1 hour. The aircraft felt the same as any larger Jet, spacious and relatively quiet.

It got me thinking, it looks like a suitable option for operations out of a base like Dublin, as a direct replacement for the likes of ATR-72s and as a smaller alternative to A319/320s. Has it been considered by Aer Lingus, and is there a reason that they have invested in going with Aer Arann ATR solution instead? Is there a business/cost advantage in using ATRs vs the smallest E-Jets (or the like of CRJ-200/700/900)? just curious!

A quick google for costs brought up this: http://theflyingengineer.com/2013/01/24/air-costa-set-to-fly-with-embraer-emb-170-jets/

which contains this quote:

The ATR 72-500/600 burns roughly 760kg/hr, and claims a range of around 825 nautical miles (NM) with 70 passengers at 95kg each. The Embraer 170 burns roughly 1,400kg per hour, but claims a range of close to 2,000 NM with 70 passengers, or a little less than 1,500NM with 80 passengers, at 100kg each.

From that, I can only assume that the Embraer makes sense if you need more speed and/or range than the ATR can give you. If you don't need extra speed/range the ATR is half the price to run.

I'm sure the real analysis is a lot more complicated than that (and I don't know how accurate those figures are) but I suspect that another deciding factor was that Aer Arann was there, flying ATRs and covering routes that EI couldn't or didn't want to do.

MuffinsDa

Interersting! Thanks for that IRLConor and JiveArtist

smurfjed

The E170 is an airliner with proper onboard baggage storage, totally unlike the CRJ and the ATR. But they are expensive when compared to turboprops and they really don't save time on the majority of routes. We have routes that use airports that don't have fuel facilities, so the landing aircraft had to have the required fuel for the next sector, the ATR or the CRJ were just not able to do these routes. The jets also have the ability to climb above what we call the temperature haze layer (usually 1/2 the ground temperature x1,000 feet) so the ride is smoother and there is sufficient time for a real cabin service. I would also assume that the turboprops have a lower runway weight footprint which may be more beneficial for regional airports. Then you need to assess maintenance issues and the capital costs. So all in all, there isnt any one thing that will lead you to buy a jet over a TP.

I had the pleasure of riding along on a 20 hour E170 delivery journey from Sao Jose Dos Compos. They really are a nice aircraft.

keroseneboy

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I had the opportunity to fly on an E-170 while visiting Japan recently. It was a very pleasant and smooth flight lasting 1 hour. The aircraft felt the same as any larger Jet, spacious and relatively quiet.

It got me thinking, it looks like a suitable option for operations out of a base like Dublin, as a direct replacement for the likes of ATR-72s and as a smaller alternative to A319/320s. Has it been considered by Aer Lingus, and is there a reason that they have invested in going with Aer Arann ATR solution instead? Is there a business/cost advantage in using ATRs vs the smallest E-Jets (or the like of CRJ-200/700/900)? just curious!

When EI identified a need for a jet smaller than their A320's, they considered the Embraer E Jets. They opted in the end for the Airbus A319 for their Belfast and Gatwivk bases.

ballooba

You couldn't sell "eejits" to Irish consumers.

keroseneboy

Funnily enough, Embraer's sales director of the ejet for europe is an Irishman names Slattery