Paramedic Pay Scales

brianon

Hi Guys. Just a quick question. A few years back the pay scales for new recruits (EMT/Parmedics) took a 10% cut.

Am I right in saying that this been reversed recently (Croke Park thingy) ? and that the new recruits and Green Hours (instead of overtime - over the basic 39 per week) is no longer in place ?

antichrist

The 10% cut has not been reversed.
New entrants are on a lower pay scale than members that joined pre 2010

brianon

antichrist wrote: »

The 10% cut has not been reversed.
New entrants are on a lower pay scale than members that joined pre 2010

Oh. I had heard it was reversed recently.

ParaHappyman

Is it not mentioned and a part of the haddington road agreement that the extra 10% cut is to be reversed for new entrants (ie they were down 20% in total) ??

brianon

Maybe I read the agreement incorrectly...

New Entrant Salary Scales: In order to address the imbalance between those who entered the Public Service since 2011 and those who entered before that date, revised incremental salary scales shall be prepared for same grade entrants to each public service sector as necessary to incorporate the revision of salary scales introduced by Government Decision in January 2011

uhohno

brianon wrote: »

Maybe I read the agreement incorrectly...

Was going to create a new post on this as it effects not just paramedics but might as well add to this related thread.

Looks like they've created a new pay scale. Instead of the old 9 increments, they've now introduced 2 new points on the scale making the revised 2013 scale 11 points.

The old 9 point scale 1-9 is now 3-11 on the new scale. The new pay points are 1 and 2.

Employess who weren't part of the 10% cuts will be moved to the new scale at a pay point +2 from their current one. This will mean they move to a pay point on the new 11 point scale that matches exactly their current salary.

Employees who were subject to the 10% in 2010 will be moved over to the new scale also. They however are being shafted again and are not being bumped up 2 levels on this scale!

So the 10% being given back is a joke. They in fact are being treated once more differently to everybody else. Instead of getting 10% back they get about 3% back now and slowly the rest over the next 10 years or so. Losing out on 20k+.

Example
Employee 1 who started in 2009 is on Pay Point 4 will move to Pay Point 6 of the revised scale.
Employee 2 who started in 2010 is on Pay Point 3 will move to Pay Point 3 of the revised scale.

*Oh and new employess will stay at the new revised Pay Point 1 (which if the same as Pay Point 1 on the 10% effected scale of 2010!) for two years instead of one year before moving to the next level.

bono_v

uhohno wrote: »

Was going to create a new post on this as it effects not just paramedics but might as well add to this related thread.

Looks like they've created a new pay scale. Instead of the old 9 increments, they've now introduced 2 new points on the scale making the revised 2013 scale 11 points.

The old 9 point scale 1-9 is now 3-11 on the new scale. The new pay points are 1 and 2.

Employess who weren't part of the 10% cuts will be moved to the new scale at a pay point +2 from their current one. This will mean they move to a pay point on the new 11 point scale that matches exactly their current salary.

Employees who were subject to the 10% in 2010 will be moved over to the new scale also. They however are being shafted again and are not being bumped up 2 levels on this scale!

So the 10% being given back is a joke. They in fact are being treated once more differently to everybody else. Instead of getting 10% back they get about 3% back now and slowly the rest over the next 10 years or so. Losing out on 20k+.

Example
Employee 1 who started in 2009 is on Pay Point 4 will move to Pay Point 6 of the revised scale.
Employee 2 who started in 2010 is on Pay Point 3 will move to Pay Point 3 of the revised scale.

*Oh and new employess will stay at the new revised Pay Point 1 (which if the same as Pay Point 1 on the 10% effected scale of 2010!) for two years instead of one year before moving to the next level.

Hi uhohno,
Have you got a link or source to this info?
Thanks very much.

Juanito13

uhohno wrote: »

Was going to create a new post on this as it effects not just paramedics but might as well add to this related thread.

Looks like they've created a new pay scale. Instead of the old 9 increments, they've now introduced 2 new points on the scale making the revised 2013 scale 11 points.

The old 9 point scale 1-9 is now 3-11 on the new scale. The new pay points are 1 and 2.

Employess who weren't part of the 10% cuts will be moved to the new scale at a pay point +2 from their current one. This will mean they move to a pay point on the new 11 point scale that matches exactly their current salary.

Employees who were subject to the 10% in 2010 will be moved over to the new scale also. They however are being shafted again and are not being bumped up 2 levels on this scale!

So the 10% being given back is a joke. They in fact are being treated once more differently to everybody else. Instead of getting 10% back they get about 3% back now and slowly the rest over the next 10 years or so. Losing out on 20k+.

Example
Employee 1 who started in 2009 is on Pay Point 4 will move to Pay Point 6 of the revised scale.
Employee 2 who started in 2010 is on Pay Point 3 will move to Pay Point 3 of the revised scale.

*Oh and new employess will stay at the new revised Pay Point 1 (which if the same as Pay Point 1 on the 10% effected scale of 2010!) for two years instead of one year before moving to the next level.

Looks like it's kicking in from this week, basic salary has gone up, also got a lump payment. Same for anyone else i've spoken to.

antichrist

Juanito13 wrote: »

Looks like it's kicking in from this week, basic salary has gone up, also got a lump payment. Same for anyone else i've spoken to.

I take it you mean for new staff (post 2010)?

Juanito13

antichrist wrote: »

I take it you mean for new staff (post 2010)?

Yes, anyone who started post 2010.

Juanito13

antichrist wrote: »

I take it you mean for new staff (post 2010)?

Yes, anyone who started post 2010.

Bradford82

Hi, does anyone know the current pay scale for a PHECC registered paramedic with the HSE? I can't find them anywhere online and any info I can find seems to suggest that EMT's and paramedics are on the same scale which seems very strange considering the increased responsibilities and training of a paramedic. The scale also starts at about 26 grand which seems very low for a trained paramedic.

sci-ops

Bradford82 wrote: »

Hi, does anyone know the current pay scale for a PHECC registered paramedic with the HSE? I can't find them anywhere online and any info I can find seems to suggest that EMT's and paramedics are on the same scale which seems very strange considering the increased responsibilities and training of a paramedic. The scale also starts at about 26 grand which seems very low for a trained paramedic.

It's all there on the HSE website, under staff benefits > pay.

Pay Grades for Paramedics = Emergency Medical Technicians (6463)(Student= 6453, Leads=6464), while the EMT's are listed as Intermediate Care Operatives (6133).

You can see the scale for Paramedics, listed as Emergency Medical Technicians pg 25.
ICO's are not listed as such, but match the pay scale of 'Drivers who duties include the transport of patients and clients on Public roads' pg 27

Bradford82

Ok thanks. That's what I found also but I was looking for a paramedic pay scale. I didn't realise that they are under EMT also. I can't see the numbers you are quoting on the November 2013 revised consolidated pay scales.

Seems very low pay for a highly skilled job. I was under the impression a few years ago that once you are trained the scale for a registered paramedic begins at about 35 grand. I know you get unsociable hours allowances but I didn't think the basic was so low. I'm on the panel to be trained but might have to rethink my plan as I'd be taking a big pay cut for a more stressful job.

I've also been told that paramedics in some areas are only given their roster on a Saturday for the week ahead and can be moved to different bases at will. Not ideal if you have a young family.

GoProGaming

Bradford82 wrote: »

Ok thanks. That's what I found also but I was looking for a paramedic pay scale. I didn't realise that they are under EMT also. I can't see the numbers you are quoting on the November 2013 revised consolidated pay scales.

Seems very low pay for a highly skilled job. I was under the impression a few years ago that once you are trained the scale for a registered paramedic begins at about 35 grand. I know you get unsociable hours allowances but I didn't think the basic was so low. I'm on the panel to be trained but might have to rethink my plan as I'd be taking a big pay cut for a more stressful job.

I've also been told that paramedics in some areas are only given their roster on a Saturday for the week ahead and can be moved to different bases at will. Not ideal if you have a young family.

I dont mean to sound rude but typically that is the sort of details you research before applying to the role.

The pay is what it is and the unsocial hours would top it up.

New staff are non rostered so would typically find out toward the end of the week what their next week holds. When someone dies/ retires you can then get a rostered spot.

bono_v

GoProGaming wrote: »

I dont mean to sound rude but typically that is the sort of details you research before applying to the role.

The pay is what it is and the unsocial hours would top it up.

New staff are non rostered so would typically find out toward the end of the week what their next week holds. When someone dies/ retires you can then get a rostered spot.

Bare in mind there's probably about 400 non rostered staff in the service at the moment so they are all ahead of you in the pecking order. I've heard of lads waiting 10-15 years for a rostered. If you've a young family there is nothing tougher or more stressful on family life. You can't plan anything. Imagine not bring able to plan anything for 10-15 years.

Bang Bang

bono_v wrote: »

Bare in mind there's probably about 400 non rostered staff in the service at the moment so they are all ahead of you in the pecking order. I've heard of lads waiting 10-15 years for a rostered. If you've a young family there is nothing tougher or more stressful on family life. You can't plan anything. Imagine not bring able to plan anything for 10-15 years.

Which regions are quoting up to 15 years for staff holding non rostered positions?

As for the number of staff currently non rostered, although in the hundreds, have all put in their preferred regions and stations, rostered staff have put in their expressions of interest. Not all the "400" are seeking to locate to the same station, or indeed the same region, so it is not as gloomy a picture as you've attempted to paint.

Bradford82

Bang Bang wrote: »

Which regions are quoting up to 15 years for staff holding non rostered positions?

As for the number of staff currently non rostered, although in the hundreds, have all put in their preferred regions and stations, rostered staff have put in their expressions of interest. Not all the "400" are seeking to locate to the same station, or indeed the same region, so it is not as gloomy a picture as you've attempted to paint.

So is the plan for all staff to be rostered eventually? What about new recruits?

Is there anyone on here that went through the previous recruitment panel (2009 I think) and is now working as a paramedic that wouldn't mind me contacting them directly to get a full picture of the job and the service as a newly qualified paramedic?

When I applied several years ago now I was all gung ho about becoming a paramedic but my circumstances have changed somewhat (young family on the way) like many candidates and I'm now wondering if I'm mad changing from a tough but flexible well paid job to a service that seems to have a lot of issues, can't roster staff and doesn't pay that well considering the responsibilities involved.

Bang Bang

Bradford82 wrote: »

So is the plan for all staff to be rostered eventually? What about new recruits?

Is there anyone on here that went through the previous recruitment panel (2009 I think) and is now working as a paramedic that wouldn't mind me contacting them directly to get a full picture of the job and the service as a newly qualified paramedic?

When I applied several years ago now I was all gung ho about becoming a paramedic but my circumstances have changed somewhat (young family on the way) like many candidates and I'm now wondering if I'm mad changing from a tough but flexible well paid job to a service that seems to have a lot of issues, can't roster staff and doesn't pay that well considering the responsibilities involved.

I know it has been pointed out to you already, but did you actually research the role before applying?

There was much discussion on here and throughout the country during all the recent recruitment campaigns where advice was given about researching the role, visiting stations and speaking with Paramedics, both new and longer serving, these 'chats' gave you the full story on pay and how you climb the scale, shift allowances etc, which are not part of your basic, they add to your basic. How rostering works along with the day to day goings on in the working life of National Ambulance Service Paramedics

You say that the NAS can't roster staff? May I ask where you got that from?
All non rostered staff will get rostered, including new recruits as they will join the ranks of the non rostered panel. Rostering of staff occurs as vacancies arise in stations through retirement, promotion or emigration as we've seen in recent years.

I have no problem answering any questions you may have, although my service extends a little longer than the current recruitment drives, I'm sure there are many Paramedics who have been serving since the 2008 recruitment and on who would happily chat to you. I will also point out that many of those who have been in the service since 2008 and on are now rostered and practicing at Advanced Paramedic level.

Bradford82

Bang Bang wrote: »

I know it has been pointed out to you already, but did you actually research the role before applying?

There was much discussion on here and throughout the country during all the recent recruitment campaigns where advice was given about researching the role, visiting stations and speaking with Paramedics, both new and longer serving, these 'chats' gave you the full story on pay and how you climb the scale, shift allowances etc, which are not part of your basic, they add to your basic. How rostering works along with the day to day goings on in the working life of National Ambulance Service Paramedics

You say that the NAS can't roster staff? May I ask where you got that from?
All non rostered staff will get rostered, including new recruits as they will join the ranks of the non rostered panel. Rostering of staff occurs as vacancies arise in stations through retirement, promotion or emigration as we've seen in recent years.

I have no problem answering any questions you may have, although my service extends a little longer than the current recruitment drives, I'm sure there are many Paramedics who have been serving since the 2008 recruitment and on who would happily chat to you. I will also point out that many of those who have been in the service since 2008 and on are now rostered and practicing at Advanced Paramedic level.

Yes I researched the role to a point. However I didn't ask anyone whether after applying, going through the interview, aptitude tests, getting on a panel, sitting on a panel for two years, doing 2 years of training and then getting a permanent post if then I'm rostered or not. Apologies for my short sightedness! I did visit a ambulance service in Dublin and the crew there were great showed me around and gave me advice as to what they may be looking for in the interview and we spoke about what the lads training come out with at the end of the month. Getting through the tests and interviews were my main priority at the time and I also spoke with someone at the NAS about being placed and possible large commutes around the large area. I didn't trawl through boards.ie extensively as a lot of the opinions I did read on here contradicted each other and I had no idea who was a paramedic or not.

The reason I'm now looking for further info is because my wife (who is a nurse) spoke with a trainee advanced paramedic and another paramedic in work who advised that the working conditions are quite poor especially if you have a young family due to not being rostered and that you can be told to work our of several different ambulance stations in one week. I've also taken note of the negative press in the media about the service over the last while.

When I applied I was unmarried, had recently moved to Ireland, had no kids and had no interest in looking for a mortgage. Due to the length of time it took for recruitment to start and getting on the panel all of these things have changed. I don't think I'd get very far with getting a mortgage based on the starting pay and I don't really fancy finding out on a Saturday what I'm working for the week when I have a baby to sort child care out for.

Hence why I was asking for opinions from those who have recently become a paramedic so I can make an informed decision whether to take up a student position or cut my losses now. I assumed that paramedics are looked after a little better seeing as it's such a skilled and highly responsible role when I was applying.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I might get onto the paramedics my wife spoke to in work.

I didn't say paramedics don't get rostered for 10 years. Another poster said that.

Bang Bang

Bradford82 wrote: »

Yes I researched the role to a point. However I didn't ask anyone whether after applying, going through the interview, aptitude tests, getting on a panel, sitting on a panel for two years, doing 2 years of training and then getting a permanent post if then I'm rostered or not. Apologies for my short sightedness! I did visit a ambulance service in Dublin and the crew there were great showed me around and gave me advice as to what they may be looking for in the interview and we spoke about what the lads training come out with at the end of the month. Getting through the tests and interviews were my main priority at the time and I also spoke with someone at the NAS about being placed and possible large commutes around the large area. I didn't trawl through boards.ie extensively as a lot of the opinions I did read on here contradicted each other and I had no idea who was a paramedic or not.

The reason I'm now looking for further info is because my wife (who is a nurse) spoke with a trainee advanced paramedic and another paramedic in work who advised that the working conditions are quite poor especially if you have a young family due to not being rostered and that you can be told to work our of several different ambulance stations in one week. I've also taken note of the negative press in the media about the service over the last while.

When I applied I was unmarried, had recently moved to Ireland, had no kids and had no interest in looking for a mortgage. Due to the length of time it took for recruitment to start and getting on the panel all of these things have changed. I don't think I'd get very far with getting a mortgage based on the starting pay and I don't really fancy finding out on a Saturday what I'm working for the week when I have a baby to sort child care out for.

Hence why I was asking for opinions from those who have recently become a paramedic so I can make an informed decision whether to take up a student position or cut my losses now. I assumed that paramedics are looked after a little better seeing as it's such a skilled and highly responsible role when I was applying.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I might get onto the paramedics my wife spoke to in work.

I didn't say paramedics don't get rostered for 10 years. Another poster said that.

My apologies for the last line, I miss quoted after making a correction on spelling. Perhaps bono_v could answer that question.

Generally non rostered get their working week on a Thursday or Friday, the times when they worked on a day to day basis is widely gone, it was only in during the early parts of the cuts when overtime was not offered out to cover shifts. It was felt by many that the day to day rostering was unfair, hence changes were made.

After a while, maybe months or after your first year you may fit into a station, or hub of stations within a region and you will backfill rosters in those stations. Often when rostered staff are on long term leave or secondments their roster will be filled equally and fairly by non rostered staff, that is if an eight week line needs filling then you may get one stretch and another non rostered member may get the next stretch and so on.

In some regions non rostered staff were rostered after 4 or five years, a little longer in others, but you do gain a certain amount of stability prior to that as I have described.

Like any job there are those who enjoy what they do and those who just moan about everything. Try get chatting to someone positive and get a feel for what is ahead should you take up the offer of recruitment.

Your salary will rise along the points scale and you will earn a shift allowance when working the roster. Two years after qualifying you will be eligible to enter the competition for recruitment onto the Advanced Paramedic panel, after successful completion this will bring further increases in your earnings.

The relative unreliability of being non rostered has bothered everyone who gave up one job to enter the life of a Paramedic, but it is not as bad as some make out, and when you do get rostered you can then see for years ahead exactly when you will be working.

If you have any difficulty in getting chatting to a crew then feel free to PM and I will try sort something for you.

The best of luck.

Bradford82

Bang Bang wrote: »

My apologies for the last line, I miss quoted after making a correction on spelling. Perhaps bono_v could answer that question.

Generally non rostered get their working week on a Thursday or Friday, the times when they worked on a day to day basis is widely gone, it was only in during the early parts of the cuts when overtime was not offered out to cover shifts. It was felt by many that the day to day rostering was unfair, hence changes were made.

After a while, maybe months or after your first year you may fit into a station, or hub of stations within a region and you will backfill rosters in those stations. Often when rostered staff are on long term leave or secondments their roster will be filled equally and fairly by non rostered staff, that is if an eight week line needs filling then you may get one stretch and another non rostered member may get the next stretch and so on.

In some regions non rostered staff were rostered after 4 or five years, a little longer in others, but you do gain a certain amount of stability prior to that as I have described.

Like any job there are those who enjoy what they do and those who just moan about everything. Try get chatting to someone positive and get a feel for what is ahead should you take up the offer of recruitment.

Your salary will rise along the points scale and you will earn a shift allowance when working the roster. Two years after qualifying you will be eligible to enter the competition for recruitment onto the Advanced Paramedic panel, after successful completion this will bring further increases in your earnings.

The relative unreliability of being non rostered has bothered everyone who gave up one job to enter the life of a Paramedic, but it is not as bad as some make out, and when you do get rostered you can then see for years ahead exactly when you will be working.

If you have any difficulty in getting chatting to a crew then feel free to PM and I will try sort something for you.

The best of luck.

Thanks for that, definitely going to try and speak to a few different paramedics and try and get more of a feel for what's ahead if I do take it up. I appreciate all the detailed information about the rostering as that would be my main concern. Cheers.

palmtrees

Slightly related to this topic so said I'd post:

irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/paramedic-speaks-out-living-just-5148060

Paramedic speaks out: ‘Living is just becoming too expensive but if you want to work more you get punished