Are the Israelis essentially giving the explicit two fingers to peace talks now?

hatrickpatrick

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10239453/Israel-approves-new-settler-homes-in-east-Jerusalem-on-eve-of-peace-talks.html

Israeli officials have approved more than 900 new houses in an East Jerusalem settlement, literally the day before new peace talks are due to begin.

Now I know a lot of people claim that the Palestinians use settlements as an excuse to drag their feet over talks, but is this not an extremely obvious snub to the talks? It's clearly not a coincidence that this decision was taken the day before the start of talks, just as it was hardly a coincidence that E1 was cited for settlement development the same day as the UN recognized Palestinian statehood along the 1967 border.

I'm sure they'll come out and say this was a long awaited planning decision which just happened to be announced today, but does anyone else feel it's starting to become incredibly obvious that hardliners in Netanyahu's government are hellbent on throwing a spanner into the works literally every single time there's a glimmer of hope for some kind of deal between the two sides? It seems to me that the number of coincidental inflammatory provocations beautifully timed to coincide with what's supposed to be another round of talks is starting to mount, I can think of at least three other recent such incidents.

Is it about time the EU (obviously the US won't do anything as their hands are tied by AIPAC) stepped in and told them to cut the bullsh!t?

If they don't want peace talks then fair enough - but it strikes me that this is a very cynical ploy to deliberately derail the talks and then claim that the Palestinians are stubbornly refusing to engage with them.


Article quoted below for those on phones, in a hurry, on slow connections, or simply too lazy to bother clicking the link to it

The plan for 942 houses in the settlement of Gilo was confirmed hours before the scheduled release of 26 Palestinian prisoners as an agreed prelude to getting Wednesday's long-awaited negotiating session underway.
Palestinians immediately condemned the move as likely to jeopardise the talks, with one official saying discussions were taking place "at the highest level" over whether to attend Wednesday's planned negotiating session in Jerusalem.
"I would not be suprised if something happens to make the negotiations not take place," the Palestinian official said. "This is not negotiation. It's an exercise in humiiiation. It's clear Israel has no interest in ending the occupation."
Hagit Ofran, settlement-watch director of Peace Now, an Israeli campaign group, said: "Benjamiin Netanyahu [Israel's prime minister] might say that this is because he is releasing prisoners and he needs to show the Right-wing he is okay, but really it's a slap in the face for the Palestinians. It's virtually telling them, I don't want to talk to you."
It was Israel's second major expansion announcement in two days of settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, territories envisioned by the Palestinians as part of a future state.

On Sunday, Uriel Ariel, the ardently pro-settlement housing minister, said tenders would be issued for nearly 1,200 houses in seven different settlements - including another 400 in Gilo.
That move drew condemnation from the Foreign Office, which said it could hinder the chances of peace. "We are concerned by the decision taken by Israeli authorities on Sunday to advance plans for almost 1200 settlement units in the West Bank and east Jerusalem," a Foreign Office spokesman said. "The UK urges both sides to avoid steps that undermine these efforts and to take measures to build trust.
The latest announcement came as John Kerry, the US secretary of state - who has persuaded both sides to resume long-stalled talks - also voiced concern over recent settlement developments, saying they exceeded private understandings reached with Israel.
"The announcements with respect to settlements were to some degree expected because we have known that there was going to be a continuation of some building in certain places, and I think the Palestinians understand that," he told journalists in Bogota, the Colombian capital. "[But] I think one of the announcements was outside of that expectation and that's being discussed right now."
Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, had initially resisted pressure to resume negotiations unless Israel agreed to freeze settlement building.
However, Israeli officials insist an understanding has been reached allowing continued building in large settlement blocs for the nine-month duration of the reconvened talks in exchange for releasing 104 long-term Palestinian prisoners, one of Mr Abbas's other key demands.
Some 26 inmates are due to be freed late on Tuesday or early on Wednesday in the first phase of four planned mass releases. The event has been scheduled for during the night in an apparent to effort to deny the Palestinians a publicity coup from mass media coverage of freed prisoners being welcomed by jubilant relatives.
Israel says most of these being released are murderers who carried out "terrorist" offences. Some 15 of the 26 are from the Gaza Strip, with the remainder from the West Bank.
The first round of substantive peace talks are due to begin in Jerusalem on Wednesday, led by Tzipi Livni and Saeb Erekat, chief negotiators respectively for Israel and the Palestinians. It is expected to be followed by a further session on Thursday in the West Bank town of Jericho.
Mrs Livni and Mr Erekat held a preliminary meeting on July 30 on Washington to agree the terms for renewed talks, which had previously been suspended for three years.

wes

The timing is hugely suspect and this has as pointed above not the first time this has happened. I doubt the Israeli government is serious about peace talks, and any government led by Netanyahu will never be serious about peace imho.

Settlement expansion makes a joke of peace talks, as Israel is actively grabbing as much land as they can, while apparently negotiating how to divide it. I don't see how any peace negotiation can be successful, as long as settlement expansion continues, as they are unilaterally deciding how things should be split, by creating "facts on the ground".

So the peace talks seem to be dead before they have even started imho, and at this point the peace process is a farce.

Jonny7

Yah timing is suspect I agree, Kerry seems to be working overtime to try and smooth it (saying it was planned long in advance)

The prisoner release happening today might soften the blow a bit

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Loos like Benjamin Netanyhu-idad is purposly trying to force the Palistinians into a withdrawal. If this tactic doesn't work then I suppose the next will be airstrikes against Hamas.

biko

Releasing prisoners with one hand and approving new houses with the other does sound like mixed messages.

Seaneh

They (Israel) have no interest in a peace agreement or meaningful dialogue. They are playing the long game here, building more and more settlements and forcing Palestinians into smaller and smaller areas with the hope of eventually driving them all out of east Jerusalem and the west bank and into Gaza, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan and annexing the west bank completely.

It's basically the Zionist version of "To hell or to Connacht".

The settlements and walls and siege of gaza are all designed to goad the palestinians into starting a 3rd intifada and attacks on Israel so that they (Israel) can justify their bombing of gaza and encroachment in the west bank.

Karl Stein

Mixed messages? The message is very clear. Israel doesn't give a shit and will not stop its colonisation of the WB.

Son Of A Vidic

It's not the first time an Israeli government has pulled this provocative stunt. After all, they are masters at speaking out of both sides of their mouth.

montreal2011

I agree with Seaneh; Israel are delaying as long as possible, taking more and more land. The longer the road to peace, the happier Israel will be as the more land they will have grabbed.

It's extremely sad that Isreal are forcing Palestinians to live in ghettos similar to what the Nazis forced the Jews to live in during WW2.

Jonny7

Pretty much agree here, doesn't seem to be any genuine desire among current Israeli admin, just going through the motions

Will be astonished if it hasn't been broken in weeks/months

Seaneh

Shlomo Ben-Ami tells a story about how during talks in 2000 when he was acting Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Internal Security that pretty much everything was agreed, the Israeli and Palestinian delegations had agreed to land swaps to make the boarders more straight forward, Palestinian representatives had agreed to recognise Israel as a state and Israel had agreed to the foundation of a Palestinian state, withdrawal from the west bank, the whole works, an independent Palestinian state in the west bank and gaza. He spoke with Ehud Barak on he phone to tell him the deal and get approval to sign the next day, Barak gave him the go ahead and everyone went to bed happy, Jimmy Carter was acting as mediator in the talks and he tells a smiliar story of going back to his cabin and telling his wife "we finally did it, they have an agreement, this is happening".

The next morning Ben-Ami is woken by a phone call from Barak, he tells him not to sign anything, that after a security meeting with ministers and generals from the IDF in Tel Aviv to inform them of the deal, several military leaders basically told Barak that if the deal was signed, he'd be removed from office.

There is this perception that Israel is a "functioning democracy" but if Ben-Ami and Barak's stories are true, then obviously the military are there, standing over the shoulders of whoever is in government telling them "dont you even think of doing that" any time a peace agreement is in place.

It's totally messed up.

Karl Stein

Seaneh wrote: »

There is this perception that Israel is a "functioning democracy" but if Ben-Ami and Barak's stories are true, then obviously the military are there, standing over the shoulders of whoever is in government telling them "dont you even think of doing that" any time a peace agreement is in place.

You can be pretty sure there were plenty of phone calls between the Israeli security people, pro-Zionist big-wigs in New York/Washington, and the Pentagon, making sure a peace settlement would be scuppered.

Also, in fairness to Israel, most democracies have people in the background subverting them and this would be especially so in countries with powerful 'special interests' (special interests that are rarely in sync with the wider population's interests).

NoNewFriends

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Mixed messages? The message is very clear. Israel doesn't give a shit and will not stop its colonisation of the WB.

People said the same thing about Gaza in 2005. I hope you realise that Israel has also vacated settlements settlements in the WB before.

Now gents, you may resume with your (ill-informed) echo chamber. Sorry for interrupting with facts.

Nodin

NoNewFriends wrote: »

People said the same thing about Gaza in 2005.........

Yes, and when they closed the settlements in Gaza it was to concentrate on the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. Hardly reassuring.

wes

NoNewFriends wrote: »

People said the same thing about Gaza in 2005. I hope you realise that Israel has also vacated settlements settlements in the WB before.

Which was done, when Netanyahu wasn't in charge.

Also, you leave out the part where they expanded settlements in the West Bank, and the subsequent treatment of the population of Gaza.

NoNewFriends wrote: »

Now gents, you may resume with your (ill-informed) echo chamber. Sorry for interrupting with facts.

What facts? What relevance does the actions of a different Israeli leader, and a different government have to to do with now exactly (ignoring you own omission of facts btw)? Netanyahu has always been hostile to any kind of peace deal, and has been pretty open about that. Ignoring the fact that Netanyahu is probably more hostile to peace than any other Israeli leader in recent memory is simply bizarre.

alastair

wes wrote: »

What relevance does the actions of a different Israeli leader, and a different government have to to do with now exactly (ignoring you own omission of facts btw)?

Well, in fairness - you weren't shy about referencing previous Israeli actions either:

The timing is hugely suspect and this has as pointed above not the first time this has happened.

Releasing prisoners and expanding settlements can't be considered anything other than a mixed message - even if you take most sceptical/cynical/pessimistic view of Israel's intentions.

There's only one genuinely keen player in the current peace talks - the Palestinian Authority - everyone else (including Hamas, outside the tent) is rather less committed. It's not the greatest basis for a successful deal.

wes

alastair wrote: »

Well, in fairness - you weren't shy about referencing previous Israeli actions either:

What I referenced happened under the Netanyahu government, so its different than referring to something a previous administration has done.

alastair

wes wrote: »

What I referenced happened under the Netanyahu government, so its different than referring to something a previous administration has done.

A different Netanyahu government, mind.

wes

alastair wrote: »

A different Netanyahu government, mind.

Still the same man at the top.

alastair

wes wrote: »

Still the same man at the top.

Still a previous administration.

Karl Stein

NoNewFriends wrote: »

People said the same thing about Gaza in 2005.

Anyone who believes the Israelis are going to remove colonisers from the WB and leave it to the Palestinians in any way similar to Gaza needs their head examined.

I hope you realise that Israel has also vacated settlements settlements in the WB before.

It removed a few hundred colonists from troublesome colonies.

Now gents, you may resume with your (ill-informed) echo chamber.

I refer you to the charter. If someone is ill informed you pull the quote and counter it. You've done nothing of the sort.

Sorry for interrupting with facts.

Irrelevant facts.

hatrickpatrick

alastair wrote: »

Well, in fairness - you weren't shy about referencing previous Israeli actions either:

Just want to point out that I was the one who first mentioned that this has happened before, and in my case I was talking about Israel announcing E1 development (ringfencing East Jerusalem with settlements) on the same day as the UN vote to grant Palestine statehood on its original border. That was entirely Netanyahu's government's doing, and they didn't even pretend the timing wasn't deliberate.