what would you do?

dirtyghettokid

so i was down at the VAGE show in fermoy the other day. took about 200 pics, lashed em up on my flickr. they got shared by the VAGE.ie facebook & twitter. my views exploded. had over 40,000 hits yesterday, where normal would be a few hundred a day.

get a message from a guy this morning looking for a full res digital file of his car (form the show). i wrote back saying there would be a small fee & i would provide on disc.

he came back saying he would not be paying for a picture of his own car & it was only for forum use.

i didn't reply, but he since sent another mail saying he made screen shots of my work for forums & "it will do" !

:mad:

EDIT: he's just left comments on a facebook page complaining that i asked for a fee!

DaireQuinlan

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

so i was down at the VAGE show in fermoy the other day. took about 200 pics, lashed em up on my flickr. they got shared by the VAGE.ie facebook & twitter. my views exploded. had over 40,000 hits yesterday, where normal would be a few hundred a day.

get a message from a guy this morning looking for a full res digital file of his car (form the show). i wrote back saying there would be a small fee & i would provide on disc.

he came back saying he would not be paying for a picture of his own car & it was only for forum use.

i didn't reply, but he since sent another mail saying he made screen shots of my work for forums & "it will do" !

:mad:

EDIT: he's just left comments on a facebook page complaining that i asked for a fee!

Ask him to borrow his car. For free.
Seriously, I would wage a persistent but polite war against him wherever he posts the shots or negative opinions. Counteract his posts with info, and get the shots taken down where you can. Can't really do more than educate, but wave that stick around where necessary.

dirtyghettokid

yes, i will need to do that. screenshots won't have exif data, so will have to try and find out where he's posting these, but it shouldn't be too hard. i've blocked him from flickr anyway (i should have known it was going to be trouble... the word POO is in his username!) :rolleyes:

EDIT: my photo is on his photobucket...well the screenshot. does a screenshot of my image violate copyright?

DaireQuinlan

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

yes, i will need to do that. screenshots won't have exif data, so will have to try and find out where he's posting these, but it shouldn't be too hard. i've blocked him from flickr anyway (i should have known it was going to be trouble... the word POO is in his username!) :rolleyes:

EDIT: my photo is on his photobucket...well the screenshot. does a screenshot of my image violate copyright?

I would imagine so, yes. Blocking him from flickr doesn't affect his ability to see any publicly available photos that you have.

dirtyghettokid

ok, so he put my pic (screenshot) on photobucket. i sent in a complaint to photobucket & they removed it.
now i get a message from him saying

hi i was show and shine winner in my category. because of this people are looking for pictures of the car for forums and facebook if you gave me hard copy in file format with your logo on you would be getting promoted around the car forum seen and facebook. your missing out on an opportunity to promote your photography. can i remind you also all owners cars on display give photographers permission to take pictures of there vehicles. Not permission for them to try sell the picture back of there cars. event organizers will tell you also its not an opertunity for photographers to make money form display cars or owners. since they are giving people the opertunity to photograph there cars and promoter there business online.

is he just trying to guilt trip me.. or am i wrong by taking photos at an event? thoughts?
i haven't replied to any correspondence.

to be clear, he asked for a digital copy of my picture. if you want to share a copy of whats on flickr, there's no harm in that, but he wanted me to send him a digital copy, in which he could do what he likes. that's why i asked for a fee. i'm not gonna just give away digital copies of my pics!

pete4130

He's talking crap. Like he's doing you a favour by using your photo for free?

An opportunity to promote your photography for other car enthusiasts to see your work and hopefully use your images for free in the future...forget it. It's a niche market too so if one person gets it for free, then everyone expects it for free. He is telling YOU that you are missing out on an opportunity? Yo need to tell him that you have images of his car and he is the one missing out on an opportunity for good images. You have plenty of other images that are as good or better that you are happy with and have no issues deleting images of his car (bluff of course).

As for being granted permission to take photos of cars at a show and sell them back to the owner he's talking out of his áss. He wanted the photo from you. You didn't do the hard sell to him.

Just tell him that in future you won't photograph any of his cars at all due to his behaviour, that other photographers are aware of his actions/attitude to demand images, screen shot-ing the images to use and breach of copyright.

Dont be guilt tripped by this idiot. I'm genuinely angry at his attitude.

If it's a small time show thing and he wants it for forum/facebook then its a time sensitive thing. In 2 weeks it'll be forgotten about, so even a token, €20, for a low res, watermarked copy of your image would resolve things.

dirtyghettokid

thanks for the reply pete!

i wouldn't be too knowledgable with "laws" as they vary from place to place and seem to change with the wind.

i actually don't take car images to make money. i took them for a blog post, really! and the fee i asked for was €30 for a full res digital copy.

i paid to get into the show, and i walked around taking pics. he could have just used the "share" option on the menu on flickr and pasted the link. with no fees..

here's me doing it right now, with the very picture


VAGE 11 by jbredrebel, on Flickr

but he asked for a digital copy. jaysis on a bike.
some amount of effort he wasted, by sending me that essay of a text.

bullpost

You could reward his effort by correcting his numerous spelling/grammar errors and send it back to him

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

some amount of effort he wasted, by sending me that essay of a text.

pete4130

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

thanks for the reply pete!

i wouldn't be too knowledgable with "laws" as they vary from place to place and seem to change with the wind.

i actually don't take car images to make money. i took them for a blog post, really! and the fee i asked for was €30 for a full res digital copy.

i paid to get into the show, and i walked around taking pics. he could have just used the "share" option on the menu on flickr and pasted the link. with no fees..

here's me doing it right now, with the very picture


VAGE 11 by jbredrebel, on Flickr

but he asked for a digital copy. jaysis on a bike.
some amount of effort he wasted, by sending me that essay of a text.

Exactly. He went about it the whole wrong way. You paid in to see these cars, took photos of them to enjoy them for yourself. They then get pinched after the guy won't fork out €30 on a car he's probably pumped a hell of a lot of money into, just to get it promoted a bit more. He then resorts to stealing the image.

His message is totally making you out to be the bad guy who is out to rip people off for pics of their own cars. He's angry that he hasn't got images of his car to show people. He could have used the share function but I doubt he knows how to.

He actually asked you for a hard copy file which makes no sense? It's someone who doesn't really understand images, photography or any etiquette, law or respect towards photography. It's just a push of a button on a digital camera to him.

I'd set all those images to private on my flickr/pixie accounts for the next 3-4 months until the image isn't valuable to him anymore. All the time keeping an eye out for where it might pop up.

dirtyghettokid

pete4130 wrote: »

Exactly. He went about it the whole wrong way. You paid in to see these cars, took photos of them to enjoy them for yourself. They then get pinched after the guy won't fork out €30 on a car he's probably pumped a hell of a lot of money into, just to get it promoted a bit more. He then resorts to stealing the image.

His message is totally making you out to be the bad guy who is out to rip people off for pics of their own cars. He's angry that he hasn't got images of his car to show people. He could have used the share function but I doubt he knows how to.

He actually asked you for a hard copy file which makes no sense? It's someone who doesn't really understand images, photography or any etiquette, law or respect towards photography. It's just a push of a button on a digital camera to him.

I'd set all those images to private on my flickr/pixie accounts for the next 3-4 months until the image isn't valuable to him anymore. All the time keeping an eye out for where it might pop up.

i might just do that. there were other photographers there, that day. quite a few actually, for various irish automotive blogs. i know a few of the other photographers that were there on the day, and they haven't been pestered by this guy. he could easily go and ask another photographer for a pic of his car. there had to be about 25 of them floating about!! why me?

i did a google on him, and saw he owns his own business. i'd be very tempted to ring him up and ask for him to do business for me, for free. because it'd be good exposure for his business. LOL

it just goes to show, so many people out there don't understand photography, or to be a photographer. if just anybody can get a camera and press a button, why didn't he flippin' take a pic of his car to use on forums?!? gaaaaaahh!

bullpost wrote: »

You could reward his effort by correcting his numerous spelling/grammar errors and send it back to him

believe me, it was very difficult for me to read that message! cringe! the inner me wants to reply "go the f*ck back to school!" but that wouldn't be very professional of me :P

ado100

It never ceases to amaze me the different attitudes people have to event photography. I've photographed a number of mountain bike events this year, the most recent was just last Sunday. Having shot over 1,500 frames, I posted 300 low-res watermarked images on Facebook (as I do after each event). I'm still learning my trade but if I may say so myself, some of the shots were really good - this one in particular I was very pleased with...



What is extraordinary is the number of people who shared my photos or used them as their profile picture without so much as a 'Like' (the one above included)! Also, out of over 300 competitors I probably missed half a dozen, yet got two messages of 'why didn't you take a picture of me?' - I just don't understand that attitude, is it not common courtesy to say 'please' and 'thank you'?

I don't do this for the money, I do it because I like taking photos - fortunately, three people want high-res images and are prepared to pay for them, so it's not all bad. But going back to the OP, what on earth makes people think they are entitled to your photos for free - I just don't get it.

dirtyghettokid

well i get that there's a lot of people out there that don't want to pay for photos...
my main concern is that he was throwing his toys out of the pram all over the internet, and i wasn't quite sure how to deal with it. i actually started questioning myself, had i done something wrong...

always one bad apple out there to upset the whole cart.

Kenny Logins

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

well i get that there's a lot of people out there that don't want to pay for photos...
my main concern is that he was throwing his toys out of the pram all over the internet, and i wasn't quite sure how to deal with it. i actually started questioning myself, had i done something wrong...

always one bad apple out there to upset the whole cart.

Nah, not your fault at all. All he had to do was share or embed the photo from where it is - your Flickr stream.

Balfey1972

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

well i get that there's a lot of people out there that don't want to pay for photos...
my main concern is that he was throwing his toys out of the pram all over the internet, and i wasn't quite sure how to deal with it. i actually started questioning myself, had i done something wrong...

always one bad apple out there to upset the whole cart.

Fair play DGK. Do not back down, like above comment I'd make his photos private on your flickr page.

If it was that easy to make his car look good why does he not take photos of it himself? As Daire said ask him to borrow his car for free, as you did pay in to the show and surely you are entitled to go for a spin in it as it is there !!

In all seriousness, most people do think that photos should be available for free, amazing the amount of photos I have come across plenty of mine screen grabbed and having been cropped to ****, water marks cropped etc., even have had people taking photos of screen images.

Stick to your guns, if they truly value it, they will pay for it.

Bottom line is you took a photo in a public place having paid in. No model release issues as there are no people in it. Anyway you are not selling them commercially just looking to be reimbursed for sending on the image to him for your time and efforts in preparing the image.

ps. tell him that your hubbie is in the road traffic core and that you will get his reg number flagged on the national fleet database

Splinters

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

my main concern is that he was throwing his toys out of the pram all over the internet, and i wasn't quite sure how to deal with it. i actually started questioning myself, had i done something wrong...

You're absolutely in the right.

If his logic is why should he pay for a picture of his car then let him get his camera phone and take a picture of his car. Easy, job done.

What he wants is a picture by a skilled photographer who has invested large amounts of time and money into their craft and equipment to take a photo for him. Its a no brainer really, of course he should have to pay you. Even a small gesture fee is fine but its that gesture that helps remind people the images a good photographer takes have some worth.

dirtyghettokid

true, but this is something the "herp derps" of the world will never get into their head