Can a high milk price ever be bad?

delaval

Chatting to a few in the pub last night. Some were going to feed more meal with the certain knowledge that they will have to put the brakes on with superlevy their reasoning was high milk price

Another is doing a building and buying a tractor again high milk price. He has adequete buildings and woud be compliant

I will only commit capital if necessary (co co on my case) and will always do it in a bad milk price year.
In a good price period I try to salt away as much as I can.

Am I only a fool or should I blow it as the others are doing? By having a reserve I got through 09 with no illeffects. I actually think that the legacy of 09 is still being felt on some dairy farms today with last year compounding matters.

bob charles

spend on a bad year - be that capital, machinery etc as you will look at the expenditure ever which way to see if it makes sense and on a good year, never spend on capital or machinery - save it.

darragh_haven

I would consider spending on a good year, it'd save the government taking over half the profit. I'd spend on something that would either yhe working day easier or shorter. If I spend on a bad year year ill only save on the low tax rate.
That may not apply to you Delaval if if you pay 12.5% whether it be a good or bad year. Then your rational may stack up.

delaval

darragh_haven wrote: »

I would consider spending on a good year, it'd save the government taking over half the profit. I'd spend on something that would either yhe working day easier or shorter. If I spend on a bad year year ill only save on the low tax rate.
That may not apply to you Delaval if if you pay 12.5% whether it be a good or bad year. Then your rational may stack up.

I'm not incorporated. I take your point but my only worry is that inessential things get purchased that really aren't needed when price is high.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

spend on a bad year - be that capital, machinery etc as you will look at the expenditure ever which way to see if it makes sense and on a good year, never spend on capital or machinery - save it.

Bob talking sense has the world gone mad

mf240

If any extra money available it should be targeted at firstly existing debt. Then possibly lime and p and k levels or extra resseeding.

Is there a roadway that needs resurfacing or extending do you need more water troughs? or is there some drainage to be done?

Nothing wrong with building if its genuinely needed or it makes life a lot easier.

whelan1

if anyone has spare money they dont know what to do with they can send it to me, i will look after it

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

If any extra money available it should be targeted at firstly existing debt.

I would be slow to go off paying debt on the back of a good year. Credit is hard enough to be gotten without handing it back easily. Money at 5% - 6% is cheaper having than not having IMV

mf240 wrote: »

Then possibly lime and p and k levels or extra resseeding.

Is there a roadway that needs resurfacing or extending do you need more water troughs? or is there some drainage to be done?

What you mention above is ongoing expenditure that has to be done good or bad years. Your costs should include maintaining fertility levels

kevthegaff

Sometimes it cant be good, lads investing hugely on a largely fluctuating price, only 2-3 yrs ago the price was down to 20 cpl, if this happened capped with a superlevy id say some lads could be going back to the banks with cap in hands. I prefer if the price is steady at 28cpl and no superlevy fears, but i hope it stays high post 2015 when i expand and i can reap the benefits of it. The most important thing is lads have theyre balance sheets prepared for the worst case scenarios.

delaval

mf240 wrote: »

If any extra money available it should be targeted at firstly existing debt. Then possibly p anlime andd k levels or extra resseeding.

Is there a roadway that needs resurfacing or extending do you need more water troughs? or is there some drainage to be done?

Nothing wrong with building if its genuinely needed or it makes life a lot easier.

The debt repayments should be left as they are. If you are meeting them and the bank are happy what's the rush. Finance is hard got and not as cheap as you have it so why hurry?

Everything else are givens and are not in any way optional, good farming practice

bob charles

I find we make the best use of spending money when we dont have it and spend ages mulling over if what your spending it on is being done properly and as cheap as possible. I was watching a job being done by a guy with loads of money recently, new parlour and drafting etc, Walls that were poured 2 weeks previous were being cut back down. Constantly changing his mind and when he had 1/4 of a mill spent he ran out of cash. So everything is ready but the actual 24 unit parlour is missing for going on two years now. Drafting system cost 20k all that could have being done manually with a rope system

keep going

there are very few investments either inside or outside the gate that would pay better than giving the land 2 bags of 18-6-12 on the QT if you reckon you could have spare cash at this time of year.

pakalasa

keep going wrote: »

...than giving the land 2 bags of 18-6-12 on the QT ...

On the QT - Why, Nitrates directive?

bob charles

keep going wrote: »

there are very few investments either inside or outside the gate that would pay better than giving the land 2 bags of 18-6-12 on the QT if you reckon you could have spare cash at this time of year.

fertiliser isnt a one off investment - its on going. No wonder some people that grow this cheap grass can quote such low figures. you have to keep applying enough P and K to match offtake and cost this in every year. applying fertiliser as an investment is a crazy idea. Apply fertiliser for the offtake each year, no more, no less.

kevthegaff

bob charles wrote: »

fertiliser isnt a one off investment - its on going. No wonder some people that grow this cheap grass can quote such low figures. you have to keep applying enough P and K to match offtake and cost this in every year. applying fertiliser as an investment is a crazy idea. Apply fertiliser for the offtake each year, no more, no less.

i was at the greenfield last year and they said a bag of 0-10-20 is required to sustain the soils p and k levels not taking any silage. Is that correct?

bob charles

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was at the greenfield last year and they said a bag of 0-10-20 is required to sustain the soils p and k levels not taking any silage. Is that correct?

you would want a good bit more than that if grazing intensively and not returning slurry or feeding meals in the parlour. Easiest way to work it out is get your tons of DM per ac/ha and then use this figure of grass produced from the land so you know your off take. You could also get your total ltrs produced and get the figure of how much P and K is leaving the farm for every 1000 ltrs etc

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was at the greenfield last year and they said a bag of 0-10-20 is required to sustain the soils p and k levels not taking any silage. Is that correct?

I bag of 10 10 20 no where near good enough that Kev if grazing intensively and making silage and baling surpluses throughout the year.most of my ground is index 3 now,have some index 4 and a couple at 2 and none at 1.my manure plan re p and k for the year would be about 3 to 4 k of slurry throughout the spring on all grazing ground.all ground also gets between 1.5 to 2.5 bags of 18 6 12 in spring also.aroubd June all ground gets 27 2.5 5 at bag to the acre.and then in August a bag and a half of 27 2.5 5..don't believe all that comes out of greenfield.theyvstill have lots to learn there re paddocks and there fertiliser requirements.that farm is carrying way too many stock compared to what they can grow at the moment.run the cows low cost if u want but don't try and bleed your farm dry of nutrients and not put enough back.

jersey101

kevthegaff wrote: »

i was at the greenfield last year and they said a bag of 0-10-20 is required to sustain the soils p and k levels not taking any silage. Is that correct?

maybe for them there where there p and k is all top of index 3 and 4

mahoney_j

jersey101 wrote: »

maybe for them there where there p and k is all top of index 3 and 4

It isn't and organic matter is low ish as well due to land been in all tillage previously.all thre slurry is only lagoon as well so only small amounts of p and k in it

jersey101

mahoney_j wrote: »

It isn't and organic matter is low ish as well due to land been in all tillage previously.all thre slurry is only lagoon as well so only small amounts of p and k in it

i was there in may and june this year and they gave out handouts showing soil tests in each paddock and they were all index 3 and 4. Your right organic matter is there biggest problem there.

kevthegaff

i only spread 27 2.5 5 on all the grazing ground here, 3 18-6-12 on reseeds, and slurry(heavy) and can on land i can travel. Also spread 250 t of lime last 3 years. That should increase p and k as im stocked only 1.6/hectare. i have to do another soil sample

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

im stocked only 1.6/hectare

And I thought my 1.8 was low ha, that due to the hilly ground, or quota restrictions?

But anyways the teagasc adviser was down on the farm the other day, said the grass on one of the silage fields felt very crunchy, which is a sign of p/k deficiency, we soil tested it last yr, and put out some P&K, may go out with more! My dad didn't seem to keen ha, I may just go call up the coop and land it in the gate so, asking for forgiveness will be easier than permission in this case :P

kevthegaff

Timmaay wrote: »

And I thought my 1.8 was low ha, that due to the hilly ground, or quota restrictions?

But anyways the teagasc adviser was down on the farm the other day, said the grass on one of the silage fields felt very crunchy, which is a sign of p/k deficiency, we soil tested it last yr, and put out some P&K, may go out with more! My dad didn't seem to keen ha, I may just go call up the coop and land it in the gate so, asking for forgiveness will be easier than permission in this case :P

Bit of both Timmaay, Mainly quota restrictions. Ill push on after 2015:). I rent land for 1/2 the silage so this helps the fertility of my own land without depending too much on weather to travel it

bob charles

You dont just get a bigger crop when you spread enough P and K but you get a much better feed value from the harvested forage. Grass grown on poor unfertilized land wouldnt feed Jack sh*te even if its 75DMD

mahoney_j

jersey101 wrote: »

i was there in may and june this year and they gave out handouts showing soil tests in each paddock and they were all index 3 and 4. Your right organic matter is there biggest problem there.

Interesting was thre in June and impression I got was that not all paddocks were index 3 or 4 .thrre was a bit of a moan from speakers that nitrates was holding farm back from spreading the required p and k and thus stunting growth..

Dampintheattic

bob charles wrote: »

You dont just get a bigger crop when you spread enough P and K but you get a much better feed value from the harvested forage. Grass grown on poor unfertilized land wouldnt feed Jack sh*te even if its 75DMD

I bought 18 round bales of hay off a fella this year.
7 of the 18 came out of a small field, which got no fertilizer of any kind this year. No particular reason, other than fella didn't get around to doing it.
Other bales came from fertilized field. 10.10.20.

Both places cut on same day, and baled same day with same baler / driver, and got equal amount of tedding, in the best weather we got this year.
Bales from unfertilized field, significantly heavier than the others.

I figure I have far better feeding value for money, in the unfertilized bales:p

jersey101

mahoney_j wrote: »

Interesting was thre in June and impression I got was that not all paddocks were index 3 or 4 .thrre was a bit of a moan from speakers that nitrates was holding farm back from spreading the required p and k and thus stunting growth..

ye i looked at the sheets i had from it and most paddocks are index 3 or more. Ye i remember one saying they would spread more N but the two lads want to abid by the nitrates regulations

Going forward...

If you got it, flaunt it. The usual suspects, sheds, tractor, jeep aka the status symbols. :cool:

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

You dont just get a bigger crop when you spread enough P and K but you get a much better feed value from the harvested forage. Grass grown on poor unfertilized land wouldnt feed Jack sh*te even if its 75DMD

I heard a figure recently that 50kgs of CAN removes 50kgs of lime from an acre. If you're in derogation territory you're taking close to a half a tonne of lime out per acre per year.

mahoney_j

freedominacup wrote: »

I heard a figure recently that 50kgs of CAN removes 50kgs of lime from an acre. If you're in derogation territory you're taking close to a half a tonne of lime out per acre per year.

Yep but your growing an ass load of grass for that,well at least you should be if index are good.ground lime is cheap and should be put out every 3 years or so on intensively farmed lsnd

Mulumpy

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep but your growing an ass load of grass for that,well at least you should be if index are good.ground lime is cheap and should be put out every 3 years or so on intensively farmed lsnd

Any soil test ive done says in puking in lime ( ph 6.8). Even though no lime put out for 20 years. Would I get a response for a few ton regardless farm intensly here

freedominacup

Mulumpy wrote: »

Any soil test ive done says in puking in lime ( ph 6.8). Even though no lime put out for 20 years. Would I get a response for a few ton regardless farm intensly here

If it's in the ground then happy days. You might get a response if direct drilling.

mahoney_j

Mulumpy wrote: »

Any soil test ive done says in puking in lime ( ph 6.8). Even though no lime put out for 20 years. Would I get a response for a few ton regardless farm intensly here

If its 6.8 no need for line could be just your soil type,what's your p and k index like??also like greenfield farm if land was in continuous tillage organic matter will be low.so in with fym

keep going

well i can only speak for myself but ill say that p and k are dear and i see nothing wrong with stockpiling it in the ground for a lean year which i think will be late 14 and definately 15.as for putting out what you think a crop needs what do you base that on ,if you went by soil analysis and teagsc recomendations you wouldnt have much around here.personally i have never regreted putting on a bit extra. lime is also a good investment in a good year as it can like fert come straight off the profit in the year its put out and not depreciated over a number of years .usually to get fert without putting on the acccount it has to be paid for up front which is not always possible each year or earlier in the year on some farms

Mulumpy

mahoney_j wrote: »

If its 6.8 no need for line could be just your soil type,what's your p and k index like??also like greenfield farm if land was in continuous tillage organic matter will be low.so in with fym

Im in index four not permitted p. All ground gets slurry at least twice a year and 250kgs of bag N. Had one silage field that was suffering from being cut twice every year just grazed it last year horsed on the dung in October and got two massive crops of silage off it this year. Reseeding it in the plan for next year