Water booster pump for duplex apartment with header tank

JohnCleary

Folks,
I have a duplex apartment with an attic, where the header tank is. The immersion is on the 1st floor and works like a traditional system whereby gravity fed from the header tank above.

Last year I installed a new bathroom and since then the pressure has been very low in the bathroom (sink, toilet, shower ... the shower is a rain shower)

I suspect that the new bathroom equipment was designed for use with a water booster pump.

Now i'd be inclined to get a pro to install as i'm not great with anything plumbing, but want to at least get a bit of an education.

Should I be looking for a water booster pump with twin feed? (ie. one for cold feed from the tank to cold, one for hot from the header tank to the immersion)

And apart from the water booster pump, accumulator and pipes, is anything else specific needed?

Thanks for any info

sullzz

JohnCleary wrote: »

Folks,
I have a duplex apartment with an attic, where the header tank is. The immersion is on the 1st floor and works like a traditional system whereby gravity fed from the header tank above.

Last year I installed a new bathroom and since then the pressure has been very low in the bathroom (sink, toilet, shower ... the shower is a rain shower)

I suspect that the new bathroom equipment was designed for use with a water booster pump.

Now i'd be inclined to get a pro to install as i'm not great with anything plumbing, but want to at least get a bit of an education.

Should I be looking for a water booster pump with twin feed? (ie. one for cold feed from the tank to cold, one for hot from the header tank to the immersion)

And apart from the water booster pump, accumulator and pipes, is anything else specific needed?

Thanks for any info

You will need a power supply for the pump , possibly a larger cylinder , a Surrey flange for the cylinder , you do realise that the pump will be activated whenever the toilet is flushed , can be a nuisance in the middle of the night , also possibly whenever the kitchen hot tap is used , is there no way of just connecting the pump up to just pump the shower

homer911

I dont understand why people dont put the pump to the header tank on a timer. Override if having a bath or shower, but otherwise set the pump to turn on at the same time as your alarm clock..

JohnCleary

sullzz wrote: »

You will need a power supply for the pump , possibly a larger cylinder , a Surrey flange for the cylinder , you do realise that the pump will be activated whenever the toilet is flushed , can be a nuisance in the middle of the night , also possibly whenever the kitchen hot tap is used , is there no way of just connecting the pump up to just pump the shower

Yes, familiar with the concept as lived in an apartment with a pump before, cheers for the info

homer911 wrote: »

I dont understand why people dont put the pump to the header tank on a timer. Override if having a bath or shower, but otherwise set the pump to turn on at the same time as your alarm clock..

This is most likely what i'd do, although the pump would be in the attic so hopefully not much of a nuisance

Froststop

JohnCleary wrote: »

Yes, familiar with the concept as lived in an apartment with a pump before, cheers for the info


This is most likely what i'd do, although the pump would be in the attic so hopefully not much of a nuisance

You may need to increase the tank in the attic also, watch out for the pumps rate of flow or litres per minute. Fitting the pump in the attic is a bad idea! I would advise against it, as the pump will most likely work on flow sensor and flow rate if fitted in the attic may not be enough for the pump to switch on. Head pressure in the attic will be low and you may have problems with air locks in the pump also.
I would recommend fitting it in the hot press and pipe direct to the shower only. You can also pipe it to the sink if you want and keep the WC directly off the tank.

sky6

Could the op not use a pressurized Vessel to prevent short cycling of the pump ?.
may be positioned in the Attic.

Froststop

sky6 wrote: »

Could the op not use a pressurized Vessel to prevent short cycling of the pump ?.
may be positioned in the Attic.

No not on an open system, the vessel would be of no use as the pressure required would not operate the diaphragm in the vessel.

JohnCleary

I didn't think of the gravity fed pressure to the inlet side of the pump, didn't think it would be an issue.

Would people strongly suggest installing the pump in the hot press as opposed to the attic?

Froststop

Hi John, yes it will be a problem and the connections on the pump are on the top with flexible hoses which makes matters worse. You also have to consider the freezing factor in winter if we get a spell of 2010 back. I would advise you save your self the trouble and fit in the hot press.

sky6

Thanks for clarifying that Froststop. I hadn't thought about the Gravity problem on the open circuit. I'm curious now would the pressurized vessel work if the system was sealed. Thanks

Froststop

Hi sky6, no bother

If you seal the system, the hot water cylinder would need to be changed. It may need to be fed off a bigger tank with booster pump feeding both hot and cold to get equal pressure for the shower. So the pump would now go before the cylinder.
It would also cost a lot more to install.

The pressure vessel can be used for a few jobs, main function is only for expansion when water heats or pressure fluctuates, and helps stop the backlash on the pump when a tap is closed. It's like jumping on a trampoline compared to jumping on the ground.

It can also help by acting as a reservoir to stop the pressure dropping instantly causing the pump to cut in and out every minute like when a tap drips.

sky6

Hi Froststop,

Thanks for your explanation. Just a couple more questions if I may.
Yes in a sealed system the cylinder would need to be HP. But why would the storage need to be bigger. Is it because the Pump would drain it to quickly.
What is the reason for moving the pump to the supply side and if so wouldn't it change from a twin impeller to a single impeller Booster.
Also is a float switch used to tell the booster the Storage Tank is full.
Thanks

Froststop

sky6 wrote: »

Hi Froststop,

Thanks for your explanation. Just a couple more questions if I may.
Yes in a sealed system the cylinder would need to be HP. But why would the storage need to be bigger. Is it because the Pump would drain it to quickly.
What is the reason for moving the pump to the supply side and if so wouldn't it change from a twin impeller to a single impeller Booster.
Also is a float switch used to tell the booster the Storage Tank is full.
Thanks

No Bother sky6
You need to allow for pumping out the hot water quicker & also the storage as your also pumping the cold. Both hot and storage may need to be increased.

Moving to the supply is because it will be a single impeller and supply hot and cold fixtures.

Twins are really only for supply to one fixture e.g. a shower. This is why they are fitted after the cylinder. If not plumbed correctly they can draw from the vent and suck air, connecting to the hot needs to be as close to the hot output on the cylinder as possible.

I anticipate the OP may have wanted to put it in the attic for more than noise as he may have been thinking of teeing off the vent and cold near the tank. If he did this he would have been in trouble as he would have air locked the hot side of the pump through the vent.

Float switch is normally only standard if using in-tank booster pump but could be used with a in-line also to be safe, but if tanks are sized correctly there's no need. I think some of the better quality pumps have a trip switch in the event of having no water.

In the OP's case it is most likely not worth the hassle & expense of pressurising the system. It should be easier to just go with the twin pump after the cylinder and just supply the shower.

sky6

Thanks again Froststop


So where exactly is the single impeller Booster pump fitted before the Cylinder. Is it in the cold feed coming from the storage Tank. Then pumping the cold around the House. With a Tee feeding into the hot cylinder to pump it around the house.

Froststop

sky6 wrote: »

Thanks again Froststop


So where exactly is the single impeller Booster pump fitted before the Cylinder. Is it in the cold feed coming from the storage Tank. Then pumping the cold around the House. With a Tee feeding into the hot cylinder to pump it around the house.

Yes.
Increase cold feed size from tank to pump and then split to cylinder & cold to fixtures.
Or link both cold feeds before supplying the pump.

sullzz

sky6 wrote: »

Thanks again Froststop


So where exactly is the single impeller Booster pump fitted before the Cylinder. Is it in the cold feed coming from the storage Tank. Then pumping the cold around the House. With a Tee feeding into the hot cylinder to pump it around the house.

It's not as simple as that , you need expansion vessel fitted for cylinder , temperature and pressure relief valve fitted , piped to outside , there is a lot to know about fitting a pressurised cylinder and even more to fit it correctly and safely .

Froststop

sullzz wrote: »

It's not as simple as that , you need expansion vessel fitted for cylinder , temperature and pressure relief valve fitted , piped to outside , there is a lot to know about fitting a pressurised cylinder and even more to fit it correctly and safely .

Spot on! sullzz.

sky6
There is more to it than just fitting a pump and rerouteing a few pipes. I would advise professional help if your thinking of doing one of these jobs.