Are There Plans for a Cork-Ringaskiddy Rail Line?

man98

I have been reading on another web site that there is a railway line, exclusively for freight, planned between Cork and Ringaskiddy. This would mean trucks wouldn't have to via Rosslare and go straight to Roscoff (or on a container ship). Has anyone else heard these rumours? Is there any truth?

corktina

not heard it and we have no money anyway.... what I have heard is an extention of the footpath based on the old Cork Blackrock and Passage line which went almost to Ringaskiddy....is this what you read?

(imo there is no scope whatsoever for a freight line such as you describe and there would be huge problems linking it into the National Network in any case.....

dowlingm

It would probably be cheaper to have a Jack Lynch style tunnel to Marino Point and pick up the track there. However roll on roll off ports don't tend to be very useful for railfreight given the end to end expectation of shipping by that mode.

Chances are therefore highly remote. There have been rumours of restarting railfreight in Cork but given that the Port doesn't seem to want to reopen the Tivoli spur I'm not sure what the point of that is - unless it's that shippers aren't happy with Cork Port and want to ship via Dublin.

Victor

You aren't just competing with Rosslare, but also Waterford and Dublin. Container (LO-LO) and roll-on-roll-off (RO-RO) are somewhat different markets anyway and they are partially affected by destination and the other ports the ship will be using.

Putting a railway along the 'beach' in Cobh would meet huge resistance, as it would completely alter the town and I'm not sure if a container port east of Cobh would work.

Taking a bridge from Cobh to Ringaskiddy directly is probably impractical - too much shipping. It would likely mean you would need an opening bridge to allow for shipping, a high level bridge would be impractical due to the required slopes.

If you wanted to do it, the most practical thing would be a bridge from Great Island to either Passage West or Monkstown, probably the latter, as a lot of the old alignment from Passage West or Monkstown is unlikely to be suitable. http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,577291,567394,4,10 Even south of Monkstown, there is very little space: https://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Cork+Road&daddr=South+Mall,+Cork&hl=en&ll=51.845535,-8.33519&spn=0.004905,0.030556&sll=51.838747,-8.438187&sspn=0.085913,0.244446&geocode=FTefFgMdDPJ__w%3BFQvkFwMdasV-_yGKDcrUeBPPnCm_bpP1D5BESDGKDcrUeBPPnA&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=12&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.845546,-8.33519&panoid=7R4lh3k4GCqq1hjFMP73dw&cbp=11,201.72,,0,7.99 Again, likely an opening bridge.

There would be the advantage of potentially providing a commuter rail service from the city to Monkstown, Ringaskiddy and Carrigaline. That said, while Carrigaline could easily be tagged-on, I'm not sure if journey times would be competitive to the city centre - it would beat bus to Kent Station, but not to Douglas or South Mall.

man98

Well, could it not be brought out via Rochestown (alongside the pathway that replaced it). I mmean, as long as it is publically owned land , that takes a lot of the effort away.

rainbowdash

Once L2 opens that could spell the end of cork and Waterford as container ports.

On the plus side if nearly all containers are arriving into Dublin there may be increased volume to reinstate container trains from Dublin to cork and limerick.

dowlingm

what's L2?

rainbowdash

dowlingm wrote: »

what's L2?

Its a new container port for Liverpool, which can handle the biggest container ships.

Means Liverpool will become a hub and ships from China etc. arrive there direct.

The benefit for Ireland could be shorter and cheaper transit times, but a lot more of the container freight in Ireland going through Dublin possibly.

rainbowdash

From lierpool ports website

Liverpool2 will see post-Panamax vessels of up to 13,500 TEU to call directly at the Port of Liverpool when it opens in 2015 – the same year the widening of the Panama Canal is due to be completed. The deep water terminal will attract some of the world’s largest container vessels to a centrally-located UK distribution hub and a population of 35 million consumers within a radius of 150 miles. Peel Ports’ £300 million investment will enable container ships from around the world to connect directly with the northern half of the UK and Ireland, and so serve a market estimated at around 4 million TEUs a year.

murphym7

rainbowdash wrote: »

From lierpool ports website

Liverpool2 will see post-Panamax vessels of up to 13,500 TEU to call directly at the Port of Liverpool when it opens in 2015 – the same year the widening of the Panama Canal is due to be completed. The deep water terminal will attract some of the world’s largest container vessels to a centrally-located UK distribution hub and a population of 35 million consumers within a radius of 150 miles. Peel Ports’ £300 million investment will enable container ships from around the world to connect directly with the northern half of the UK and Ireland, and so serve a market estimated at around 4 million TEUs a year.

Will not spell the end of Cork as a container port though, the feeder ships will still operate in and out of Cork. Can't speak for Waterford, but Cork will still operate as is. Just means there will be feeders coming from Liverpool too along with Rottedam, Fleixstowe ect.....

rainbowdash

murphym7 wrote: »

Will not spell the end of Cork as a container port though, the feeder ships will still operate in and out of Cork. Can't speak for Waterford, but Cork will still operate as is. Just means there will be feeders coming from Liverpool too along with Rottedam, Fleixstowe ect.....

If Liverpool Dublin is faster and cheaper then it will lead to a decline in Corks container freight volume for sure.

How detrimental it will be for Cork remains to be seen of course, it might not be any cheaper either.

man98

murphym7 wrote: »

Will not spell the end of Cork as a container port though, the feeder ships will still operate in and out of Cork. Can't speak for Waterford, but Cork will still operate as is. Just means there will be feeders coming from Liverpool too along with Rottedam, Fleixstowe ect.....

Well, unlike Cork, Waterford port still has a link for freight which is used a few times a week. Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, Coca-Cola and Glanbia use Waterford to export to Continental Europe. As it is closer than Dublin or Cork. There is no point sending these Mayo-Dublin- Liverpool- France (an example for Coke). When they can send it Mayo-Waterford-France, which is much quicker. So, I'm convinced Waterford won't be affected. Well, you'll always get ships into Cork. The harbour is 60 metres deep, so if you don't want to go via Liverpool then there is great possibilities for Lo-Lo and rail.

Victor

man98 wrote: »

Well, could it not be brought out via Rochestown (alongside the pathway that replaced it). I mmean, as long as it is publically owned land , that takes a lot of the effort away.

Are you sure you want to run freight trains through the city centre?

JeffK88

Wasn't there a proposal for something like this in 2005. Freight & Passenger traffic through the city and onto west cork think this the project not sure if it was to connect to Ringaskiddy though


http://www.invectis.co.uk/cork/Local%20Lines%20WEST%20CORK%20RAIL.pdf

Itssoeasy

Victor wrote: »

Are you sure you want to run freight trains through the city centre?

It worked grand till 1976.

corktina

2013 is a lot differnt from 1976....forget the Cork City Railway and forget the Blackrock line too!

roundymac

Why not move the container port to Marino Point? They could buy the site for a knock down price from NAMA, all they would have to do is build a proper quay. They can forget about putting the container port in Ringaskiddy. Waterford and a court judgement saw to that.

danotroy

roundymac wrote: »

Why not move the container port to Marino Point? They could buy the site for a knock down price from NAMA, all they would have to do is build a proper quay. They can forget about putting the container port in Ringaskiddy. Waterford and a court judgement saw to that.

a number of reason strike me with the marino point site.
Road access is very poor.
We do not transport freight by rail. Do we have the capacity?
the marino point site would need to be expanded as it is too small.
the site would require significant dredging to keep it operational. it is also a fast flowing water area that brings water around the back of the island.

Banjoxed

JeffK88 wrote: »

Wasn't there a proposal for something like this in 2005. Freight & Passenger traffic through the city and onto west cork think this the project not sure if it was to connect to Ringaskiddy though


http://www.invectis.co.uk/cork/Local%20Lines%20WEST%20CORK%20RAIL.pdf

Won't someone think of the road hauliers who will have the bit out of their mouths if rail freight gets even one more contract!

roundymac

danotroy wrote: »

a number of reason strike me with the marino point site.
Road access is very poor.
We do not transport freight by rail. Do we have the capacity?
the marino point site would need to be expanded as it is too small.
the site would require significant dredging to keep it operational. it is also a fast flowing water area that brings water around the back of the island.

Dredging! it never affected IFI when it was operational no more than what is needed anywhere else ships up to 15000 tonnes used to berth there. Road access is only bad for the last 3 miles or so, again there was no problem when it operated as IFI. Too small!! it is larger than Tivoli. There are plenty of cooling towers etc that when knoced will provide plenty of space, plus large storage area's around the rear of the complex.

Victor

It may impose limits on ship size.

It is also further from the sea than Ringaskiddy.

roundymac

It's only two miles further up river, as fopr the size of ship feeder container ships of the type that call at the moment are all that are needed and can be expected.

danotroy

what are the sizes of tivoli and marino? IIRC marino is about 110 acres.