Fire Safety Inspections in Apartment Blocks

keith16

Hi All,

Hopefully someone can shed some light.

I live in a fairly old apartment block (40 years) - it's a single block.

There is not many apartments - maybe 15, most owned by pensioners. Since moving in, I have been getting really hostile vibes and hear things in passing like "he's only renting". The main director of the management companies (who also acts as a kind of caretaker also lives there).

So that's the context but my main question relates to a notice they put up recently. It went along the lines of

We had an inspection from the fire safety people recently, and they have advised us on a number of things - no personal objects to be stored in the hallway, and bikes to be removed from the lobby.

When I moved in, there was loads of bikes in the (very large lobby, out of the way under the stairs) so I would leave mine there too.

Anyway, I have my suspicions that there was no inspection and this was their way of moving the bikes outside (there is no bike shed, just a rack).

I don't really care about the bike thing, but I would like to know

- who carries out such inspections?
- can I get a copy of their inspection report?
- would they consider a main entrance (locked every night) as a fire hazard?
- would they consider a second set of doors (accessed by fobs) with no emergency release button to be a hazard?

As I said, there are loads of other little things that annoy me about how they conduct themselves.

One day - the director of the management company knocked at my door and basically waltzed in like he owned the place.

I was putting out some rubbish another day and one of the residents was shouting out the window at me to make sure I separate my recycling, which was outrageous

The electricity meters are in a room which looks like it is a personal storage space for the maintenance guy and is locked, so I can only read my meter if I happen to be passing when it's open.

Basically, it looks like a large % of the residents have lived there for a long time and they have their way of doing things and to hell with anyone else, particularly if you rent - all facilitated by the mgmt company director who also lives here, which in my view, is something of a conflict of interest.

athtrasna

The council normally do fire safety checks afaik.

Bikes, buggies, personal property should never be stored in common areas, they are a fire hazard and could impede exit in the case of fire or other emergencies. There are also insurance issues.

On this issue anyway, the management company are right to act.

keith16

athtrasna wrote: »

The council normally do fire safety checks afaik.

Bikes, buggies, personal property should never be stored in common areas, they are a fire hazard and could impede exit in the case of fire or other emergencies. There are also insurance issues.

On this issue anyway, the management company are right to act.

I agree with that. Don't really have a problem with that aspect all but as I say, I have my suspicions that, while they are right to act in this regard, I don't believe they have done so in the correct manner.

As far as I know, bikes had been stored in a very large lobby and would do nothing to impeded safety / exit in case of a fire. I think there are other things (like the doors locked) that are potentially more dangerous.

Paulw

keith16 wrote: »

I think there are other things (like the doors locked) that are potentially more dangerous.

How are the doors locked? By key? By electric lock?

keith16

Paulw wrote: »

How are the doors locked? By key? By electric lock?

So there are two sets of doors as you head out from the lobby. First is opened by pressing a release button on the wall (you need a fob from the other side if you are going in).

The second set, which leads you outside, is by key.

keith16

So just to clarify and perhaps provide a TL;DR version

who carries out the fire inspection reports and are they freely available?

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

So just to clarify and perhaps provide a TL;DR version

who carries out the fire inspection reports and are they freely available?

I wouldn't think they are available to you. Your LL perhaps but I'd be surprised if you would have any right to ask the management company for a copy of said report.

I don't know what your problem is. It sounds like a fire hazard you were asked to move it.

Your insinuating your being targeted specifically because your renting but unless you were the only person asked to move your bike and everybody else has been allowed continue to leave their bikes in the same place you then you are not.

Build a bridge and get over it. If your not happy move out

markpb

All the fire safety equipment (smoke detectors, vents, break glass units, etc) must be inspected each year by a qualified person. This service is provided by private companies. The result of this goes to the OMC so it's up at the discretion of the board of directors if they want to show that to you - I don't think they're legally required to. They must state in the annual report that such an inspection did happen and give you the name of the company.

Additionally, the fire authority may decide to inspect a building for fire compliance but it's not a scheduled thing nor does it ever have to happen. AFAIK it only happens if they believe something to be amiss, e.g. complaint from the public, problems with other buildings built by the same developer. I don't know what the outcome of that is, I presume the fire authority would give the OMC or developer a list of actions to be rectified. Again, I'm not sure if they are legally obliged to pass it on.

keith16

D3PO wrote: »

I wouldn't think they are available to you. Your LL perhaps but I'd be surprised if you would have any right to ask the management company for a copy of said report.

Why not? I live there?

D3PO wrote: »

I don't know what your problem is. It sounds like a fire hazard you were asked to move it.

That's not my problem at all. If you don't know, perhaps read my post?

D3PO wrote: »

Build a bridge and get over it. If your not happy move out

Excellent advice there, thanks.

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

Why not? I live there?

Living there conveys you no rights outside of those available to a tenant. The same way you have no right to attend or vote at the MC AGM (Unless your LL nominates you as proxy) so what that you live there.


That's not my problem at all. If you don't know, perhaps read my post?


I did read your post, you have insinuated in the opening post your being treated unfairly and bullied because your renting.


Excellent advice there, thanks.

It is excellent advise a bike blocking a common hallway is a fire hazard you don't need to be a genius to know that, if your not happy then move out. Simple effective advice just because you haven't got the answer you want isn't my fault.

keith16

D3PO wrote: »

It is excellent advise a bike blocking a common hallway is a fire hazard you don't need to be a genius to know that, if your not happy then move out. Simple effective advice just because you haven't got the answer you want isn't my fault.

But you have answered a question I didn't ask. I never blocked any hallway with a bike and I have no problem storing it where ever needs be

I'm perfectly happy living there, but am I not able to question things? Moving out is not "simple effective advice" as you put it. I'm asking a few simple questions as to the nature of fire safety and you are telling me to move out? Get a grip.

keith16

D3PO wrote: »

you have insinuated in the opening post your being treated unfairly and bullied because your renting.

Bullied? Treated unfairly? I have insinuated nothing of the sort.

markpb

A lot of management companies have a blanket 'no stuff in the halls' rule for one very simple reason - it stops everything becoming a debate. In my block, one pram or one bike can safely fit under the stairs without blocking the fire escape route. However, if you let people put a bike or pram there, the first persons will fit, the second persons won't and they'll leave it there anyway, now causing a blockage.

Also, it doesn't take much to accidentally move a pram or bike (for example a kid messing with it) so it's no longer safely stowed away and is now causing an obstruction. If the first time you find out about it is at night with the building filled with smoke and lots of people trying to get out in a hurry, you'll be in a lot of trouble.

keith16

markpb wrote: »

A lot of management companies have a blanket 'no stuff in the halls' rule for one very simple reason - it stops everything becoming a debate. In my block, one pram or one bike can safely fit under the stairs without blocking the fire escape route. However, if you let people put a bike or pram there, the first persons will fit, the second persons won't and they'll leave it there anyway, now causing a blockage.

Also, it doesn't take much to accidentally move a pram or bike (for example a kid messing with it) so it's no longer safely stowed away and is now causing an obstruction. If the first time you find out about it is at night with the building filled with smoke and lots of people trying to get out in a hurry, you'll be in a lot of trouble.

That's a really good point and perfectly reasonable. As I say, I have no issue moving the bike at all.

But, I reckon there are other issues there, like the locked front door at night, and the fact there is no emergency release for the other door - maybe these aren't really a big deal?

Even if I never saw a fire report, (I don't particularly need to), how do I know their notice isn't just a simple way to get everyone to move their bikes / prams etc. How do I know all other fire safety issues have been addressed?

markpb

keith16 wrote: »

But, I reckon there are other issues there, like the locked front door at night, and the fact there is no emergency release for the other door - maybe these aren't really a big deal?

I'd regard any door that needs a key to get out as not a fire escape. Is there an alternative route? If there isn't, I'd drop a mail to the local fire officer and ask their opinion.

How do I know all other fire safety issues have been addressed?

You don't. It's a bit of an oddity in the law I guess. You could ask your landlord for a copy of it (tell him you're worried about what else was in it) and he could ask the board of directors of the management company. There are no guarantees though.

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

How do I know all other fire safety issues have been addressed?

The matter of compliance is for the safety officer to address not for you, therefore you don't need to know.

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

As I say, I have no issue moving the bike at all.

Then why mention the bike in your opening post at all ......

Marcusm

keith16 wrote: »

That's a really good point and perfectly reasonable. As I say, I have no issue moving the bike at all.

But, I reckon there are other issues there, like the locked front door at night, and the fact there is no emergency release for the other door - maybe these aren't really a big deal?

Even if I never saw a fire report, (I don't particularly need to), how do I know their notice isn't just a simple way to get everyone to move their bikes / prams etc. How do I know all other fire safety issues have been addressed?

There are a fair few similar blocks around. Dublin; generally in D4 and more settled southern suburbs. It's irrelevant whether there was a fire inspection or not as there is no general entitlement to store personal property in common areas. The neighbour who shouted out the window is a nosey or awkward neighbour; they exist everywhere.

It's not uncommon, especially in older blocks, for electric meters to be in locked off areas but you should be entitled to access with reasonable notice.

A friend has owned a flat in a similar block for 20 years, rented it to a family member for 15 and sat on the mgt company board for 10 years. She still gets a similar treatment to you. It's down to a certain supercilious attitude amongst educated people of a certain age - they've been conditioned to look down on people outside their pack.

Personally, I'd be a little subversive; not attack but undermine, offer to show them how to separate recycling etc, enforce entitlements (eg report the mgt co chairman for the sat dish o r BBQ on his balcony etc).

keith16

markpb wrote: »

I'd regard any door that needs a key to get out as not a fire escape. Is there an alternative route? If there isn't, I'd drop a mail to the local fire officer and ask their opinion.



You don't. It's a bit of an oddity in the law I guess. You could ask your landlord for a copy of it (tell him you're worried about what else was in it) and he could ask the board of directors of the management company. There are no guarantees though.

Cool, that makes sense, will see what I can get.

D3PO wrote: »

The matter of compliance is for the safety officer to address not for you, therefore you don't need to know.

So what, I should be happy and not ask any questions ever? Do you know what? That is a typical old-school Irish way of thinking. "Don't you be worrying about them things like a good lad, that's the fire safety persons job, not yours"

Well what about the former residents of priory hall? Maybe some more of those unfortunates should have asked questions about the standards of fire safety signed off, but they didn't. They placed all their trust in the authorities and we all know how that turned out. Who's fault is that? Is "moving out" the solution to their problem also?

D3PO wrote: »

Then why mention the bike in your opening post at all ......

It provides context - you know, a little bit of background? Sets the scene? It triggered me to start asking these questions. But according to you, maybe I should just accept all as is and forget about critical thinking and just move out.

Marcusm wrote: »

The neighbour who shouted out the window is a nosey or awkward neighbour; they exist everywhere.

It's not uncommon, especially in older blocks, for electric meters to be in locked off areas but you should be entitled to access with reasonable notice.

A friend has owned a flat in a similar block for 20 years, rented it to a family member for 15 and sat on the mgt company board for 10 years. She still gets a similar treatment to you. It's down to a certain supercilious attitude amongst educated people of a certain age - they've been conditioned to look down on people outside their pack.

Personally, I'd be a little subversive; not attack but undermine, offer to show them how to separate recycling etc, enforce entitlements (eg report the mgt co chairman for the sat dish o r BBQ on his balcony etc).

Actually this is it pretty much nail on the head. After the lady finished shouting at me, I asked her if she would come down and help me to which I got a funny look!

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

Well what about the former residents of priory hall? Maybe some more of those unfortunates should have asked questions about the standards of fire safety signed off, but they didn't. They placed all their trust in the authorities and we all know how that turned out. Who's fault is that? Is "moving out" the solution to their problem also?

For those renting moving out was the solution yes, for those who own that's a different kettle of fish, but as you don't own that's not a scenario what would concern you

It provides context - you know, a little bit of background? Sets the scene? It triggered me to start asking these questions. But according to you, maybe I should just accept all as is and forget about critical thinking and just move out.

So why mention the comment about the recycling and quoting your neighbours as saying he's just renting then. That adds no relevant context. Of course this is because you are deciding to move the goalposts now.

Actually this is it pretty much nail on the head. After the lady finished shouting at me, I asked her if she would come down and help me to which I got a funny look!

If your concerned that the block isn't up to fire regulations then ask the MC for a copy of the report, if they show I to you so be it but there is no obligation for them to do so.

If they don't then you either decide that this unknown factor is something you can or cant live with. If you can that's the end of it if not then you move out. Its pretty black and white.

keith16

D3PO wrote: »

If your concerned that the block isn't up to fire regulations then ask the MC for a copy of the report, if they show I to you so be it but there is no obligation for them to do so.

If they don't then you either decide that this unknown factor is something you can or cant live with. If you can that's the end of it if not then you move out. Its pretty black and white.

Well it does concern me. Why shouldn't I be concerned?

So my options are, surrender myself to the whims of the MC, or move out or don't move out?

If that's really your advice, then great, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. But there's no need for it to be accompanied with such a poisonous tone.

D3PO

keith16 wrote: »

Well it does concern me. Why shouldn't I be concerned?

So my options are, surrender myself to the whims of the MC, or move out or don't move out?

If that's really your advice, then great, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. But there's no need for it to be accompanied with such a poisonous tone.

Unfortunately living in an apartment weather you own or rent means you will always be at the behest of the MC. That's life and you either live with that or you really shouldn't be living in a managed estate

Just because I'm not prepared to tell you how unfair it is to you as a tenant doesn't make my input poisonous. I have no time for self pity and Im direct with my answers and solutions which Ive clearly outlined to you.

If the end result isn't what you like theres nothing you can do to change it.

keith16

Clearly outlined? You have given me nothing but conjecture based on your own opinion:

D3PO wrote: »

I wouldn't think they are available to you....

I'd be surprised if you would have any right....

D3PO wrote: »

Just because I'm not prepared to tell you how unfair it is to you as a tenant doesn't make my input poisonous. I have no time for self pity

Self pity? I honestly don't know where you are getting this stuff from but you are reading things that I have simply not said. I don't pity myself at all and I'm not asking anywhere on this thread to be told how unfair things are on me.

D3PO wrote: »

Build a bridge and get over it. If your not happy move out

I never said your input was poisonous, merely it's tone. There is no need for the above, it's only a cheap shot. But hey, no skin off my nose.