Insulate Old Terraced House

Dofarrell

Hi all

I would like to insulate an old terraced house in Stoneybatter.

I plan on using internal insulation, there is no cavity wall. My concerns/questions relate to the age of the house as I assume a very specific approach is required when dealing with an older house?

General advice would be great. At the moment I am looking at dry lining.
Also if anyone could recommend an installer that would be great. I would like to qualify for the SEAI grant.


Thanks in advance


D

Outkast_IRE

Dofarrell wrote: »

Hi all

I would like to insulate an old terraced house in Stoneybatter.

I plan on using internal insulation, there is no cavity wall. My concerns/questions relate to the age of the house as I assume a very specific approach is required when dealing with an older house?

General advice would be great. At the moment I am looking at dry lining.
Also if anyone could recommend an installer that would be great. I would like to qualify for the SEAI grant.


Thanks in advance


D

Are the walls solid walls ? as in brick, solid block or stone ?

I would take the approach that external insulation is a far superior option when dealing with solid walls.

Dofarrell

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Are the walls solid walls ? as in brick, solid block or stone ?

I would take the approach that external insulation is a far superior option when dealing with solid walls.

Hi

They are solid brick walls.

I take your point but, for various reasons, external insulation is not an option so my focus has to be on internal insulation.

Outkast_IRE

Ok is there any dampness or any sign of water ingress in any of the walls

Dofarrell

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Ok is there any dampness or any sign of water ingress in any of the walls

No dampness or blustering of paint on any of the external walls however there is dampness on an internal wall between my house and neighbours (caused rainwater in chimney breast)

My hope is that internal insulation combined with draught excluders and a couple of new aluminium rads will make a significant difference

Outkast_IRE

Dofarrell wrote: »

No dampness or blustering of paint on any of the external walls however there is dampness on an internal wall between my house and neighbours (caused rainwater in chimney breast)

My hope is that internal insulation combined with draught excluders and a couple of new aluminium rads will make a significant difference

What are the rooms like in terms of ventilation , is there dedicated wall vents or window vents ?

Dofarrell

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

What are the rooms like in terms of ventilation , is there dedicated wall vents or window vents ?

Good question!

Seems to be no dedicated vent so windows provide ventilation. There is a vent at front of house but I believe this runs air under the floor boards if that makes sense.

shane0007

If you are doing internal & looking for SEAI grant assistance, you might find you will not qualify.
Kitchen units & bathrooms will have to removed & replaced. Also the staircase might be an issue if it is narrow as the insulation might affect the minimum allowable staircase width.
All these are get out clauses for the grant payment.
It might be best to do room by room as budget allows & spend lost of your budget on the north facing walls. Then east & west. Anything left gets spent on the south.

Dofarrell

shane0007 wrote: »

If you are doing internal & looking for SEAI grant assistance, you might find you will not qualify.
Kitchen units & bathrooms will have to removed & replaced. Also the staircase might be an issue if it is narrow as the insulation might affect the minimum allowable staircase width.
All these are get out clauses for the grant payment.
It might be best to do room by room as budget allows & spend lost of your budget on the north facing walls. Then east & west. Anything left gets spent on the south.

Good point

I think I'm lucky as house is mid terrace so only need to focus on front and back walls. Will be no need to move kitchen and bathroom appliances.

I am curious about the best approach to take, material to be used, recommended builders etc. Any views on this?

Outkast_IRE

Dofarrell wrote: »

Good point

I think I'm lucky as house is mid terrace so only need to focus on front and back walls. Will be no need to move kitchen and bathroom appliances.

I am curious about the best approach to take, material to be used, recommended builders etc. Any views on this?

In my experience many builders aren't that great with regards to insulation, they seem to think lash the slab to the wall and it will be grand.

I have found some dedicated insulation companies to be better and more knowledgeable with regard to needing ventilation, and being quickly able to assess any obstacles to grant being paid.

But insulation companies are the same as the others, there are some who want to do the job as cheap and quick as possible and others who wont undertake the work unless they can do it right, regarding ventilation etc.

shane0007

Polyiso or phenolic foam is best. Phenolic is very expensive though so norm would be polyiso.
Kingspan or Xtratherm would beat let leaders.
Most suppliers would be stockist of both but it is always best to give your quantities to the manufacturer's rep, get a price set by them & then buy through your local supplier.

We have an old house - 1930's 2 up, 2 down. We insulated the external walls only, (On the inside, if that makes sense). There was no need to do stairwell. There are no ventilation vents at all. We blocked off all chimneys too. We fixed the insulation boards straight on to the walls and had the whole place hardwalled. We did them ourselves, room by room and it's a great job.

shane0007

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have an old house - 1930's 2 up, 2 down. We insulated the external walls only, (On the inside, if that makes sense). There was no need to do stairwell. There are no ventilation vents at all. We blocked off all chimneys too. We fixed the insulation boards straight on to the walls and had the whole place hardwalled. We did them ourselves, room by room and it's a great job.

Just be careful of interstitial condensation within the structure caused by lack of ventilation, especially if you have sealed up chimneys.

shane0007

shane0007 wrote: »

Just be careful of interstitial condensation within the structure caused by lack of ventilation, especially if you have sealed up chimneys.

We've holes drilled in the boards in front of chimneys, low down near skirting board. Would that be enough? We knocked the chimney stacks down, when we put on a new roof, but the chimneys are open into the roof space.

shane0007

It would depend on the number & size of the holes, but generally it should be ok. If you were worried about it, you should seek advice from a Chartered Surveyor.

dathi

Deleted User wrote: »

We've holes drilled in the boards in front of chimneys, low down near skirting board. Would that be enough? We knocked the chimney stacks down, when we put on a new roof, but the chimneys are open into the roof space.

you are now taking warm moist air from your rooms and dumping it into your cold attic where the moisture will condense onto the roof timbers . this may lead to wet rot problems in the future.

shane0007

dathi wrote: »

you are now taking warm moist air from your rooms and dumping it into your cold attic where the moisture will condense onto the roof timbers . this may lead to wet rot problems in the future.

Not if the roof space is properly cross ventilated which it should be.

Dardania

We externally insulated the external walls of our solid block 2 up 2 down terrace in South Dublin, and it turned out excellent.

We approached ventilation just before the insulation works (for neatness of works reasons so that the inuslation could properly seal the ventilation opes) - we really needed the ventilation provided, as there was problems with dampness. Even beofre we got insulated, but had the ventilation sorted, it was quite a difference to look at our neightbours windows versus ours in the morning for dampness

The external insulation we used was 100mm by http://sempretherm.ie/systems/maresil-polysilicate-system/ , fitted by a knowledgable contracotr, using the SEAI's http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Warmer_Homes_Scheme/ . We incidientially were audited by SEAI to ensure the grant was used correctly, and they considered the work excellent. Subjectively for us, the house was much more stable temperature wise when the boiler clicked off, and maintained its heat better.

OP, if you can, re-examine why you can't externally insulate. It offers great advantages over internal:
- new appearance
- using the thermal mass correctly
- no danger of dampness forming between block & insulation
- improvements to airtightness
- mostly no impact decoratively internally (we had to filla few cracks when the windows sills were replaced...nothing major)
- no thermal bridges between floors etc.

And as a point of note, you don't need to insulate the party walls between you and next door...both these spaces should be at the same (thereabouts) internal temperature, so no heat lossess between...

clarkanio

Hi folks,

Like DoFarrell, I also want to insulate the internal walls of an old house - ours is a 2 storey, end-of-terrace Victorian home built around 1890. We haven't moved in yet so figured we should do this work before we do.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that insulating old houses (with solid walls) is a lot trickier than insulating a modern house, due to the way an old house 'breaths' or deals with moisture - cold bridging issues, etc.

I'm concerned that a lot of modern builders don't understand the way old houses work and will install the wrong materials that will do more harm than good. Can anybody recommend a Dublin based company who are skilled in insulating these type of houses?

I'd also love to get some information on the best types of materials to use that will allow moisture to move through the walls.

Cheers

shane0007

An often overlooked issue with any insulation is the consideration needed for gas appliances or any fossil fuel air consuming appliance.
Insulation contractors are generally not RGI's & thus give no consideration to ventilation for gas fires, open flued appliances, cookers, hobs, etc.
If the homeowner does have any of these appliances ALWAYS seek the advice of an RGI or similar to calculate the required ventilation for the appliance(s). Many already installed are incorrect so a good time to correct it. The other thing is the insulation contractor just thinks a vent is a vent, so any size & location will do.
It's becoming more & more of an issue everyday & IMHO it should be part of their certification course, not to calculate it but to understand the importance of it, so they know when to get somebody qualified to calculate for them.

clarkanio

Thanks Shane007. I'll definitely keep that top of mind when undertaking the work.

The main rooms we want to insulate are 2 reception rooms downstairs and 3 bedrooms upstairs (possibly the hall/stairs depending on cost). They all have fireplaces apart from the smallest bedroom; we intend blocking all but 1 downstairs fireplaces to prevent heat escaping, which presumably will have ventilation issues?

Can you recommend or PM me any contractors and materials you think would be good for the job?

shane0007

clarkanio wrote: »

Can you recommend or PM me any contractors and materials you think would be good for the job?

I don't really know any that are still in business. I only know a bit about insulation as I done a City & Guilds course about 4 years ago in insulation, only so I could understand how to calculate heat losses better when evaluating for heating systems.
It would be better to speak to professionals in this area who are dealing with it in everyday life, or indeed professionals here on Boards.