Push Pull

metrovick001

6101 leading the 1130 Galway Heuston passing Ballinasloe 19-April-2009.

Is that a DART horn? I always assumed it was.

CaptainFreedom

Karsini wrote: »

Is that a DART horn? I always assumed it was.

Most likely - some of the control cars ran on DART bogies too for a time, withdrawn before their time, but lets not go there

CaptainFreedom

CaptainFreedom wrote: »

Most likely - some of the control cars ran on DART bogies too for a time, withdrawn before their time, but lets not go there

Yeah I remember that, the 6100s had LHB DART bogies and this was the official explanation for their 70mph speed restriction. However the limit was never increased when the bogies were exchanged for BT22s.

metrovick001

Definitely a 8100 DART horn.
I think IE also feared the consequences of a control car hitting an object on the line at 90 MPH, ie, would the relatively light weight DVT allow it to hop off the rails where as a loco had more inertia due to its higher weight & would be less likely to deviate from its path.
Anyway, history now sadly.

metrovick001

Captain Chaos

The ol Mk7 test train.:D

Rud

What a fantastic video.I love it

Jamie2k9

The PP sets were great and when they introduced the Café/Bar carriage on 99% of the time Waterford route it was by far the best carriage operating on the network. Was so comfortable and the lighting in it was great, easy on the eyes as well.

I travelled the Mark3 PP sets by far the most over other Mark 3's followed by Mark 2's.

metrovick001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0V0yDLViw

October 2007.
Back then it was "only just a pushpull" but Im glad I captured a few of them at work.

corktina

metrovick001 wrote: »

Definitely a 8100 DART horn.
I think IE also feared the consequences of a control car hitting an object on the line at 90 MPH, ie, would the relatively light weight DVT allow it to hop off the rails where as a loco had more inertia due to its higher weight & would be less likely to deviate from its path.
Anyway, history now sadly.

that's an old Chesnut that I thought had been thoroughly discredited. If that were likely no multiple units would be allowed to run. Push pull trains are used extensively at full speed in the UK and elsewhere everyday of the week and have been for many years.

L1011

corktina wrote: »

that's an old Chesnut that I thought had been thoroughly discredited. If that were likely no multiple units would be allowed to run. Push pull trains are used extensively at full speed in the UK and elsewhere everyday of the week and have been for many years.

There have been incidents in the UK where a derailment was attributed to the control car hitting an obstruction and not the loco, though. Recommendations have generally been to increase fencing of the railway rather than anything else.

corktina

I think it was found that it didn't make a lot of difference as it is a whole train hitting something and it didn't really make any odds which end the loco was . 500 tonnes at 100 mph vs a cow only really has one outcome.

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

I think it was found that it didn't make a lot of difference as it is a whole train hitting something and it didn't really make any odds which end the loco was . 500 tonnes at 100 mph vs a cow only really has one outcome.

Loco is over twice the weight of most coaches. If its at the front it will withstand the impact of the majority of accidents but if its at the back it will push forward if the driver hasn't applied the breaks in time and you hit something coaches will be pushed back on impact and the loco will push forward with the gap and damage the coaches. It will cause more damage to the train.

Do a trip in the coach behind the 201 on the Cork line and you will see big difference from the loco pulling to pushing.

Captain Chaos

Still though the physics involved, a 35 ton vehicle leading with a 100 ton loco at the back pushing the train along. If it were a landslide like what happened on the Cork line a few years ago that 229 ran into, the loco stayed upright and still going in the right direction. If that was a DVT leading it may well have jack knifed and or rolled on it's side. A train with the DVT leading has more uncontrolled inertia coming behind it in the event of a derailed crash as apposed the loco leading.

Two notable incidents in the UK where push-pull operation was stated as being a contributory factor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polmont_rail_crash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash

corktina

it's not a 35 tonne vehicle hitting something, it's the whole 500 tonnes. Modern couplings minimise jack-knifing and telescoping.

Your knowledge of trains is flawed if you think the loco will power forward through the coaches

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

it's not a 35 tonne vehicle hitting something, it's the whole 500 tonnes. Modern couplings minimise jack-knifing and telescoping.

Your knowledge of trains is flawed if you think the loco will power forward through the coaches

It's all about impact and not the while weight of a train.

DVT via Locomotive. 100,000 caused by a cow hitting a DVT while testing a few years ago while it will no where near this from Wednesday, most likely just breaks repaired and a little work done to the front of the locomotive.

metrovick001

Id say it was most likely a case of the DVT hitting the cow rather than the cow hitting the DVT! I hope the dining car had good steak for thr remainder of the week.

MGWR

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Loco is over twice the weight of most coaches. If it's at the front it will withstand the impact of the majority of accidents but if it's at the back it will push forward if the driver hasn't applied the brakes in time and you hit something coaches will be pushed back on impact and the loco will push forward with the gap and damage the coaches. It will cause more damage to the train

No, that will not happen. Never heard of emergency braking and auto-regression?

Grandeeod

metrovick001 wrote: »

Id say it was most likely a case of the DVT hitting the cow rather than the cow hitting the DVT! I hope the dining car had good steak for thr remainder of the week.

RAIL KILL:D

Losty Dublin

Grandeeod wrote: »

RAIL KILL:D

"Line" beef?

steamengine

An udder possibility is the cow thought the horn of the 201 was one of the herd calling and just couldn't moo-ve out of the way in time ! A sad tail indeed !

metrovick001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v598L5nZgQ8