Wedding deposit

Homeless11

Hi

I was wondering if anyone can offer advice. We booked our wedding in last year and for personal reasons we have had to cancel. We paid a deposit of €1500 and have given them over a years notice of the cancellation. At the time of signing the contract it did state that the deposit was non refundable but they never supplied us with a copy ( hindsight is a great thing) so I am unsure as to what else it states. They did say the amount was transferrable to another date but this is not an option for us. We only have a receipt. The wedding is on a Saturday in the summer and this is an exclusive venue which I know they will have no problem selling on this date. Do we have any case to take further? All they gave us for our €1500 was a half hour of their time. I understand contracts are there for a reason but surely over a years notice would mean something, we re distraught to say the least considering how accommodating all of our other suppliers for the day have been. I would really appreciate any advice

Many thanks

Paulw

Technically, if it says it's non-refundable, then that's that. You paid, and it's gone unless you use that date or another.

But, on the other side of things, if you give them that much notice, and put your case to them directly, politely, they may be generous and refund you or at least give you a partial refund.

Yes, contracts are in place, and you do need to understand what the deposit is for. Unless there is a specific clause for a refund, then you are at their mercy.

Best of luck.

MagicMarker

The deposit is non refundable, end of.

Lesson learned.

Red Nissan

For wedding photographers it is customary not to refund. I can be nearly impossible to resell a date, the best you could ask, assuming they have refused a refund already, if you could find them a suitable couple to take your place and you keep [their] deposit.

LowKeyReturn

If the date is so easy to sell, sell it.

Oryx

You are not legally* entitled to have the deposit returned, so you will have to appeal to their goodwill.

*subject to the terms of your contract, naturally.

LowKeyReturn

Oryx wrote: »

You are not legally entitled to have the deposit returned, so you will have to appeal to their goodwill.

Ah see, now you're making sweeping statement that just make be want to challenge them. Unless of course you've made a through search of the legal authorities on the matter at which point I stand to be corrected.

One possible avenue is the that the contract is a standard form contract and the term may be unfair. I'm not in a position to give the OP an opinion on that and in the first instance, an appeal to goodwill is certainly the best option as would be selling the venue on if the OP is so convinced that it will rebook.

Linky

Not having a copy of the contract doesn't help, get a copy from the venue ASAP.

Oryx

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Ah see, now you're making sweeping statement that just make be want to challenge them. Unless of course you've made a through search of the legal authorities on the matter at which point I stand to be corrected.

One possible avenue is the that the contract is a standard form contract and the term may be unfair. I'm not in a position to give the OP an opinion on that and in the first instance, an appeal to goodwill is certainly the best option as would be selling the venue on if the OP is so convinced that it will rebook.

Linky

Not having a copy of the contract doesn't help, get a copy from the venue ASAP.

The op said it was stated as non refundable. They don't have a copy of the contract. We can only give general advice here, and generally, deposits, unless agreed otherwise, are non refundable. So going on what has been said here, they need to plead their case to the supplier.

In some cases I believe, someone who has placed a deposit can be pursued for the balance, most people don't realise this.

You're getting into the nitty gritty of the situation, and the small print of their contract, and I would think that would require someone legal to look over the contract for them, if they can get a copy.

LowKeyReturn

Oryx wrote: »

The op said it was stated as non refundable. They don't have a copy of the contract. We can only give general advice here, and generally, deposits, unless agreed otherwise, are non refundable. So going on what has been said here, they need to plead their case to the supplier.

In some cases I believe, someone who has placed a deposit can be pursued for the balance, most people don't realise this.

You're getting into the nitty gritty of the situation, and the small print of their contract, and I would think that would require someone legal to look over the contract for them, if they can get a copy.

Granted but I do refer you to word four of your original post, the other 'L-word'. :P

Oryx

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Granted but I do refer you to word four of your original post, the other 'L-word'. :P

Happy now?:P

Jack Kyle

You're not entitled to a refund.

Forget about it and don't embarrass yourself.

P. Breathnach

If they hold your deposit, then they should also hold the date available for you. That gives you a basis for negotiation. Suggest to the venue that if they can get another booking, you will release them from their obligation to you in exchange for the return of a good chunk of your deposit.

Jack Kyle

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If they hold your deposit, then they should also hold the date available for you. That gives you a basis for negotiation. Suggest to the venue that if they can get another booking, you will release them from their obligation to you in exchange for the return of a good chunk of your deposit.

Oh Jesus Christ.

Now we're into blackmail.

The OP agreed to pay a non refundable deposit.

LowKeyReturn

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Oh Jesus Christ.

Now we're into blackmail.

The OP agreed to pay a non refundable deposit.

I suggest you look up the definition of blackmail beyond bands of roving Scots. The rules of contract law are there to protect both parties and ensure some level of fairness. If the venue resell the date then it's only right the OP gets the deposit back less some small reduction for costs.

tatli_lokma

Try posting your date and venue on the weddings and marriage forum. If it is a Saturday in a popular venue you would have had good chance of selling the date. Some other couple gets a Saturday without having to wait 2 years and you get your deposit back. Win-win!!

A friend of mine had to cancel her wedding - much closer to the date. The hotel were lovely about it and told her that if they could get another booking, she would get her deposit back. Ask them if that's an option? If they sell your date, can you please be refunded, even at a loss of a 20% admin fee perhaps.

ted1

Had you confirmed numbers ? Was numbers and the final price on the contract. As your not going to get it back tell them that the final number is 4 people, enjoy yourselves..

Homeless11

Thanks for all the replies. I would have thought that Deposits are down payments made on renderable services. If the services is not rendered the money must legally be returned. The exception being if it is close enough to the date that the vendor has started paying for items. Will contact them today and request a copy of the contract but surely they cannot keep the deposit if they sell the date as they are not out of pocket? And yes I am confident they will have no trouble selling it as we had tried to move our date and all dates requested were booked, so we can't transfer to a date of our choice

Thanks

mloc123

ted1 wrote: »

Had you confirmed numbers ? Was numbers and the final price on the contract. As your not going to get it back tell them that the final number is 4 people, enjoy yourselves..

Every venue will have minimum numbers of 80/90+ for a Saturday during the summer months.

Homeless11

Also when we called them to say we had to cancel and asked if our deposit was refundable the girl said "I'll look into it, send of an email to confirm cancellation" which we did and no contact for a week, then arrives a registered letter, seriously thought it was the deposit, say our date was cancelled and deposit non refundable. So we neither have the date nor deposit?

ted1

mloc123 wrote: »

Every venue will have minimum numbers of 80/90+ for a Saturday during the summer months.

No as not all venues can take those numbers and it may not be in the contract

andrewdeerpark

That registered letter trick is very mean and nasty, I suggest getting tough and playing nasty.

Book the hotel restaurant for the original scheduled date with a group of say 10 (approx value of 1500), round up some family, friends and maybe your new partner in life and have a good meal out and drink at the establishment, at the end of the night slap down the 1500 docket as payment and thanks very much.

Be brazen do not bring any cash or credit cards with you and get some value out of it.

Jack Kyle

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

That registered letter trick is very mean and nasty, I suggest getting tough and playing nasty.

Book the hotel restaurant for the original scheduled date with a group of say 10 (approx value of 1500), round up some family, friends and maybe your new partner in life and have a good meal out and drink at the establishment, at the end of the night slap down the 1500 docket as payment and thanks very much.

Be brazen do not bring any cash or credit cards with you and get some value out of it.

Ignore this ludicrous advice unless behaving like a scumbag is your thing.

People seem to be missing the point. The OP knew that the deposit was non refundable. Whether the hotel can sell the date or not is irrelevant. Making deposits non redundable discourages tyre kickers and gives the hotel a bit of protection.

Ignore the keyword warriors, OP, and do the decent thing and move on.

andrewdeerpark

Why did the hotel not give a straight answer when asked whether the deposit was not refundable, then when her back was turned dispatch a registered letter cancelling the date and keeping the deposit, is that not scumbag form?

andrewdeerpark

They could have offered 20% back or a meal in the restaurant but nothing except a registered letter???

Jack Kyle

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Why did the hotel not give a straight answer when asked whether the deposit was not refundable, then when her back was turned dispatch a registered letter cancelling the date and keeping the deposit, is that not scumbag form?

Sorry, am I missing something? It says on the booking form that the deposit is non refundable. The OP just said "pretty please" and the hotel have declined.

I fully agree with deposits being non refundable. It weeds out the messers and lessens the administrative burden for the hotel.

P. Breathnach

There is an issue of fairness involved. As OP cancelled very early, and the venue has an excellent chance of re-selling the date, pocketing the entire deposit seems unfair. It would be different if the cancellation was within, say, 3-6 months in advance.

It is worth considering whether SI 27/1995 applies. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

Jack Kyle

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There is an issue of fairness involved. As OP cancelled very early, and the venue has an excellent chance of re-selling the date, pocketing the entire deposit seems unfair. It would be different if the cancellation was within, say, 3-6 months in advance.

It is worth considering whether SI 27/1995 applies. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

The OP went into this with her eyes open. It said explicitly on the booking form that the deposit was non refundable. Whether they can re-sell the date or not is irrelevant. What if in the interim the hotel has had to turn away a far bigger and more lucrative wedding?

There are far too many instances of hidden charges, scams and ripoffs. Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it.

The OP's behaviour is embarrassing in my view.

hoodwinked

honestly op take it as lesson learned, if you should ever be putting a deposit on another venue/date use this as one of the things to renegotiate,

we refused point blank to put down €1500 as a deposit with our venue, we told them 2 years beforehand was a ridiculous timescale for that size deposit,


in the end €500 sealed the date, with €500 six months beforehand, and €500 the week before, and they agreed to this, so next time try and negotiate if they have a non-refundable deposit argument.

this time round i think you need to take it on the chin and move on.

P. Breathnach

Jack Kyle wrote: »

... Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it....

Your dedication to telling OP to suck up a loss of €1500 is impressive.

It is worth asking if "what it says on the tin" (which, seemingly, was not even communicated in writing to OP) is an unfair term.

Homeless11

Jack Kyle wrote: »

The OP went into this with her eyes open. It said explicitly on the booking form that the deposit was non refundable. Whether they can re-sell the date or not is irrelevant. What if in the interim the hotel has had to turn away a far bigger and more lucrative wedding?

There are far too many instances of hidden charges, scams and ripoffs. Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it.

The OP's behaviour is embarrassing in my view.

Why is my behaviour embarrassing? I'm simply asking advice not acting on it

3DataModem

The "we'll check about deposit" and sending registered letter nonsense is a dirty trick... that ensures they can keep your deposit AND resell the date, which is not fair at all.

I would write back stating that as the terms of the cancellation hasn't been agreed that the date was still reserved for you.

Then turn up in person and negotiate. You may not have a leg to stand on as you cancelled in writing already.

Jack Kyle

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Your dedication to telling OP to suck up a loss of €1500 is impressive.

It is worth asking if "what it says on the tin" (which, seemingly, was not even communicated in writing to OP) is an unfair term.

The OP signed a booking form which said that the deposit is non refundable.

P. Breathnach

Jack Kyle wrote: »

The OP signed a booking form which said that the deposit is non refundable.

It might still be unfair, and give rise to a remedy under the European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995.

Jack Kyle

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It might still be unfair, and give rise to a remedy under the European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts) Regulations, 1995.

How so?

If that were the case, all non refundable deposits would fall foul of the regulations.

P. Breathnach

Jack Kyle wrote: »

How so?

If that were the case, all non refundable deposits would fall foul of the regulations.

Not necessarily. But some might.

Fey!

@OP; considering that you didn't get a copy of the original contract, was it clearly stated that the deposit was non refundable when you paid it?

It is my understanding that in a situation where you make a booking with a hotel and have to cancel, if they can sell that room then the general rule of thumb is that you'll get any deposit refunded (when dealing with hotel rooms, not necessarily functions).

mossy2

Jack Kyle wrote: »

do the decent thing and move on.

Decency is a 2 way street. One party behaving "decently" while the other party behaves in what, from what we've heard, is a very shabby manner is not reasonable. Responding to a query from the OP with a cancellation of the booking and a registered letter informing them that they were keeping the deposit strikes me as very unfair.

I would suggest the small claims court. If it is shown that the hotel hasn't lost out materially you may get something back. They never gave you a copy of the contract - are they legally obliged to? What have you got to lose? You certainly have been treated unfairly in my view. Also, going to SMC will put their name out in the public domain on this issue. If they are happy that their behavior is above reproach this won't be an issue for them.

RubyGirl

Small claims court aswell, bit unfair on the hotel when you are giving them such notice.

TheDriver

just be careful, you have no contract to look over so that should be number one. I would advise against SCC etc until you know exactly where you stand because as one poster said, you might suddenly get a solicitors letter that you owe them for the whole wedding etc (I know, a bit extreme) but make sure you have your bases covered before embarking on action

Shelflife

It sounds like poor form from the hotel. Ive no problem with the deposit being non refundable, but given that the op gave them plenty of notice and if they resold the date then they should give some if not all of the deposit back.

the deposit is there to protect the hotel, its not a money making win on the double device. getting the op to confirm the cancelation in writing and then sending the reg letter was very underhand imo.

I would arrange a meeting with the hotel and talk to them and get a copy of the contract that you entered into and see will they try to be reasonable.

sandin

IMO, it really is down to the venue's goodwill.

Weddings at some venues are booked 2-3 years in advance - a small part of my business has to do with weddings and 2015 has come up on about 20% of orders already, so a non refundable deposit 12 months plus would not be seen as unreasonable.

Best way to approach this is to write POLITELY back (ignore the fools who say run up a bill and run away) and ask if they could look at the situation again considering the long advance notice and then also suggest that you would be happy that the refund be made upon another booking being taken for that date.


Assuming a wedding is going ahead at a future date and also for others out there - take out wedding cancellation insurance. Its quite cheap and covers everything from cancellations like this and places and service providers closing down / letting you down. ( a quick google shows insurance from about €50!!!)

Homeless11

Thanks for all your replies, needless to say I don't think anyone could just take it on the chin and walk away as many have suggested. I ll keep looking into and see what happens, have requested a copy of the contract to start with, will see how it goes

rubadub

Jack Kyle wrote: »

Forget about it and don't embarrass yourself.

Whats all this "embarassing" nonsense.

I would be far more embarrassed to be the person in the hotel who has to tell somebody to their face that they are getting absolutely nothing back.

I would also be far more embarrassed to tell my friends I did absolutely nothing to attempt to get it back, I would look like a complete idiot to not even question it, -especially when in many other threads and instances I heard offline I do see businesses not sticking to their written rules, many highly value goodwill, and rightly so.

There is lots of notice so should get another booking, and could at least offer vouchers for their hotel to the value of the deposit.

mossy2

Homeless11 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies, needless to say I don't think anyone could just take it on the chin and walk away as many have suggested. I ll keep looking into and see what happens, have requested a copy of the contract to start with, will see how it goes

Make sure that they give you a copy of the actual contract that you signed. Otherwise it would not, in my view, have any legal standing. There's nothing to stop them drafting a brand new contract when they see trouble looming. Their previous behavior has been pretty underhanded so you can't assume that they will act in good faith.

On another point completely - do the contents of the registered letter represent the considered view of the hotel? There is a possibility that it was drafted by an over-ambitious under-manager. I would agree with the earlier poster who suggests that you make another approach to the hotel but that this time you make sure that you are communicating with the person who has the final say. It may be a misunderstanding insofar as your original query was dealt with by an individual who acted beyond their authority (and competence). Perhaps the owner/general manager could clear the matter up amicably? If this turns out to be a naive approach then look into small claims court where the Judge will decide whether you've been treated fairly or not.

JimsAlterEgo

mossy2 wrote: »

Make sure that they give you a copy of the actual contract that you signed. Otherwise it would not, in my view, have any legal standing. There's nothing to stop them drafting a brand new contract when they see trouble looming. Their previous behavior has been pretty underhanded so you can't assume that they will act in good faith.

On another point completely - do the contents of the registered letter represent the considered view of the hotel? There is a possibility that it was drafted by an over-ambitious under-manager. I would agree with the earlier poster who suggests that you make another approach to the hotel but that this time you make sure that you are communicating with the person who has the final say. It may be a misunderstanding insofar as your original query was dealt with by an individual who acted beyond their authority (and competence). Perhaps the owner/general manager could clear the matter up amicably? If this turns out to be a naive approach then look into small claims court where the Judge (yes, a judge - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html ) will decide whether you've been treated fairly or not.

I would second that, just because something is in a contract doesnt necessarily make it fair and binding. Losing a full deposit given the timeframe could be in that realm, especailly if they can sell the day again. You could get lucky and get a sympathetic judge, they are human and you never know something like that could have happened a family member.

runawaybishop

Homeless11 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies, needless to say I don't think anyone could just take it on the chin and walk away as many have suggested. I ll keep looking into and see what happens, have requested a copy of the contract to start with, will see how it goes

Any update on this?