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Wedding deposit

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  • 10-08-2013 9:58am
    #1
    Homeless11
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭


    Hi

    I was wondering if anyone can offer advice. We booked our wedding in last year and for personal reasons we have had to cancel. We paid a deposit of €1500 and have given them over a years notice of the cancellation. At the time of signing the contract it did state that the deposit was non refundable but they never supplied us with a copy ( hindsight is a great thing) so I am unsure as to what else it states. They did say the amount was transferrable to another date but this is not an option for us. We only have a receipt. The wedding is on a Saturday in the summer and this is an exclusive venue which I know they will have no problem selling on this date. Do we have any case to take further? All they gave us for our €1500 was a half hour of their time. I understand contracts are there for a reason but surely over a years notice would mean something, we re distraught to say the least considering how accommodating all of our other suppliers for the day have been. I would really appreciate any advice

    Many thanks


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    #2
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Technically, if it says it's non-refundable, then that's that. You paid, and it's gone unless you use that date or another.

    But, on the other side of things, if you give them that much notice, and put your case to them directly, politely, they may be generous and refund you or at least give you a partial refund.

    Yes, contracts are in place, and you do need to understand what the deposit is for. Unless there is a specific clause for a refund, then you are at their mercy.

    Best of luck.


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    #3
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    The deposit is non refundable, end of.

    Lesson learned.


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    #4
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    For wedding photographers it is customary not to refund. I can be nearly impossible to resell a date, the best you could ask, assuming they have refused a refund already, if you could find them a suitable couple to take your place and you keep [their] deposit.


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    #5
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    If the date is so easy to sell, sell it.


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    #6
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    You are not legally* entitled to have the deposit returned, so you will have to appeal to their goodwill.

    *subject to the terms of your contract, naturally.


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    #7
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    Oryx wrote: »
    You are not legally entitled to have the deposit returned, so you will have to appeal to their goodwill.

    Ah see, now you're making sweeping statement that just make be want to challenge them. :) Unless of course you've made a through search of the legal authorities on the matter at which point I stand to be corrected.

    One possible avenue is the that the contract is a standard form contract and the term may be unfair. I'm not in a position to give the OP an opinion on that and in the first instance, an appeal to goodwill is certainly the best option as would be selling the venue on if the OP is so convinced that it will rebook.

    Linky

    Not having a copy of the contract doesn't help, get a copy from the venue ASAP.


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    #8
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    LowKeyReturn wrote: »
    Ah see, now you're making sweeping statement that just make be want to challenge them. :) Unless of course you've made a through search of the legal authorities on the matter at which point I stand to be corrected.

    One possible avenue is the that the contract is a standard form contract and the term may be unfair. I'm not in a position to give the OP an opinion on that and in the first instance, an appeal to goodwill is certainly the best option as would be selling the venue on if the OP is so convinced that it will rebook.

    Linky

    Not having a copy of the contract doesn't help, get a copy from the venue ASAP.
    The op said it was stated as non refundable. They don't have a copy of the contract. We can only give general advice here, and generally, deposits, unless agreed otherwise, are non refundable. So going on what has been said here, they need to plead their case to the supplier.

    In some cases I believe, someone who has placed a deposit can be pursued for the balance, most people don't realise this.

    You're getting into the nitty gritty of the situation, and the small print of their contract, and I would think that would require someone legal to look over the contract for them, if they can get a copy.


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    #9
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    Oryx wrote: »
    The op said it was stated as non refundable. They don't have a copy of the contract. We can only give general advice here, and generally, deposits, unless agreed otherwise, are non refundable. So going on what has been said here, they need to plead their case to the supplier.

    In some cases I believe, someone who has placed a deposit can be pursued for the balance, most people don't realise this.

    You're getting into the nitty gritty of the situation, and the small print of their contract, and I would think that would require someone legal to look over the contract for them, if they can get a copy.

    Granted but I do refer you to word four of your original post, the other 'L-word'. :P


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    #10
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    LowKeyReturn wrote: »
    Granted but I do refer you to word four of your original post, the other 'L-word'. :P
    Happy now?:P


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    #11
    Jack Kyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭Jack Kyle


    You're not entitled to a refund.

    Forget about it and don't embarrass yourself.


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    #12
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    If they hold your deposit, then they should also hold the date available for you. That gives you a basis for negotiation. Suggest to the venue that if they can get another booking, you will release them from their obligation to you in exchange for the return of a good chunk of your deposit.


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    #13
    Jack Kyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭Jack Kyle


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    If they hold your deposit, then they should also hold the date available for you. That gives you a basis for negotiation. Suggest to the venue that if they can get another booking, you will release them from their obligation to you in exchange for the return of a good chunk of your deposit.

    Oh Jesus Christ.

    Now we're into blackmail.

    The OP agreed to pay a non refundable deposit.


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    #14
    LowKeyReturn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭LowKeyReturn


    Jack Kyle wrote: »
    Oh Jesus Christ.

    Now we're into blackmail.

    The OP agreed to pay a non refundable deposit.

    I suggest you look up the definition of blackmail beyond bands of roving Scots. The rules of contract law are there to protect both parties and ensure some level of fairness. If the venue resell the date then it's only right the OP gets the deposit back less some small reduction for costs.


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    #15
    tatli_lokma
    Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭tatli_lokma


    Try posting your date and venue on the weddings and marriage forum. If it is a Saturday in a popular venue you would have had good chance of selling the date. Some other couple gets a Saturday without having to wait 2 years and you get your deposit back. Win-win!!


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A friend of mine had to cancel her wedding - much closer to the date. The hotel were lovely about it and told her that if they could get another booking, she would get her deposit back. Ask them if that's an option? If they sell your date, can you please be refunded, even at a loss of a 20% admin fee perhaps.


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    #17
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,279 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Had you confirmed numbers ? Was numbers and the final price on the contract. As your not going to get it back tell them that the final number is 4 people, enjoy yourselves..


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    #18
    Homeless11
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Homeless11


    Thanks for all the replies. I would have thought that Deposits are down payments made on renderable services. If the services is not rendered the money must legally be returned. The exception being if it is close enough to the date that the vendor has started paying for items. Will contact them today and request a copy of the contract but surely they cannot keep the deposit if they sell the date as they are not out of pocket? And yes I am confident they will have no trouble selling it as we had tried to move our date and all dates requested were booked, so we can't transfer to a date of our choice

    Thanks


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    #19
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    ted1 wrote: »
    Had you confirmed numbers ? Was numbers and the final price on the contract. As your not going to get it back tell them that the final number is 4 people, enjoy yourselves..

    Every venue will have minimum numbers of 80/90+ for a Saturday during the summer months.


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    #20
    Homeless11
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Homeless11


    Also when we called them to say we had to cancel and asked if our deposit was refundable the girl said "I'll look into it, send of an email to confirm cancellation" which we did and no contact for a week, then arrives a registered letter, seriously thought it was the deposit, say our date was cancelled and deposit non refundable. So we neither have the date nor deposit?


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    #21
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,279 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Every venue will have minimum numbers of 80/90+ for a Saturday during the summer months.

    No as not all venues can take those numbers and it may not be in the contract


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    #22
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    That registered letter trick is very mean and nasty, I suggest getting tough and playing nasty.

    Book the hotel restaurant for the original scheduled date with a group of say 10 (approx value of 1500), round up some family, friends and maybe your new partner in life and have a good meal out and drink at the establishment, at the end of the night slap down the 1500 docket as payment and thanks very much.

    Be brazen do not bring any cash or credit cards with you and get some value out of it.


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    #23
    Jack Kyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭Jack Kyle


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    That registered letter trick is very mean and nasty, I suggest getting tough and playing nasty.

    Book the hotel restaurant for the original scheduled date with a group of say 10 (approx value of 1500), round up some family, friends and maybe your new partner in life and have a good meal out and drink at the establishment, at the end of the night slap down the 1500 docket as payment and thanks very much.

    Be brazen do not bring any cash or credit cards with you and get some value out of it.

    Ignore this ludicrous advice unless behaving like a scumbag is your thing.

    People seem to be missing the point. The OP knew that the deposit was non refundable. Whether the hotel can sell the date or not is irrelevant. Making deposits non redundable discourages tyre kickers and gives the hotel a bit of protection.

    Ignore the keyword warriors, OP, and do the decent thing and move on.


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    #24
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    Why did the hotel not give a straight answer when asked whether the deposit was not refundable, then when her back was turned dispatch a registered letter cancelling the date and keeping the deposit, is that not scumbag form?


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    #25
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    They could have offered 20% back or a meal in the restaurant but nothing except a registered letter???


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    #26
    Jack Kyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭Jack Kyle


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Why did the hotel not give a straight answer when asked whether the deposit was not refundable, then when her back was turned dispatch a registered letter cancelling the date and keeping the deposit, is that not scumbag form?

    Sorry, am I missing something? It says on the booking form that the deposit is non refundable. The OP just said "pretty please" and the hotel have declined.

    I fully agree with deposits being non refundable. It weeds out the messers and lessens the administrative burden for the hotel.


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    #27
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    There is an issue of fairness involved. As OP cancelled very early, and the venue has an excellent chance of re-selling the date, pocketing the entire deposit seems unfair. It would be different if the cancellation was within, say, 3-6 months in advance.

    It is worth considering whether SI 27/1995 applies. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html


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    #28
    Jack Kyle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 442 ✭✭Jack Kyle


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    There is an issue of fairness involved. As OP cancelled very early, and the venue has an excellent chance of re-selling the date, pocketing the entire deposit seems unfair. It would be different if the cancellation was within, say, 3-6 months in advance.

    It is worth considering whether SI 27/1995 applies. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/en/si/0027.html

    The OP went into this with her eyes open. It said explicitly on the booking form that the deposit was non refundable. Whether they can re-sell the date or not is irrelevant. What if in the interim the hotel has had to turn away a far bigger and more lucrative wedding?

    There are far too many instances of hidden charges, scams and ripoffs. Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it.

    The OP's behaviour is embarrassing in my view.


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    #29
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    honestly op take it as lesson learned, if you should ever be putting a deposit on another venue/date use this as one of the things to renegotiate,

    we refused point blank to put down €1500 as a deposit with our venue, we told them 2 years beforehand was a ridiculous timescale for that size deposit,


    in the end €500 sealed the date, with €500 six months beforehand, and €500 the week before, and they agreed to this, so next time try and negotiate if they have a non-refundable deposit argument.

    this time round i think you need to take it on the chin and move on.


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    #30
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Jack Kyle wrote: »
    ... Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it....
    Your dedication to telling OP to suck up a loss of €1500 is impressive.

    It is worth asking if "what it says on the tin" (which, seemingly, was not even communicated in writing to OP) is an unfair term.


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    #31
    Homeless11
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Homeless11


    Jack Kyle wrote: »
    The OP went into this with her eyes open. It said explicitly on the booking form that the deposit was non refundable. Whether they can re-sell the date or not is irrelevant. What if in the interim the hotel has had to turn away a far bigger and more lucrative wedding?

    There are far too many instances of hidden charges, scams and ripoffs. Here we have a business doing exactly what it says on the tin and they're getting grief for it.

    The OP's behaviour is embarrassing in my view.


    Why is my behaviour embarrassing? I'm simply asking advice not acting on it


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