Landlord/Estate Agent threatening to change locks.

LickiRake · 09-08-2013 11:37pm #1

Hey, two of my friends and myself are renting a 4 bedroom house. Today the Agent dealing with us arrived unannounced, entered the house without permission and told the two of us that were present that 1/3 of the rent had not been payed for the months of June and July. The two of us present said we were payed up but couldn't vouch for the guy not present. He then declared that if it wasn't payed by Monday, he would be back down to change the locks and anything inside would be returned once the owed money was payed and the remaining rent payed, as our lease ends on August 24th.

The other guy returned and assured us he was up to date on rent. We text and left messages on the agents phone requesting to see the bank statements for the period we were living there to see the dates in which the rent wasn't payed, as we had never once received receipts as the money was lodged directly into his account and we foolishly never thought to keep records. We also have no rent book, which I only discovered today was something we were supposed to be provided with. I also discovered that the house in not registered with the PRTB. But I'm not sure what that means.

I'm just wondering is this legal? Whats the proper procedure here for rent that's in arrears if that is the case? He has not replayed to us, and wont answer our phone calls. I'm really stumped as to what to do, because I have no where else to go, so any help would be appreciated!

djimi · 09-08-2013 11:41pm

If he changes the locks take him to the PRTB where you will almost certainly get a nice payout for your troubles.

LickiRake · 09-08-2013 11:46pm

I will look into that,cheers! But because the house is not registered does that affect the situation in anyway? We were leaving at the end of the lease anyway so i don't understand the action being taken. I'm completely flabergasted.

djimi · 09-08-2013 11:48pm

Prtb registration doesn't affect you at all. Might mean a larger fine for landlord though.

LickiRake · 09-08-2013 11:49pm

So were still covered by any laws that cover this situation?

Knob Longman · 09-08-2013 11:52pm

Go to Threshold about it, Too many rogue landlords out there.

LickiRake · 09-08-2013 11:56pm

This is also the first time we have heard from anyone since we payed our deposit over a year ago, like does it sound like hes trying to steal money from us, before our lease runs up? But cheers for the help, pointed me in the right directions.

foggy_lad · 10-08-2013 7:33am

LickiRake wrote: »

This is also the first time we have heard from anyone since we payed our deposit over a year ago, like does it sound like hes trying to steal money from us, before our lease runs up? But cheers for the help, pointed me in the right directions.

You can take action even when the landlord is not registered with the PRTB.. You should start the complaint process now as the agent entered your home illegally without giving prior notice. They will be acting illegally by changing the locks as they have not given proper notice of arrears. Aand must evict ye before they can enter or break into the property.

The agent could be working up to trying to keep your deposits claiming ye owed money.

If the money was paid in by all three of ye then ye should have receipts from the bank to show the date payment was made. How well do you trust the third person who claims to jave paid?

dissed doc · 10-08-2013 7:40am

Perhaps your flatmate is lying and hasn't paid the rent; this would explain why the estate said that the rent wasn't paid since June.

Your own bank statement is the the receipt and rent book. It is evidence that the rent has been paid. If you want to confirm it has been paid, your flatmate can print it out from online banking showing the specific transfers.

the world wonders · 10-08-2013 7:42am

LickiRake wrote: »

Whats the proper procedure here for rent that's in arrears if that is the case?

Your landlord's behaviour is completely illegal. Here is the proper procedure for rent arrears, as laid down by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004:

The landlord must issue you a written notice of arrears giving you 14 days to pay up.
if the rent is still unpaid after the 14 days the landlord may issue you with a written notice of termination giving you 28 days to leave.

So that's 14+28=42 days minimum to evict a tenant for unpaid rent.

If the agent does change your locks on Monday then you are in line for a five-figure compensation payout from the PRTB.

strandsman · 10-08-2013 7:43am

Theres two sides to every story. The agent/landlord is not going risk legal action over some unpaid rent. There's more to this I'd say

LickiRake wrote: »

Hey, two of my friends and myself are renting a 4 bedroom house. Today the Agent dealing with us arrived unannounced, entered the house without permission and told the two of us that were present that 1/3 of the rent had not been payed for the months of June and July. The two of us present said we were payed up but couldn't vouch for the guy not present. He then declared that if it wasn't payed by Monday, he would be back down to change the locks and anything inside would be returned once the owed money was payed and the remaining rent payed, as our lease ends on August 24th.

The other guy returned and assured us he was up to date on rent. We text and left messages on the agents phone requesting to see the bank statements for the period we were living there to see the dates in which the rent wasn't payed, as we had never once received receipts as the money was lodged directly into his account and we foolishly never thought to keep records. We also have no rent book, which I only discovered today was something we were supposed to be provided with. I also discovered that the house in not registered with the PRTB. But I'm not sure what that means.

I'm just wondering is this legal? Whats the proper procedure here for rent that's in arrears if that is the case? He has not replayed to us, and wont answer our phone calls. I'm really stumped as to what to do, because I have no where else to go, so any help would be appreciated!

dissed doc · 10-08-2013 7:45am

the world wonders wrote: »

Your landlord's behaviour is completely illegal. Here is the proper procedure for rent arrears, as laid down by the Residential Tenancies Act 2004:
The landlord must issue you a written notice of arrears giving you 14 days to pay up.

if the rent is still unpaid after the 14 days the landlord may issue you with a written notice of termination giving you 28 days to leave.

So that's 14+28=42 days minimum to evict a tenant for unpaid rent.

If the agent does change your locks on Monday then you are in line for a five-figure compensation payout from the PRTB.

Actually that is where the landlord wishes to terminate a tenancy because of failure to pay rent. If they haven't issued formal notice then they don't wish to terminate the tenancy right? SO could sue for the unpaid amount.

ted1 · 10-08-2013 7:50am

I'd hazard a guess and say that one of you guys hasn't paid. If its a direct debit it may have left a bank account and being retuned due to lack if funds. You'll need. To look at whole statements not just 1 line

strandsman · 10-08-2013 8:03am

+1

ted1 wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess and say that one of you guys hasn't paid. If its a direct debit it may have left a bank account and being retuned due to lack if funds. You'll need. To look at whole statements not just 1 line

hfallada · 10-08-2013 9:07am

Well its extremely unprofessional
Of the the agents part not too notice the "unpaid rent" until now and think they can essitential evict you immediately. A majority of landlords don't use rent books any more because of electronic transfers are the norm. They are no longer going to the house to pick up cash and the rent book was essitential your proof of payment.

I wouldnt be in a hurry to pay a last months rent with that agent

Lantus · 10-08-2013 9:11am

LickiRake wrote: »

Hey, two of my friends and myself are renting a 4 bedroom house. Today the Agent dealing with us arrived unannounced, entered the house without permission and told the two of us that were present that 1/3 of the rent had not been payed for the months of June and July. The two of us present said we were payed up but couldn't vouch for the guy not present. He then declared that if it wasn't payed by Monday, he would be back down to change the locks and anything inside would be returned once the owed money was payed and the remaining rent payed, as our lease ends on August 24th.

The other guy returned and assured us he was up to date on rent. We text and left messages on the agents phone requesting to see the bank statements for the period we were living there to see the dates in which the rent wasn't payed, as we had never once received receipts as the money was lodged directly into his account and we foolishly never thought to keep records. We also have no rent book, which I only discovered today was something we were supposed to be provided with. I also discovered that the house in not registered with the PRTB. But I'm not sure what that means.

I'm just wondering is this legal? Whats the proper procedure here for rent that's in arrears if that is the case? He has not replayed to us, and wont answer our phone calls. I'm really stumped as to what to do, because I have no where else to go, so any help would be appreciated!

The other flat mate must provide you with some evidence that he has paid. If as you say it has been via bank lodgement then there is a verifiable paper trail that can easily prove it. If he refuses or gets angry at you then there's some evidence that he's possibly lying.

As others have said I would write to the agent and clarify some of things said below and the fact that the property is not PRTB registered and that any action against you will be met with a case taken against the Landlord.

While people may assume that the landlord wont do anything without full legal assurance many people are completely ignorant of the law and when an angry landlord starts shouting people just react rather than think. The landlord is hoping you will capitulate and that there will be no comeback.

Entering the property without permission is also not on and you can refer the agent to the property services regulator.

Threshold can provide legal advice.

So, get all your payment evidence in order and hopefully it can be cleared up easily. If one of your members has failed to pay then get ready for a fight if they don't agree to ay up. You may all be jointly liable. Think about what pressure can be applied on your third renter if that can provide an answer.

djimi · 10-08-2013 9:21am

Lantus wrote: »

If one of your members has failed to pay then get ready for a fight if they don't agree to ay up. You may all be jointly liable. Think about what pressure can be applied on your third renter if that can provide an answer.

The bottom line is that assuming all three tenants are renting the house in its entirety (which is what appears to be happening) then they all owe the full rent; there is no such things as "my share" of the rent. How you divide it up between you is your own business, but ultimately the landlord expects the entirety to end up in their account each month, and if one tenant doesnt pay then its up to the other two to make up the difference, because they are all equally responsible for the entire amount.

OP you need to clear up this matter with the landlord and your housemates. Get statements from the landlord to verify that some of the rent has not been paid, the set about figuring out how has not paid. If you each pay seperately into the landlords account then it shouldnt be too difficult to determine who has not paid.

The rent issue aside however, there is the now bigger issue of the theatened eviction. If the landlord wants to evict, they must do so properly, as outlined by posters above. Talk of changing the locks is not helping their cause; if they know what they are doing then they will know not to do this, so you dont have to worry on that front. Until you recieve a written notice of rent arrears they are only blowing hot air and you can largely ignore them. If they do decide to change the locks then you can take them to the cleaners through the PRTB, who will take a very dim view of such action. Id be surprised if they dont already know this, but some people are stupid enough to need to learn such a lesson the hard way.

Do yourself a favour and get the rent issue sorted first though. Its your responsibility; even if you feel that you are fully paid up the reality is that if any of the rent is missing then you are all legally liable for it.

LickiRake · 10-08-2013 11:31am

Hey I appreciate all the helpful replies. The amount was lodged physically into the account each month and yes we did receive a receipt stating the amount that was lodged. Is it possible to ask the bank for another receipt? What confuses me is as a reference, when lodging the money, we use our name and house address, so the landlord should be able to pinpoint who hasn't paid, and we all pressure him to pay. Now i realize the landlord expects the whole amount to be lodged and does not care who's name is on it, but it would still be helpful for us too know, also our neighbors either side of us, told us they lodge money the same way and were told a couple months prior by the agent that someone living in the 5 houses they rent out, hasn't payed rent, which would make me assume the same account is used for all the houses to lodge there money, which would suggest bad book keeping. It's also important to note he told us to avoid direct debit when we first moved in. It just seems the agent went about this the wrong way, especially considering we are moving out in 14 days anyway, as our lease is up!

LickiRake · 10-08-2013 2:43pm

Just an update on this, the agent arrived today to the house next door, we asked to speak with him again to try sort out the issues, he was dismissive about everything, we called him on entering the house, not been registered landlord and our rights to 14 days notice to any arrears, he dismissed it all, told us to he does not f***ing care, and that he's changing the locks Monday. We told him we were going to take his reg and report it to the guards, and report him to the PRTb he scoffed and said, "g'wan report it to the guards, its a lovely reg" and drove off. Can the guards stop them from physically changing the locks?, because i really have no where to go or move my stuff, and I'm little shock up. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 10-08-2013 2:45pm

If he's threatening to lock your stuff in I'd start moving it somewhere else just in case.

LickiRake · 10-08-2013 2:50pm

I have no where to put it, nor the means to move it.

LickiRake · 10-08-2013 3:11pm

Also our landlord is this guy, I have just found out;

<snip>

djimi · 10-08-2013 3:42pm

To be honest, Id be inclined to let him change the locks. It will be one of the more expensive mistakes he makes in his life and you will (eventually) get a nice little cash windfall for your trouble. Theres not much you can do to stop him either way, short of hiring some big dudes to handle security until you leave!

fasttalkerchat · 10-08-2013 6:05pm

Either your friend is lying or the agent is trying to rip you off.
If you trust your friend I would call the guards and tell them what happened and diall 999 next time he arrives and have him prosecuted. You will be entitled to big compensation and have the right to protect yourself legally.

Victor · 10-08-2013 6:18pm

LickiRake wrote: »

Also our landlord is this guy, I have just found out;

<snip>

Please don't identify individuals in such circumstances.

Moderator

Drop down to the local Garda station, mention that the landlord / agent is threatening an illegal eviction on Monday and that you may need to call them on short notice. This is usually taken very seriously. Provide any details you can.

Can someone be there for the duration on Monday - and other days?

I would suggest you find a way to secure any valuables (cash, jewellery, computers, gadgets, college / official documents) somewhere other than the house.

Write to the landlord, express your surprise at the turn of events and lack of notice of any shortcomings. Ask for a statement of what has been paid, when and by who. Mention in the letter the trespass and threat made and that if any attempt is made to evict you, that you will involve the Garda and the PRTB.

It might be useful to take photos of your belongings and the property, especially dated ones. Try to have the place tidy and clean.

If you have decided to move out at the end of the lease, have you given notice?

LickiRake · 10-08-2013 8:14pm

Hey I appreciate all the help and unfortuanetly it appears the third guy did infact not pay his rent, I apologise for naming the guy and totally understand the agents fustration. He offered to settle all debts over a period of time to the agent, but he refused and stated unless he has it Monday, the locks are still to be changed. While I understand this is still an illegal evection and no notice has been given to settle arrears, I have a morally hard time disputing it, but again, I appreciate all the help given.

djimi · 10-08-2013 11:24pm

LickiRake wrote: »

Hey I appreciate all the help and unfortuanetly it appears the third guy did infact not pay his rent, I apologise for naming the guy and totally understand the agents fustration. He offered to settle all debts over a period of time to the agent, but he refused and stated unless he has it Monday, the locks are still to be changed. While I understand this is still an illegal evection and no notice has been given to settle arrears, I have a morally hard time disputing it, but again, I appreciate all the help given.

Dispute it. Whether or not you were in the wrong, there are still laws that he must follow, and if he intends to carry out an illegal eviction then he deserves everything he gets. A letting agent should know better, so if this clown wants to go renegade and make up his own rules then you are fully justified in taking a case against him.

Sligo1 · 12-08-2013 7:44pm

Hi OP

Did the LL come and change the locks in the end? Or did ye manage to sort it amicably?

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 19-08-2013 5:16pm

He's been locked out so he can't reply.

Moonbeam · 20-08-2013 1:13pm

How do you pay your rent?
Is the house rented as 3 rooms or 1 house?

allibastor · 23-08-2013 3:06pm

LickiRake wrote: »

Hey, two of my friends and myself are renting a 4 bedroom house. Today the Agent dealing with us arrived unannounced, entered the house without permission and told the two of us that were present that 1/3 of the rent had not been payed for the months of June and July. The two of us present said we were payed up but couldn't vouch for the guy not present. He then declared that if it wasn't payed by Monday, he would be back down to change the locks and anything inside would be returned once the owed money was payed and the remaining rent payed, as our lease ends on August 24th.

The other guy returned and assured us he was up to date on rent. We text and left messages on the agents phone requesting to see the bank statements for the period we were living there to see the dates in which the rent wasn't payed, as we had never once received receipts as the money was lodged directly into his account and we foolishly never thought to keep records. We also have no rent book, which I only discovered today was something we were supposed to be provided with. I also discovered that the house in not registered with the PRTB. But I'm not sure what that means.

I'm just wondering is this legal? Whats the proper procedure here for rent that's in arrears if that is the case? He has not replayed to us, and wont answer our phone calls. I'm really stumped as to what to do, because I have no where else to go, so any help would be appreciated!

I dont think a agent or landlord is able to turn up with out notice.

Also, how do you pay your rent, if it is by DD then all you need is to get the statement of all people there and show them.

Also as it is a house share the agent/landlord has to be able to organise seperate rental agreements. Unless you took the house in one lot as a group of friends.

let me know with a PM and I will be able to advise more.

Landlord/Estate Agent threatening to change locks.

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