How Loyal are you to your club

cgh

i'm currently a member of a golf club who have announced lately that they are in some deep financal trouble ( who's isnt right ) bu one of the suggested ways was to basical make up this shortfall was to ask members for a once of fee of €150 to help out with the finances.
failing this it will mean cutting back further on the green keeping staff ( 1 full time and another half time as it is ) the course is in good condidtion but it does take some work.
so for me as ive been a member for just over 10 years have some loyalty to the club. but if they increase the subs and add this once off fee it means that the sub will be close to €1000.
the thing is there are numerous clubs in the area that the sub is between €600 - €700. I personally think hiking the subs up will casue even more members to go.
what would you do?

gman127

It's going to depend mostly on members own financial situations really. I'm only in a club 2 years now and as much as I like the course and enjoy being a member there I would probably have to look elsewhere if the rates were hiked up.
Our course is also under pressure but the membership has actually dropped from €1,050 when I joined to €850 now in a bid to attract more members.
Surely trying to get members to support some fundraising initiatives would have more merit than asking for a once off payment from everyone.
Maybe even up the Comp entry at weekends from €5 to €6 could make that little bit of difference without putting people off.
Also when it gets made public knowledge that a course is under severe pressure it seems to me that it only does damage to the membership numbers. Current members start to keep an eye out elsewhere and prospective members are hesitant to join in case the course goes bust mid-year and they lose the value for their money.

ssbob

I suppose a couple of questions are relevant:

1. Is your club a private members club?
2. Is your club run by a committee or a dedicated Golf Manager?
3. Are the books of accounts open for viewing for all members to see?

Rippeditup

I agree with gman.. Making it public gets a response such as your own and overall impacts the revenue. Why not reduce membership and add to the total or add to the comp fees to get more revenue or even look at some fundraising competitions (opens etc with food included in the price to help get the food profiles also) there has to be more inventive ways of making the money rather than a blanket increase that will cause people to look at other options

GreeBo

Rippeditup wrote: »

I agree with gman.. Making it public gets a response such as your own and overall impacts the revenue. Why not reduce membership and add to the total or add to the comp fees to get more revenue or even look at some fundraising competitions (opens etc with food included in the price to help get the food profiles also) there has to be more inventive ways of making the money rather than a blanket increase that will cause people to look at other options

You cant not let the members know that the club is in financial difficulty, at least not in a members club, its *their* club.

Doing nothing will just result in the club fading away.

TheDoc

The above.

Our club have been very transparent in a plan that's months in development and going through the motions now.

Was asking for investors etc. And I think most will help out how they can. I love my club and course and I'd it shut tomorrow I'd be pretty "ugh" trying to pick another. Having played most of the clubs around my location nothing comes close in my opinion.

golfwallah

cgh wrote: »

i'm currently a member of a golf club who have announced lately that they are in some deep financal trouble ( who's isnt right ) bu one of the suggested ways was to basical make up this shortfall was to ask members for a once of fee of €150 to help out with the finances.
failing this it will mean cutting back further on the green keeping staff ( 1 full time and another half time as it is ) the course is in good condidtion but it does take some work.
so for me as ive been a member for just over 10 years have some loyalty to the club. but if they increase the subs and add this once off fee it means that the sub will be close to €1000.
the thing is there are numerous clubs in the area that the sub is between €600 - €700. I personally think hiking the subs up will casue even more members to go.
what would you do?

The impact that recession has on discretionary spending (such as golf, etc.) has been flagged for a long time now. Therefore, it would have been pretty obvious when setting membership rates at your last few AGMs, that there was a high likelihood of falling membership and reduced revenue – unless those running the club chose to ignore it and just carry on, hoping for the best.

It sounds to me that the biggest problem your club has is the ineffectual response of your committee, that didn’t want to see financial problems (until they are upon them), raise awareness among the membership or propose any solutions other than a “one off fee” or reductions in course standards.

The opportunities to increase revenues and cut costs in ways that won’t impact on the service offering for members are there. However, as Thomas Edison once said: “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.

Given your committee’s record on handling the recession in a very competitive market, just ask yourself these questions:
– Do you think this “one off fee” will be the last request for a bail out?
– How loyal is the committee to its members, when predictable financial problems are suddenly dropped on members out of the blue?
– Why are only 2 alternatives being put to members – reduce service or levy them €150?

As the man says, "you pays your money and you makes your choice".

sydneybound

Honest answer if my current club was in trouble which I know they arent, they make a small profit every year and the last time a mate looked at the accounts they had in the region of 250,000 in the bank for different course and clubhouse upgrade programmes, and imposed a substantial levy I'd tell them to stuff it and walk. If they asked me for a voluntary contribution I simply wouldn't give it as our fees have constantly gone up as membership has dropped with the economic situation and the age profile, so many are hitting the bucket! I only play at this club out of convenience. However that said I wouldn't see myself as a long term member and in a few years will more than likely move elsewhere. If this was my local club which I grew up playing and knew I would have a lifetime affiliation with I would pay whatever I financially could. Might have contradicted myself there but hope you get me.

realgolfgeek

I would personally move.

what's 150 euro from each member going to get ? An extra 3, 6, 9 months ?
If the club is asking for this money, they should also be stating exactly what this money is going to be used for, how long it will last them, and what is the plan to pay it back to the members if and when the club becomes financially stable.

Simply asking for 150 euro is just not good enough, and damn right cheeky IMO.

Addictedtogolf

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I would personally move.

what's 150 euro from each member going to get ? An extra 3, 6, 9 months ?
If the club is asking for this money, they should also be stating exactly what this money is going to be used for, how long it will last them, and what is the plan to pay it back to the members if and when the club becomes financially stable.

Simply asking for 150 euro is just not good enough, and damn right cheeky IMO.

Totally agree with the above. Its a short-term fix and if the club is losing money 150 per member wont change this in any way. Just keep them afloat a little longer.

GreeBo

150 could be all they need to avoid an overdraft which would save thousands.
my own club pays loads in bank fees due to an overdraft that's required to cover seasonal nature of income.
bottom line is unless they outline a plan and are transparent with the figures I'd be concerned.

that said, if I won the euro millions (which I didn't :-() I'd give my club a mill to guarantee no money worries in the future and allow them concentrate on keeping the place as a great course.

Rippeditup

GreeBo wrote: »

150 could be all they need to avoid an overdraft which would save thousands.
my own club pays loads in bank fees due to an overdraft that's required to cover seasonal nature of income.
bottom line is unless they outline a plan and are transparent with the figures I'd be concerned.

that said, if I won the euro millions (which I didn't :-() I'd give my club a mill to guarantee no money worries in the future and allow them concentrate on keeping the place as a great course.

If they reduced the astronomical fees by about 50% they could get some influx of quality members who would help the club. The €12k hello money is madness when the neighbors is €1k.

The club is great but they need to recruit beyond the same old members to get a bit of a cash injection (I would pay 6k tomorrow if they opened up slightly)

GreeBo

Rippeditup wrote: »

If they reduced the astronomical fees by about 50% they could get some influx of quality members who would help the club. The €12k hello money is madness when the neighbors is €1k.

The club is great but they need to recruit beyond the same old members to get a bit of a cash injection (I would pay 6k tomorrow if they opened up slightly)

what neighbors is 1k?
it would be silly to drop the fee when people are paying it, you aren't but plenty are.

the club is pretty much full, it doesn't want more members at the moment, the timesheet already is full every week, adding more people would just cause problems.

btw, the club doesn't have money problems, I was attempting to explain how the ops club could be using the 150.

Addictedtogolf

Rippeditup wrote: »

If they reduced the astronomical fees by about 50% they could get some influx of quality members who would help the club. The €12k hello money is madness when the neighbors is €1k.

The club is great but they need to recruit beyond the same old members to get a bit of a cash injection (I would pay 6k tomorrow if they opened up slightly)

What club is €12k hello?

bigtimecharlie

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

What club is €12k hello?

I presume it's Grange, where GreeBo is a member.

Rippeditup

GreeBo wrote: »

what neighbors is 1k?
it would be silly to drop the fee when people are paying it, you aren't but plenty are.

the club is pretty much full, it doesn't want more members at the moment, the timesheet already is full every week, adding more people would just cause problems.

btw, the club doesn't have money problems, I was attempting to explain how the ops club could be using the 150.

Stackstown is €1k which IMO is not as good a club but for the cash it is a massively more appealing option.

If they didn't want members then why have the membership options on the site? If they are getting loads of members fair enough and in the catchment areas then I suppose that is a possibility.

The current way of running a club is how a business with ongoing revenue streams is run and not a club who has majority of cash at a specific period of time in the year, financially it means the club is chasing its tale until jan/feb every year until subs are there while banks are happy for this (fees etc) it doesn't sound ideal for a club.

I am probably just bitter tbh as it would be ideal (5 min walk from my front door) but there is no way I am paying €12k hello money in this day and age. New house and baby aside it isn't a good investment for the future with the options in the vinicity

Rippeditup

bigtimecharlie wrote: »

I presume it's Grange, where GreeBo is a member.

Yup Grange GC

FixdePitchmark

Interesting topic.

I often wonder about the model that golf clubs were set up on, was it from a time when people were far more established financially in their early 30s / late 20s.

These days, it seems people are near 40 and over before they are financially secure. They are studying longer, travelling the world, marrying later, having kids later.

I also feel that the prestige of joining a golf club does not have the importance that was once placed on it. Sure, if you can join a club down the road on a near pay per go rate - it is not exactly as lofty as it once was. Also every pub in Dublin has a golf society - these pubs are across the full spectrum of society, they play most of the top clubs in the country.

I wonder has the age profile gone up joining clubs - with hello money - whilst a very small niche will be able to keep old structure, it seems it is gone for the most part.

It was a funny world and still is in places, but I think peoples needs and desires have changed.

It is like the way Ryanair removed the ceiling associated with flying, now you could be next to a CEO on a flight.

So - know little about it, just observations of a newcomer to club membership - oddly enough I paid hello money. I wanted the course 5 minutes away, sort of family / golf balance.

For Paws

If, as the OP infers his Annual Sub is €750 then One new member recruited equals 5 levies of €150.

Approx how many members are being asked to contribute €150
ie; what's the total needed to keep the Club going ?

Have the members been asked to recruit one new member each ?.
If only one member in 5 were successful the immediate finance needed would be found, and the overall membership income increased, thus decreasing the likelihood of members being levied again next year.

Has the Club cut costs to the minimum ?
eg; does the Club continue to enter teams in inter club competitions & incur attendant expenditure ?

These matters should be debated and decided upon at an EGM (extra-ordinary general meeting) of the membership, not by edict from the Committee.

golfwallah

For Paws wrote: »

These matters should be debated and decided upon at an EGM (extra-ordinary general meeting) of the membership, not by edict from the Committee.

Agreed, such matters should be debated and decided upon by the membership.

But better to have an informed debate, which requires clear communication on the issues - and judging by the limited set of options from the committee, this is not happening right now.

As regards holding an EGM - the club constitution usually specifies the conditions under which an EGM can be called (e.g. at the behest of the committee or by a specified number of members signing up to a request for it).

Russman

The idea of something like one in five members recruiting a new member is a good one, but in these times clubs are more likely to be losing 30/40 members a year which makes it a lot harder. I have no idea what club the Op is referring to so in fairness maybe it doesn't apply to them.

Its a constant debate/struggle for most clubs nowadays - how to maximise income from ever decreasing sources. The majority of clubs have already cut costs to the bone and are still finding it hard to survive.

I don't think it can be blamed on any one thing other than a broad "recession" heading. With emigration alone - if even 10% of those who emigrated in the last 3 years were golfers, how many clubs does that equate to ? There are simply to many clubs in Ireland and especially Dublin IMO. Ultimately clubs now have their selfish hats on and are really just hoping to survive longer than their neighbour so they can pick up some new recruits.

This leads to another (possibly unforeseen) issue - the different forms of memberships/deals that clubs have had to come up with. In my own club we picked up about 50 new members this year, partly because another club nearby went bust, but the majority came in as 5 day members (which is their right), but you basically need two "5 days" to replace every "full" who leaves - hard to get those kind of numbers if members are still leaving.

Where it all ends, who knows ? If the NAMA clubs were let go it might help stop the race to the bottom, but there's a danger that golf would be much less affordable and go back to its historically elitist roots - excessive hello money, high subs etc etc. Its a bit of a double edged sword.

Communication from committee to members is crucial but a lot of clubs have an "us and them" sort of vibe with that, which also needs to be addressed. I don't want to be all negative but even with all the healthy debate and innovative ideas in the world, I think for a given number of clubs there is simply no way to survive. As the Op refers to loyalty, the numbers of loyal club members are reducing and there is now a huge grouping of golfers who more or less go from one club to another each year, chasing the best deal for that year, which they're perfectly entitled to do, but it doesn't help clubs budget/plan. And also makes it hard to predict what clubs will go next when the music stops for them.

Apologies for the long winded post.

GreeBo

Rippeditup wrote: »

Stackstown is €1k which IMO is not as good a club but for the cash it is a massively more appealing option.

If they didn't want members then why have the membership options on the site? If they are getting loads of members fair enough and in the catchment areas then I suppose that is a possibility.

The current way of running a club is how a business with ongoing revenue streams is run and not a club who has majority of cash at a specific period of time in the year, financially it means the club is chasing its tale until jan/feb every year until subs are there while banks are happy for this (fees etc) it doesn't sound ideal for a club.

I am probably just bitter tbh as it would be ideal (5 min walk from my front door) but there is no way I am paying €12k hello money in this day and age. New house and baby aside it isn't a good investment for the future with the options in the vinicity

it's not closed for membership as there are some places but after the restructure recently w do not need new members financially.

it's more to do with seasonal green fees than subs actually.
the club doesn't want to have solid greenfees everyday, it's a members club abd we pay for the right to have it available to us. I can pretty much had down and play whenever I want. for example Sunday is a family day, it would be exceptional circumstances that the course wouldn't be available for casual golf all day.
I might be biased, I'm currently watching the pga from my couch apparently 800m from the 18th green :-)


over the years I reckon that's worth it to me over driving 30 mins away to somewhere cheaper, stackstown is close and also edmonstown but I'd rather Grange any day.
castle is the most comparable course and prices are similar, you price for the market you are going for.

Rippeditup

GreeBo wrote: »

it's not closed for membership as there are some places but after the restructure recently w do not need new members financially.

it's more to do with seasonal green fees than subs actually.
the club doesn't want to have solid greenfees everyday, it's a members club abd we pay for the right to have it available to us. I can pretty much had down and play whenever I want. for example Sunday is a family day, it would be exceptional circumstances that the course wouldn't be available for casual golf all day.
I might be biased, I'm currently watching the pga from my couch apparently 800m from the 18th green :-)


over the years I reckon that's worth it to me over driving 30 mins away to somewhere cheaper, stackstown is close and also edmonstown but I'd rather Grange any day.
castle is the most comparable course and prices are similar, you price for the market you are going for.

I know I am just jealous I just 6 weeks ago moved into one of the cottages across from the entry at the crossroads so I could punch SW into the course.

I am planning on seeing if I can negotiate a family membership as my partners uncle is a member so will try it as the practice ground alone is worth it.
My girlfriend would kill me if I forked out €12k

Almaviva

Russman wrote: »

Where it all ends, who knows ? If the NAMA clubs were let go it might help stop the race to the bottom, but there's a danger that golf would be much less affordable and go back to its historically elitist roots - excessive hello money, high subs etc etc. Its a bit of a double edged sword.

I only know (or guess) a few of them, but would have thought the the standard of most of the Nama courses is very goot and at the upper end of course standard in Ireland. So hardly a race to the bottom.

Its the members clubs, all scrambling for insufficient golfers to go around, that are preparing the nooses for their own necks, as they try to maintain standards that unfortunately they can no longer afford. At the moment, its seems to be declining standards rather than clubs going bust. So maybe the theory of the last few years that, yes, we have too many clubs for the golfing population on this island now so some some will go bust is incorrect - in fact what we have is a drop in standard of the marginal members clubs.

Russman

Almaviva wrote: »

I only know (or guess) a few of them, but would have thought the the standard of most of the Nama courses is very goot and at the upper end of course standard in Ireland. So hardly a race to the bottom.

Its the members clubs, all scrambling for insufficient golfers to go around, that are preparing the nooses for their own necks, as they try to maintain standards that unfortunately they can no longer afford. At the moment, its seems to be declining standards rather than clubs going bust. So maybe the theory of the last few years that, yes, we have too many clubs for the golfing population on this island now so some some will go bust is incorrect - in fact what we have is a drop in standard of the marginal members clubs.

What I meant was a race to the bottom in terms of green fees and membership subs. With such excellent courses now equally as affordable as most member owned courses, the traditional clubs/courses can't really compete.

I think the declining standards are as a result of fewer members, not the cause of members leaving. Obviously that's a generalisation and there will be exceptions, but in broad terms.

Very hard for a member owned club who have, for example, reduced their greens staff to maybe 3 or 4 people, to compete with a more modern high-end layout being subsidised by NAMA. Given the choice, any golfer who doesn't have a particular attachment/loyalty to a club will go for the bigger/better/more prestigious layout IMHO.

Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is open to debate of course.

GreeBo

Rippeditup wrote: »

I know I am just jealous I just 6 weeks ago moved into one of the cottages across from the entry at the crossroads so I could punch SW into the course.

I am planning on seeing if I can negotiate a family membership as my partners uncle is a member so will try it as the practice ground alone is worth it.
My girlfriend would kill me if I forked out €12k

a member can introduce a family member for half price, I'm afraid you might have to just marry her:p

Rippeditup

GreeBo wrote: »

a member can introduce a family member for half price, I'm afraid you might have to just marry her:p

Please don't add to the list as I am running out of excuses... Baby, House and potential discount on golf **** I am screwed

cgh

wow,

really good views and points here,

we have a EGM next week to discuss this.

as for cost savings, the bar and resturant are now francised out.

we did enter teams inot interclub comps, i played on the south leinster team myself, but what i found embarrising was the fact that no meals were provided for either the home or away team. we hadnt been told before the games started. i was gobsmacked. at least if i'd been told I'd have arranged for the guy opposite me to have a meal.

the club as always has clicks and club politics are rife. which club doesnt.

Why cant i just pay my yearly sub and enjoy my golf. is that too much to ask for????

golfwallah

cgh wrote: »

we have a EGM next week to discuss this.

as for cost savings, the bar and resturant are now francised out.

Good stuff - but you need to be careful re franchising the bar (compliance with Licencing Legislation)!

cgh wrote: »

we did enter teams inot interclub comps, i played on the south leinster team myself, but what i found embarrising was the fact that no meals were provided for either the home or away team. we hadnt been told before the games started. i was gobsmacked. at least if i'd been told I'd have arranged for the guy opposite me to have a meal.

This is down to communications and is easily fixed. When ordinary members don't know what is going on, sudden actions caused by lack of funds come as a shock. My experience is that committees fear that fewer members will re-join if the real economic situation and risks of member losses are openly discussed at AGMs. I know others will disagree, but I prefer openness, transparency, frequent communications and treating members as adults to committees keeping their cards close to their chests until there is a crisis.

cgh wrote: »

the club as always has clicks and club politics are rife. which club doesnt.

Indeed - but open communication and transparency on all matters means that every member has equal access to the facts - not just select groups, who know or think they know! "Information is power".

cgh wrote: »

Why cant i just pay my yearly sub and enjoy my golf. is that too much to ask for????

I guess because it's a club (member owned) - not a private business where only the proprietor has to concern him or herself with the business side of things. And being a member carries responsibilities as well as rights. This isn't a real problem in the good times but we are seeing now that it becomes a real issue in harder times. Anyway, whatever you folk decide - best of luck at the EGM.

golfwallah

cgh wrote: »

wow,

we have a EGM next week to discuss this.

Any update on what was decided at the EGM?

cpb

Without naming the club, based on the timing and info in the opening post , I am a member here as well . The meeting was not an egm, more of a information evening.
The committee is going ahead with some cost saving ideas and want to change the club Constitution so that the day to day running of the club is done by a five person committee as opposed to the current 16 member committee.
It was proposed that the change was to be put together and an a egm called for the members to vote on it.
The more immediate issue is cashflow and they are hoping that members paying next year subs early and the bank will help there.

bustercherry

cpb wrote: »

Without naming the club, based on the timing and info in the opening post , I am a member here as well . The meeting was not an egm, more of a information evening.
The committee is going ahead with some cost saving ideas and want to change the club Constitution so that the day to day running of the club is done by a five person committee as opposed to the current 16 member committee.
It was proposed that the change was to be put together and an a egm called for the members to vote on it.
The more immediate issue is cashflow and they are hoping that members paying next year subs early and the bank will help there.

That worked out well at South County... Oh wait

golfwallah

cpb wrote: »

Without naming the club, based on the timing and info in the opening post , I am a member here as well . The meeting was not an egm, more of a information evening.
The committee is going ahead with some cost saving ideas and want to change the club Constitution so that the day to day running of the club is done by a five person committee as opposed to the current 16 member committee.
It was proposed that the change was to be put together and an a egm called for the members to vote on it.
The more immediate issue is cashflow and they are hoping that members paying next year subs early and the bank will help there.

Good that you're doing something - although, I daresay, what the new committee does and how they do it are more important than who's on the committee ...... it's results that matter!

Almaviva

golfwallah wrote: »

Good that you're doing something - although, I daresay, what the new committee does and how they do it are more important than who's on the committee ...... it's results that matter!

Indeed. But its who is on the new committee that will determine the what and how they do it - so its the crucial step.

golfwallah

Almaviva wrote: »

Indeed. But its who is on the new committee that will determine the what and how they do it - so its the crucial step.

Just like golf, there are no pictures on a score card, it's the results that matter.

And, as in golf, there are no certainties but you've a fair chance of success if the players (committee) have the skills and motivation to get the job done.

If not, you'll end up with excuses instead of results.

GreeBo

Almaviva wrote: »

Indeed. But its who is on the new committee that will determine the what and how they do it - so its the crucial step.

Indeed, the problem with having volunteers do things is that you dont always get the best people (or even average people) and also they dont have that much to lose (in comparison to an employee)

Dtoffee

I have been a member in a club where the finances went askew and members were being approached. The problem I had was that no one was being held accountable, the spending on teams and functions continued unchallenged as the same clique looked after themselves. I asked questions like why were we spending money we did not have on lenghtening the course in order to try and make it a championship standard when the majority of members were mid to high handicappers who struggle off the back tees .... but nothing changed and eventually I left as heads were in the sand.

It still survives today, but has lost a lot more members and finally had to cut back on team / event spending as well as any notions of grandure.

To my mind, its all about value for money so I have no issues changing clubs if Im unhappy at the way its being run. I support my club by playing regularly and spending in the shop and clubhouse BUT will not bail out self inflicted losses.

For Paws

My own club, after years of procrastination, (a nicer way of saying sitting on their arse doing fcuk all) has finally introduced a method of paying the Annual Sub by installment. In addition to this members can 'lodge' payments, no matter how small, to the Club in advance - €20 here, €50 there etc, against their Annual Sub.
This 'small change' enables the Club to minimize it's Bank overdraft at a time when it's usually at it's highest.

These changes came with the election of a Committee member who had spent years working with a local Credit Union. Who would have believed it possible, eh ?

cgh

Yes as it turned out it wasnt really a EGM even though thats what it was mooted to be.
cash flow is the major problem and the comittee are going to put a list of measures in place ASAP to sort this out.

however some of these i think are going to make it worse.
they plan on increasing the levy on the Caterer (goodbye to caterer)
they plan on getting rid of the Pro's retainer (goodbye Pro)

as it is we had the captains prize this weekend and I have to say for the first time the course was in terrible condition, greens were bumpy and not cu properly, Pins were cut badly, bunkers a joke. I would have liked to think that the course would be at its best this weekend. alas no.

even asking for subs early is only going to delay the problem. it will only create the same issue this time next year.

I know that running a club at this time is not easy and hard decisions will have to be made.

lets see what comes back

realgolfgeek

cgh wrote: »

Yes as it turned out it wasnt really a EGM even though thats what it was mooted to be.
cash flow is the major problem and the comittee are going to put a list of measures in place ASAP to sort this out.

however some of these i think are going to make it worse.
they plan on increasing the levy on the Caterer (goodbye to caterer)
they plan on getting rid of the Pro's retainer (goodbye Pro)

as it is we had the captains prize this weekend and I have to say for the first time the course was in terrible condition, greens were bumpy and not cu properly, Pins were cut badly, bunkers a joke. I would have liked to think that the course would be at its best this weekend. alas no.

even asking for subs early is only going to delay the problem. it will only create the same issue this time next year.

I know that running a club at this time is not easy and hard decisions will have to be made.

lets see what comes back

By the sounds of it, I'd be looking at an alternative club rather than renewing and paying subs early !!!